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KMCO: Security Upon Arrival  
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Was wondering if any of our US members can shed some light on this procees.

We arrived in at 1630. We processed through INS (very slowly,one petty little gauletier didn't like the cross I put on my 7's and made me rewrite it.) Then we picked up our bags on a belt and passed through US Customs (after waiting 20 mins for the dispatcher to find the aircraft manifest documents,which were in the normal place in the cockpit as always).....all normal so far.

At this stage we had to put our checked in baggage on ANOTHER conveyor belt to be sent to the baggage reclaim area in arrivals. Then we went up an escalator to be greeted by a security screening area. ALL pax and crew had to undergo another full security search before being allowed into the terminal. Crew had bottles of water taken off them. (And yes I know the liquids rule but that refers to bringing it onboard a plane not into an airport) I do realise that we were going to minglw with departing pax but we had just come from a sterile area (the aircraft) Can someone please tell me the logic of this? Do the TSA at MCO not trust the security of other countries/airports? I finally left the terminal at 1800.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Its standard operting procedure for inbound international passengers to be rescreened prior to having the ability to conect to other flights and mingling with the general departing passenger population.

And this is not just as US procedure either -- happens at LHR, HKG, NRT just to mention a few places.

[Edited 2008-02-13 04:51:41]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

An airport where already-screened-departing and arriving passengers mix shows the airport passenger flows are not very optimized. Most big airports now manage to have separate flows thus avoiding this issue. For mid-sized airports that have grown substantially, this proves to be more difficult to achieve since the initial design of the terminal may not have taken this into consideration.
If I recall correctly, this happens at MCO because everyone must take the "train" from/to the gates to/from the main terminal so passenger flow separation is not that easy.


User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

I have never experienced this at LHR,although all my transits there have involved changing terminals. I do expect security when I try to connect to another flight after arrival but not purely to arrive at the airport. AMS has inbound and outbound pax mingling but they have screening at the boarding gate. I understand the theory behinf this but the blanket screening of all inbound pax seems to me an inefficient use of resources than could be used to just screen outbound pax.

User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1806 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
We arrived in at 1630. We processed through INS (very slowly,one petty little gauletier didn't like the cross I put on my 7's and made me rewrite it.)

Odd, I always do the same and it's never been an issue at all.

Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
Crew had bottles of water taken off them. (And yes I know the liquids rule but that refers to bringing it onboard a plane not into an airport)

No, it refers to entering a sterile area. Once in the sterile area you can purchase liquids and take them on the plane without difficulty. Stupid, yes, but not inconsistent.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

This is a particularly ridiculous system at certain US airports: Atlanta, Orlando, Cincinnati, and Cleveland come to mind.

Since US Customs is located in a sterile portion of the terminal, all arriving passengers must pass through a TSA checkpoint, even if they're not connecting to another flight.

It is an expensive, inconvenient, time-consuming, and labor-intensive arrangement. I remain amazed that this is still a common practice.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1797 times:



Quoting Bramble (Reply 3):
I have never experienced this at LHR,

Every time (a few times per year) I've been screened at LHR for several years now. Arrive T-3 connect in T-3 must head back to the large central departure lounge for screening, arrive T-3 connect to T-2 or T-1 must clear security at the flight connections center.

Quoting Bramble (Reply 3):
blanket screening of all inbound pax seems to me an inefficient use of resources than could be used to just screen outbound pax.

Actually its not bad at all -- generally there is a single screening facility just outside FIS if the terminal design is such that it dumps back into the departure concourses as MCO, IAD(midfeld facility), SEA etc... Does not seem like a waste to me.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAerLingus747 From Ireland, joined Apr 2006, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1773 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Its standard operting procedure for inbound international passengers to be rescreened prior to having the ability to conect to other flights and mingling with the general departing passenger population.

It cant be that standard.Ihave been through MCO three times from international flights, the first two times we had to do all that but when I went there in August we did the normal stuff picked are bags from the first belt and were just allowed to go up the escalator without dropping off are bags or getting rescreened.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

You must have arrived in Airside-4 which has a direct escalator link from customs to the AGT station for transfer to the main terminal for exit. However if you plan on connecting to another flight - you would have to clear security again at the main terminal.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1677 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
And this is not just as US procedure either -- happens at LHR, HKG,

What? No..

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Every time (a few times per year) I've been screened at LHR for several years now. Arrive T-3 connect in T-3 must head back to the large central departure lounge for screening, arrive T-3 connect to T-2 or T-1 must clear security at the flight connections center.

Yes, maybe YOU have to be screened, but you don't have to put your checked bag through a screening, per the OP.


User currently offlineLAXIntl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1638 times:



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 9):
checked bag through a screening

OP'er is a little confused. You only put your checked baggage on the belt if you dont want to carry it with you to the main terminal and the airport exit. Baggage travels via an underground to the baggage reclaim area.

From the Orlando Airport website --
"After clearing Immigration and Customs, proceed to the AGT (train) station. Airside 4 (Gates 60-99) now has an escalator directly from Customs to the AGT station. If you do not wish to take your checked baggage with you, you may place your bags on the baggage belt for transfer to the Main Terminal."
http://www.orlandoairports.net/arrive/arrive.htm



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting LAXIntl (Reply 10):

If you arrive at Airside 4 where most Intl. flts. seem to arrive, you can now take your bags with you and leave the sterile area via the AGT. I don't know if there is now a direct link - it used to be (around a month ago anyway) accomplished by members of the TSA forming a line bordered by ropes from the Intl. arrivals area to the AGT. Arriving PAX would then walk between the ropes across the terminal and board the AGT under watch of the TSA transiting to the main building. Perhaps they have now figured out some sort of direct access to the AGT from downstairs...been a month or so since I was at AS 4.

I did depart AS 1 the other day and they were still screening the arriving Intl. pax as the OP described. EI arrives at this AS so I'm guessing this is who the OP flew and why he still experienced this repetitive and time consuming treatment. Reading the above post again - I guess there is now an escalator they have popped thru on AS4 gates 60-99....

[Edited 2008-02-13 08:40:43]

User currently offlineDw9115 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 449 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1573 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
crew had to undergo another full security search before being allowed into the terminal. Crew had bottles of water taken off them.

That is strange that they would take bottles of water from the crew because they are exempt from the anything larger then 3.4oz and 100ml ban on liquids, gels, pastes and aerosol's.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23226 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1468 times:



Quoting Mats (Reply 5):
It is an expensive, inconvenient, time-consuming, and labor-intensive arrangement. I remain amazed that this is still a common practice.

The problem is that it's also expensive to rectify the problem, and at many of these airports (and you haven't listed all of them; MEM, PIT, JAX, and IIRC RDU are a few more), many of the passengers are connecting and would have to reclear security regardless. For the connecting passenger, it's arguably a better situation than at a place like ORD, where he must brave the security lines with all of the domestic passengers.

PDX also has such an arrangement and has actually solved the problem by providing a bus to the terminal for passengers. I'm unsure whether this is something they did after 9/11 and, if so, how much construction was required to make it work... perhaps a PDX local can help us on that point.

Of course the other way to solve this problem is by building a whole new international arrivals area, as STL did. The viability of this really depends on the airport; it's much harder at airports like PIT, CVG, ATL, and MCO where the gates are physically separated from the landside terminal.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1365 times:



Quoting LAXIntl (Reply 10):
OP'er is a little confused. You only put your checked baggage on the belt if you dont want to carry it with you to the main terminal and the airport exit. Baggage travels via an underground to the baggage reclaim area.

From the Orlando Airport website --
"After clearing Immigration and Customs, proceed to the AGT (train) station. Airside 4 (Gates 60-99) now has an escalator directly from Customs to the AGT station. If you do not wish to take your checked baggage with you, you may place your bags on the baggage belt for transfer to the Main Terminal."

Actualy I wouldn't have minded taking my bags with me but we were told by airport officials we HAD to put all checked in baggage on the second belt,we could take our carry on with us. Myself and 3 other crew members then had to wait 20 mins for our bags to arrive at the arrivals baggage reclaim.

Quoting Dw9115 (Reply 12):
That is strange that they would take bottles of water from the crew because they are exempt from the anything larger then 3.4oz and 100ml ban on liquids, gels, pastes and aerosol's.

While it is strange I was not going to argue. It was just an annoyance after the second most difficult flight (servicewise)of my carreer.


Thanks for the replies. Didn't realise that other airports in the US had these arrangements. Luckyily I manage to avoid these airports. Do what Dublin does- let them all mingle and Darwinian selection will let the smart ones make it out to arrivals/or their next flight.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this - I read pretty fast... but one of the reasons you have to go back through security (other than mixing with departing passengers) is that once you go through customs, you have had access to your checked luggage. So technically in your checked luggage you could have something that you are not allowed to have airside, so you are no longer 'sterile' eg: you can put a knife in your checked luggage, and you would have had access to it once you claim your bags to go through customs, before you re-deposit your bags (whether you will be going through security because the airport is designed poorly for the arriving passenger (ATL, MCO, etc) to get back to baggage claim), or if you are connecting to your next flight, in which case the design is convenient to you.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1326 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Every time (a few times per year) I've been screened at LHR for several years now. Arrive T-3 connect in T-3 must head back to the large central departure lounge for screening, arrive T-3 connect to T-2 or T-1 must clear security at the flight connections center.

Yeah, but that's because you wanted to connect. A lot of airports have need you to clear security again before getting on to a connecting flight. But the OP is talking about having to clear security etc simply to be able to leave the airport, which is pretty uncommon and very irritating. I have to do it at ATL all the time and everyone hates it. In addition to the hassle, you usually need at least 1 - 1.5 hours to be able to get from seat to airport exit. Ugh.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1318 times:



Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):
(very slowly,one petty little gauletier didn't like the cross I put on my 7's and made me rewrite it.)

Now that is really lame. I stopped correcting people's continental 7s in the third grade.

Quoting Bramble (Thread starter):

At this stage we had to put our checked in baggage on ANOTHER conveyor belt to be sent to the baggage reclaim area in arrivals. Then we went up an escalator to be greeted by a security screening area. ALL pax and crew had to undergo another full security search before being allowed into the terminal. Crew had bottles of water taken off them. (And yes I know the liquids rule but that refers to bringing it onboard a plane not into an airport) I do realise that we were going to minglw with departing pax but we had just come from a sterile area (the aircraft) Can someone please tell me the logic of this? Do the TSA at MCO not trust the security of other countries/airports?

The issue is that people have access to checked luggage, which can contain all sorts of banned items.

Quoting Mats (Reply 5):

Since US Customs is located in a sterile portion of the terminal, all arriving passengers must pass through a TSA checkpoint, even if they're not connecting to another flight.

That is just bad form. They need to have a separate customs exit.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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