JerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 458 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3471 times:
In May 2007 I booked to fly Jersey / Gatwick / Bastia / Gatwick / Jersey in June 2008, under a single booking reference with British Airways. The Gatwick / Bastia sectors were to be flown by GB Airways with BA flight numbers, under a BA franchise agreement.
GB Airways was subsequently purchased by Easyjet, but as Easyjet are flying GB Airways’ summer schedule from Gatwick, I thought that the Gatwick / Bastia sectors of this booking would simply transfer to Easyjet flight numbers.
I now understand from BA that that would have been the case had I booked the Jersey / Gatwick return and the Gatwick / Bastia return as two separate transactions. But where there are multiple sectors on a single booking reference involving GB Airways flights, BA have taken a commercial decision NOT to re-book on the same flights now to be flown by Easyjet, but to offer “alternative carriers” instead. They “regret” that in the case of flights to Bastia, they have no alternative to offer. So I have to accept a refund, absorb any cancellation fee on booked accommodation, and re-book a new holiday from scratch at probably a much higher cost.
Is this a fair policy? I don’t think so. Has anyone else on this Forum had the same experience?
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2880 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3411 times:
I think you will find, even though British Airways are codesharing these flights with easyJet, it is not willing to carry passengers with connecting flights and guarantee these connections...
Im not trying to be rude but I really do not see the issue, with a bit of forward planning don't let the airlines ruin your holiday!
If you do some digging around you can still get to Bastia, but it may be a little more inconvenient as you will need to recheck your luggage at LGW and a bit more waiting around. There is also the risk of getting connecting flights with LCC, but I think it is perfectly doable and should not cancel your holiday... You may even save some money travelling with the LCC's...
I am not sure when in May you are travelling but there is only one flight a week with easyJet so I have used Sun 11th May as an example and returning on the 18th May
With easyJet's Bastia flight timed in the middle of the day, connections to and from Jersey should not be an issue...
BA do have some better timed flights between JER-LGW but these are quite a bit more, and the shorter connection you leave yourselves the greater risk of being unable to recover from a delay...
Also if you book with easyJet before the Monday you can get a further £10 off the above prices on their sectors, by typing in "LOVE2008" in the promotion codes section as you go through the booking!
(If you want any more assistance, drop me a line!)
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2880 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3363 times:
Just noticed too that ThomsonFly also fly to Corsica and have a better choice of airports on the island, depending on where you are staying...
Ajaccio
Bastia
Calvi
Figari
They all depart on Sundays from LGW, but are early morning flights departing between 6am and 8am, so likely to mean a stop over night at LGW at a local hotel. These are prices around the £130 mark return.
Bastia is also flown from Bristol and Birmingham with ThomsonFly on Sundays and maybe quicker and easier connect, as I know BHX has fare few daily flights to Jersey too...
Rdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3298 times:
Just a comment from a travel agent. If you had booked the holiday with a tour operator , such a Cadogan, who would have been able to book the flights and the hotel as one, then the tour operator would have the responsibility for your travel and also all the monies paid would have been safeguarded. This is the problem when you "" do it yourself" and are left high and dry when there is a flight change or the hotel says they cannot accept you after all!
JerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 458 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3012 times:
My issue is with BA's policy.
Why can they not simply dis-aggregate my multi-sector booking into separate Jersey / Gatwick which they continue to fly, and Gatwick / Bastia which they transfer to Easyjet?
VSFLYER747400 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2943 times:
Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 5): What I want to know is How did you book your flights 13months in advance???
BA's booking system only allows you to book 11months in advance!
I wondered this as well, but BA's booking system actually allows you to book up to 355 days in advance, I just tested it and shows flight availability up to 04 feb 2009.
Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
Sketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2876 times:
Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 6): but BA's booking system actually allows you to book up to 355 days in advance, I just tested it and shows flight availability up to 04 feb 2009.
Your absolutely correct. I just assumed that he had made the booking on BA.com.
Why can they not simply dis-aggregate my multi-sector booking into separate Jersey / Gatwick which they continue to fly, and Gatwick / Bastia which they transfer to Easyjet?
As I stated it previously, this is because easyJet are a point to point airline and will not accept responsibility for connecting flights... Due to this, BA cannot honour any bookings with a connecting flight onto a flight now operating with easyJet and have to simply cancel the booking.
I appreciate the way you have been treated is very poor, but there is no point festering and just plan forward for your break!
Sketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8): I appreciate the way you have been treated is very poor, but there is no point festering and just plan forward for your break!
BHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
I've been arguing with BA at varies levels about this for the past 6 weeks, on behalf of some very pissed off passengers. My arguement is the lack of a 3rd option for BA ticket holders on GB flights, which will become operated by U2, which should to allow passengers to transfer to BA operated flights. My reasons are as follows:
1. A commercial policy that permits refunds or transfer to a U2 operated flight is quite logical where there is no alternative. However, in the case of AGP and FAO where BA intended to operate this route after the GB takeover, it is grossly unfair that passengers are not allowed to do a direct transfer to BA. It is as though AGP and FAO were completely forgotten when this policy was formulated.
2. Passengers are BA ticket holders, not GB Airways ticket holders. There is no such thing as a GB Airways ticket. It should be honoured as such by BA.
3. If passengers wanted to fly U2, they would have bought a U2 ticket. They chose BA for a certain level of comfort and service. It is especially reprehensible that Club pax are being told to claim a refund and buy a new ticket. BA's choice of equipment for FAO is a 737-300/400, which often has a lot less Club seats available than the current aircraft used by GB. It is immoral to suggest that passengers pay up to another EUR 900 as the only booking class available is J, when they are holding an I or D ticket.
Frankly I'm getting nowhere. BA just doesn't give a s**t. It's the Wicked Willie mindset. But, I say to them, keep this crap up and see what happens to your bottom line in a couple of years.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
RDWooty has a good point. While most people are dumping the old travel agent and booking on line, the travel agent and tour op still offer protection in cases like this.
BALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
The whole problem is this EZY is a LCC and as such will not allow interline agreement with anyother airline.
BA are offering as full refund or the alternative to fly with EZY. In the case of Bastia there is no scheduled service from London to this Airport so the only option available is to offer a refund.
When you booked your ticket cdid you fully read the conditions of carriage?????
Probably not because no one ever does. It clearly states that the carrier is contracted to get you from point A to point B. It mentions nothing about the mode of transport. They could bus you if you want. Also the key words is flight is operated by gb airways this means if GB airways as it has been taken over has a limited responsibility.
Also have been on the rev management computer and there is no day throughout the summer that has a return in club of 900 Euro infact l have just booked FAO return in club in July and august £280. the 900 Euro is fully flexable and changeable. The price for this ticket would be £820. If you where to book the same ticket on the flight currently operated by GB it would cost you £1,184.20p
Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10): which often has a lot less Club seats available than the current aircraft used by GB.
Club configurations on a 737 can go up to 65 seats. More than enough. The current cabin configurations are based on the actual booked pax at the same time last year. Infact BA's 737's can carry more club pax than GB's A320/321's.
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
I deplore GB Airways for selling out to easyjet. Shows how much they value their upmarket holidaymakers. What about the quality tour op Cadogan who used heavily GT flights, will they now use EZY, 5 star hotels but no frills flights, seems an odd combo.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2477 times:
Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10): BA's choice of equipment for FAO is a 737-300/400, which often has a lot less Club seats available than the current aircraft used by GB.
It is particularly important for travel agents to understand the product that they are selling. All BA's short haul aircraft operating to continental Europe have leather covered convertible seats in the front of the cabin. These quickly adjust from a 3-2 club configuration to a 3-3 economy configuratrion.
In the case of BA's 734s the number of convertible seat rows is 13. This aircraft can therefore accomodate between a minimum of zero and a maximum of 65 Club Europe passengers.
With the ability to change the number of seats on the aircraft by up to 13 in order to meet customer demand, BA looks at the normal demand ratio between Club Europe and Economy seats on a particular flight on a particular route on a particular day of the week as a starting point for the theoretical configuration of the aircraft. This configuration is imput into its booking system. Then as booking commences they are able to adjust the aircraft configuration as detailed above to meet actual demand.
If a travel agent does not even realise that this is how BA operates I can understand how his customers can become
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2880 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 2375 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13): I deplore GB Airways for selling out to easyJet. Shows how much they value their upmarket holidaymakers. What about the quality tour op Cadogan who used heavily GT flights, will they now use EZY, 5 star hotels but no frills flights, seems an odd combo.
How dare GB Airways to put their company and business plan ahead of the "upmarket" passenger! Even if they were making a loss or struggling against the LCC market, it was their duty to "upmarket" passengers of England they still exist to fly them on holiday on loss making routes!
Thats what happens in the free market! Businesses come, go and are taken over...
I can't quote you where I read this or what survey it was, but over 45% percent of the leisure travellers, travelling with the likes of easyJet and Ryanair were from a middle class background with combined household salary of in excess of £60,000 per year.
Sorry to burst your little Bubble World - Orion737... But charter airlines and legacy carriers flying passengers from the UK to the Mediterranean is a thing of the past and a dieing industry! I wish you could accept this, instead of making irrelevant comments every time a thread like this or a charter thread comes up. Low Cost Carriers are the kings of these routes and is demonstrated by the overwhelming majority of passengers in the UK choosing to fly these routes.
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
With respect, we shall see. Many of GBs routes were to likes of Bastia, Figari, etc, not routes traditionally where every LCC heads for, these destinations arent the Alicante and Malaga brigade. Maybe the change will be quite a shock to the passengers booked on these GB Airways flights when they have to scramble for a seat at boarding time.
WexCan From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 100 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2256 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16): With respect, we shall see. Many of GBs routes were to likes of Bastia, Figari, etc, not routes traditionally where every LCC heads for, these destinations arent the Alicante and Malaga brigade.
The bucket and spade routes make up only a small part of the U2 network, in fairness, and I don't see any problems. Look at LRH - small French airport - they made a success out of that route.
JerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 458 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2207 times:
Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 12): The whole problem is this EZY is a LCC and as such will not allow interline agreement with anyother airline.
BA are offering as full refund or the alternative to fly with EZY. In the case of Bastia there is no scheduled service from London to this Airport so the only option available is to offer a refund.
EZY IS flying the old GB Bastia schedule for this summer at least - look on their website, I have re-booked with them after getting a refund from BA.
BA are NOT offering transfer to EZY flights where there is a multiple booking on one booking reference, supposedly to do with the lack of interlining as you describe.
My apparently simple question remains unanswered:
Why can they not simply dis-aggregate my multi-sector booking into separate Jersey / Gatwick which they continue to fly, and Gatwick / Bastia which they transfer to Easyjet? I would happily accept the lack of interlining.
BALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
This is a bit of a long post but will hopefully help answer a few of your questions.
A number of you are saying that when you booked the flight you booked a BA flight. WRONG!!!! You booked a flight using the British Airways booking tool BA.COM. There are several occasions that you are advised who is operating the flight and I will now prove it.
FIRSTLY: When you select your flight it clearly says in the flight, operating airline box the flight number e.g BA6880 and underneath GB Airways LTD. So the flight number is BA6880 operated by GB Airways
SECONDLY: When you get to the final price quote page before entering the pax details it clearly has the flight number and then not British Airways under it but GB Airways.
THIRDLY: Underneath the flight quote box in the about a flight box directly underneath the price quote the first thing it says is operated by GB Airways.
FOURTHLY: At the the bottom of the booking before entering the pax data you MUST tick a box that says I agree to the terms and conditions. Everyone has to ticket but how many have read it. Then above it, in the same box is the sentence:
I agree to be bound by the terms and conditions above, the fare conditions and the general conditions of carriage applicable to my flight(s).
If you where to actually read the conditions of carriage. You would know that when you click on the little box both the passenger and the airline in this case GB Airways become contractually bound by the conditions of carriage. Also that when you read the conditions of carriage you will find that GB Airways has its own set of separate conditions of carriage as do Comair LTD, Loganair , Sun Air of Scandinavia and flight operated by British Airways LTD.
In the conditions of carriage there is a paragraph under Franchisees that states:
Franchisees
For flights operated by one of our franchisees, the franchisees Conditions of Carriage will apply. These are almost identical to ours and you can find details of these either on their web site or by contacting the airline direct.
Franchises are:
* Comair Ltd
* GB Airways
* Loganair Ltd
* Sunair's General Conditions of Carriage
Then once you have made payment and your confirmation email is send it clearly says on it operated by GB Airways
Then on the day of travel yes you check in at a check in desk with a BA uniformed agent but so do Air Southwest and Malev but they arent part of BA. Once you receive your boarding cards it says towards the left either OPS BY GB AIRWAYS or OPERATED BY GB AIRWAYS.
Also In accordance with the franchise agreement any onboard announcements should be made as British Airways (and here are the key words) operated by GB Airways.
BA are not leaving you high and dry or lying to you everything is outlined in the Conditions of Carriage which is the legally binding contract between the airline at the customer. You wouldn't sign a new contract at work without reading it so why do you with the conditions of carriage?
Some airlines in the terms and conditions have clauses that you dont even know about until things go wrong. Such as the contract states they will get you from point A to point B in a safe and secure manor. Doesn't necessarily mean by air. As I found out on a FR flight from STN to PIK where we were bused.
Also when people complain about a flight e.g the IFE or Catering these are soft products not covered by the contract. The airline has not broken the contract it only says it will get you from point A to B nothing about the soft products. Even when it details to you online the onboard product underneath the product information it says something along the lines of
Whilst we will make every reasonable effort to provide you with the products listed above, for operational reasons, we may not be able to provide all of them.
SO ALWAYS READ THE CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE AS YOU OTHERWISE DONT HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON WITH THE AIRLINE........
If you book the flight with a travel agent it is up to them to tell you the flight is operated by a franchise and also to advise you to read the conditions of carriage fully.
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13): I deplore GB Airways for selling out to Easyjet. Shows how much they value their upmarket holidaymakers. What about the quality tour op Cadogan who used heavily GT flights, will they now use EZY, 5 star hotels but no frills flights, seems an odd combo.
Cadogan have already got new carriers to replace the destinations formerly operate by GB
APYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 751 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 20): FIRSTLY: When you select your flight it clearly says in the flight, operating airline box the flight number e.g BA6880 and underneath GB Airways LTD. So the flight number is BA6880 operated by GB Airways
SECONDLY: When you get to the final price quote page before entering the pax details it clearly has the flight number and then not British Airways under it but GB Airways.
THIRDLY: Underneath the flight quote box in the about a flight box directly underneath the price quote the first thing it says is operated by GB Airways.
FOURTHLY: At the the bottom of the booking before entering the pax data you MUST tick a box that says I agree to the terms and conditions. Everyone has to ticket but how many have read it. Then above it, in the same box is the sentence:
FiFTHLY - It often states you'll be served by friendly and attentive crew too
Which just goes to show how meaningless the promises on the website can be.
I agree with your point about always reading the conditions of carriage - its great to know just whats not in them as well as whats in them if you really want to go to town on airline complaining. But if any of you feel you are not recieving any of the 'soft' parts of the product on a frequent basis, i.e. where BA may be possibly be hiding behind the 'Operational Reasons clause' then you should write a little note to trading standards who seem to enjoy at the moment giving companies a kicking for offering things but often failing to provide them.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
BALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2091 times:
Quoting APYu (Reply 21): FiFTHLY - It often states you'll be served by friendly and attentive crew too
Well that wont happen on a GB flight. Lets face it all they have to look fwd to now is a life of orange and the word easy everywhere. It will be a bit of a climb down from Club Europe to Easykiosk Flog it!!!!!
Sketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1994 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13): I deplore GB Airways for selling out to easyjet. Shows how much they value their upmarket holidaymakers. What about the quality tour op Cadogan who used heavily GT flights, will they now use EZY, 5 star hotels but no frills flights, seems an odd combo.
Cadogan can now use BA, remember BA are to fly a lot of the routes previously operated by GB on their own metal
GT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1724 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 1912 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13): I deplore GB Airways for selling out to easyjet. Shows how much they value their upmarket holidaymakers. What about the quality tour op Cadogan who used heavily GT flights, will they now use EZY, 5 star hotels but no frills flights, seems an odd combo.
Get real!!! You are living in a world a decade in the past. GB Airways sold to Easyjet because.....
a) The BA franchise was not working for them and for GT to go it alone would have been commercial suicide.
b) Your fantastic BA was also unlikely to renew the franchise in 2010.
c) Competition from charters and LCC's were stong.
d) Fares were sometimes ludricrous.... £130 RTN MAN-PFO
e) As a result, 'upmarket' tourists were a minority. The upmarket tourist now tends to have a second home abroad and make good use of LCC's. Fact!
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