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Possible Complete Power Loss In FBW A/c  
User currently offlineDubliftment From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

hi there,

since I couldn't find any info (it might have been discussed, though): has there been an A320 loosing all power recently and being forced to do an emergency landing? I was told there was, and that the landing was safe also. I'd be interested how an FBW configured a/c operates in that state. Which control surfaces are manually operable when losing all electrical power (due to engine shutdown and, lets say, a short circuit with the battery supply). Are non FBW a/c to be considered safer planes in that case?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2366 times:
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Wasn't there a BA 320 that had a total power loss some time back?

I'd search for it but by the time I find it there will be half a dozen links to the story!



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineReltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

I dont fly airbuses but I did fly F-16s and the plane had 5 different electrical sources for the FBW controls. The last was(no kidding) D cell size batteries . They were located near the controls they powered and when they were your last hope. 30 min of power I think. I am sure the frenchies have multiple redundant systems .


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User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2313 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 1):
Wasn't there a BA 320 that had a total power loss some time back?

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly Andz there was a BA 320 that had a total power loss above Budapest for a few minutes.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Maybe the system was infected with the "Boeing" virus ??  Silly

Leo Big grin



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2113 times:



Quoting Dubliftment (Thread starter):
has there been an A320 loosing all power recently and being forced to do an emergency landing? I was told there was, and that the landing was safe also. I'd be interested how an FBW configured a/c operates in that state.

You need to be a little careful about the phrase "losing all power." It most often applies to failure of the engines to provide thrust. The BA777 that crashed lost all power, but all the electronics were working just fine. For any FBW airliner, loss of all electrical power requires simultaneous loss of:
-both main engines
-the APU
-the RAT
-the battery

To my knowledge, no airplane has ever lost all four at the same time.

Tom.


User currently offlineDubliftment From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1959 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 5):
To my knowledge, no airplane has ever lost all four at the same time.

thanks tom, thanks all. it seen that I have been misinformed. but it's actually fine that way.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Recently the Airbus I was sitting in went all dark ( still on ground) because some idiot disconnected the ground power with out the APU running!  duck  Big grin Big grin

User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1893 times:



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
Recently the Airbus I was sitting in went all dark ( still on ground) because some idiot disconnected the ground power with out the APU running!

On the ground isn't a problem. FL380 may be a bit more worrisome.  duck 

Remember take-offs are optional but landings are mandatory Big grin


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1852 times:



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
Recently the Airbus I was sitting in went all dark ( still on ground) because some idiot disconnected the ground power with out the APU running!

The hot battery bus should have still been live, so even that wouldn't be a total loss of electrical power, although it definitely gets disturbingly quiet when your main power gets cut off without warning.

Tom.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1794 times:



Quoting Dubliftment (Thread starter):

Are you sure that it was a BA A320? Not an Air Transat A330 (not so recent, 7 years ago)? Nonetheless, this was a FBW aircraft and it suffered a dual flame out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236


User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

It was a BA A319 the official report is here.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9708 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1681 times:



Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 4):
Maybe the system was infected with the "Boeing" virus ??

I'm not sure what you are implying, but the 787 will be the first Boeing airplane that will not have any manual reversion. The 777 does actually have cables running from the flight deck to select control surfaces. So a complete loss of electric power will still allow manual reversion with cables connected to hydraulic actuators.

The Airbus airplanes do not have this same capability. It is part of the fundamental differences between Airbus and Boeing.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
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