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Dreamliner One To Make First Flight  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23550 times:

According to an editorial on Fleetbuzz, the first 787, LN 1, should be making the first flight in late June - early July:

http://fleetbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/boeing-787-guidance/


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePianos101 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23466 times:

yeah, that's what they said. But who knows... will there be another delay? only time will tell. The biggest hurdle (relatively) is between now and 1st power-on. Once that happens, successfully, things should all fall into place...

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23354 times:

Agreed, in trder for this program to move forward they need to have a an on time and successful power on of the first 787.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinePlobax From France, joined Jan 2008, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23234 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):

when is 1st power-on scheduled ?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23220 times:

I think Fleetbuzz' editorial sees any Boeing news on the bright side. Bad news has no place in this editorials, other then on Airbus. It seems B777 wants to stay friends with Boeing, protecting his info source. Still I hope to see the 787 in the sky ASAP. I'm afraid another delay is not impossible..

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23176 times:



Quoting Plobax (Reply 3):
when is 1st power-on scheduled ?

Sometime around early April.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23178 times:

Wow, so it seems it will be one year between roll-out and first flight. I really hope that no further delays are announced on the first flight date, and that after it all the testing goes well, and no additional delays "a la" A380 are announced.

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 23025 times:

Well a lot of ground testing of 787 systems is going on right now so when the plane does fly a lot of the systems would have matured. Instead of finding issues during flight test they would find issues now and correct them.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 22856 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Well a lot of ground testing of 787 systems is going on right now so when the plane does fly a lot of the systems would have matured. Instead of finding issues during flight test they would find issues now and correct them.

Yeah, I think we can all agree that creating a new aircraft has changed dramatically over the last few decades. It used to be where the manufacturer would make an aircraft, then go fly it once it's built and see how it is. Next they would fix any problems and then start delivery. And with even earlier aircraft, the first one built wasn't even for the first customer, just a prototype. But now a days, with the advancement of computers and materials, the aircraft is put together and tested before it even leaves the ground, then after a short flight test time it's off to the customer.

I think in the future, this will seem like no big deal.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22554 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 8):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Well a lot of ground testing of 787 systems is going on right now so when the plane does fly a lot of the systems would have matured. Instead of finding issues during flight test they would find issues now and correct them.

Yeah, I think we can all agree that creating a new aircraft has changed dramatically over the last few decades. It used to be where the manufacturer would make an aircraft, then go fly it once it's built and see how it is. Next they would fix any problems and then start delivery. And with even earlier aircraft, the first one built wasn't even for the first customer, just a prototype. But now a days, with the advancement of computers and materials, the aircraft is put together and tested before it even leaves the ground, then after a short flight test time it's off to the customer.

I think in the future, this will seem like no big deal.

Yes creating a new aircraft has changed dramatically, the technology has not shortened the process, it has stretched it almost to breaking point.
The A380 proved that the time between 1st flight and 1st delivery can be far longer than in the past, and now the B787 is seeking to set a record between roll out and 1st flight.
Both manufacturers are having major problems interfacing between major structures, either because they are designed to different mod standards, or because of discrepancies/omissions in the build.
If anything the computerised quality systems have caused the problems, by removing practical thought and replacing it with box ticking. Everyone seems to be working to targets and signing things off at the due time, but as long as the audit trail looks good, who cares if the despatched structure mates with the next piece.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22513 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
I'm afraid another delay is not impossible..

There are still many hurdles to cross, and so that leaves many opportunities for further delay. I just hope Vought has gotten it's act together.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22441 times:

What's that now, 10 months late? Minimum? Boeing is really losing credibility by the quarter.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 22154 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
Both manufacturers are having major problems interfacing between major structures, either because they are designed to different mod standards, or because of discrepancies/omissions in the build.

So far, the 787 hasn't had any structural interface problems. When they did the wing/body join they actually noted that the tolerance was *way* better than any prior aircraft. The A380 was the same way...fuselage join went together extremely well, even though the sections were done by different factories in different locations.

There may be issues with the newer processes, but structural interface problems don't seem to be one of them.

Tom.


User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21335 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
What's that now, 10 months late? Minimum? Boeing is really losing credibility by the quarter.

Thanks!, but I still think everyone who has placed an order for the type are more than willing to wait for what should be a phenominal aircraft.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21122 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 6):
Wow, so it seems it will be one year between roll-out and first flight.

Just as a point of comparison - the 777 rolled out April 9 and was flying on June 14 1994 - just over 2 months. Maybe because the 787 uses new materials and a more highly distributed supply chain the comparison is not entirely fair.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 20932 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 14):
Just as a point of comparison - the 777 rolled out April 9 and was flying on June 14 1994 - just over 2 months.

Well, the true rollout will be in a couple months, so it will still be 2-3 months. Last July was a publicity stunt disguised as a rollout.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 20424 times:

The reason it was rolled out last July was because they wanted to do it on 7/8/07, I don't think it was anywhere near ready to go at that time, so comparing the time between rollout and first flight to the 777 is a little misleading.

User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 20194 times:

I didn' t know they finished a hull thought they only B787 excisting is the Mock - Up they towed out on 7/8/07  Smile

But honestly I am very excited about the development of the B787 we have seen a lot of mess with the A380 and the B787 is a new product. If i would need to place a bet I say the first flight will be by the end of third beginning of 4th quarter this year. But for some reason I am more excited about the B787 than I was during the A380 beginning.
Maybe it is because I see the 787 as the first Aircraft of a new generation.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2179 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 20156 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 6):
and no additional delays "a la" A380 are announced.

I can imagine that Boeing thoroughly looked into Airbus' delays and made sure to overcome similar problems that might have been found on the 787. Not that Airbus would make the detailed information available to the general public and Boeing in person, but professional journals probably documented these a lot. They also probably share a lot of common suppliers, and this may make the task easier for Boeing.
Now if Boeing struggles miserably like Airbus on problems similar to the A380, I'd say not good for them, and I believe they won't, but different new, yet unknown problems might arise, hopefully not...



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 20012 times:



Quoting Manfredj (Reply 13):


Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
What's that now, 10 months late? Minimum? Boeing is really losing credibility by the quarter.

Thanks!, but I still think everyone who has placed an order for the type are more than willing to wait for what should be a phenominal aircraft.

Most likely yes, but it would have been nice to hear the same thing during the A380 delays from a majority of the users on this forum.

Lufthansa411



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18508 times:



Quoting SQ325 (Reply 17):
Maybe it is because I see the 787 as the first Aircraft of a new generation.

This is a very true statement.

i'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed that they get it off the ground successfully by june-july  crossfingers 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3590 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18252 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
Both manufacturers are having major problems interfacing between major structures, either because they are designed to different mod standards, or because of discrepancies/omissions in the build.

So far, the 787 hasn't had any structural interface problems. When they did the wing/body join they actually noted that the tolerance was *way* better than any prior aircraft. The A380 was the same way...fuselage join went together extremely well, even though the sections were done by different factories in different locations.

There may be issues with the newer processes, but structural interface problems don't seem to be one of them.

By "structural interface problems" I mean that sections were meant to be delivered to Seattle fully fitted ready to be joined and the services hooked up. The main structure may have joined, but the services don't appear to have due either to them not even being fitted, or other problems.


User currently offlineDistantHorizon From Portugal, joined Oct 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 15685 times:



Quoting Manfredj (Reply 13):
everyone who has placed an order for the type are more than willing to wait

Off course they are! But at a price. Ask Airbus.  Wink

DH


User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 15577 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Well, the true rollout will be in a couple months, so it will still be 2-3 months. Last July was a publicity stunt disguised as a rollout.

I agree, roll out has not happened yet and when it does I would say first flight will follow very quickly. less than a month (by Shire reckoning!) I would bet.



I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14569 times:



Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 19):
Most likely yes, but it would have been nice to hear the same thing during the A380 delays from a majority of the users on this forum.

Well, the difference is that during this delay, the 787 is continuing to sell and nobody is talking about cancelation. QF is talking about A350s as well if Boeing doesn't launch a 787-10X, and NH wanted compensation and seems to have gotten it with a discount on more planes. NW seems kind of busy right now... Major carriers placed orders and follow-ons.

During the A380 delay, the plane did not continue to sell much, and not only did some carriers talk about canceling, some DID cancel, others deferred.

If the delays continue with the 787, you might see that, but right now, the airlines are reacting differently. Not every situation is equal just because some circumstances are similar.

I am not going to apologize for Boeing. They have made some blunders on this program. But the result, so far, has not been the same lack of confidence in the program.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Osiris30 : Yes.. you're right. The stretching has nothing to do with the vast increase in regulatory tests that have to be performed since the willy nilly days
26 Gt1 : Unofficial and ugly rumor is first power on won't be until the 4th quarter '08. First flight maybe 4th quarter '08, or 1st quarter '09. Regardless of
27 Post contains images Lufthansa411 : I agree. I want the 787 to be successful and fly, but at the same time, it seems like they are at the loosing end of a bet. Outsourcing the productio
28 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Is this supposed to be news? Boeing had already stated as much in their last program update. Quite predictably, I shall once again post the milestone
29 Beertrucker : Hmmmm Lets see. It is a totally NEW AIRCRAFT from anything built before. It has More stuff in it that was not in other aircraft. Yes a design looks gr
30 Coa747 : Progress is evident, I saw it first hand for myself today. I was up at Boeing for a meeting and got a tour of the factory floor. I also asked the ques
31 KC135TopBoom : Do you know something we don't? No, from the PR stunt Boeing pulled to the originally scheduled first flight was 3.5 months (7/8/7 to 9/30/07). From
32 Alessandro : 5 airlines has cancelled so far. I wonder if some beancounters are counting how much the can get from Boeing if their airplanes are delayed? The prob
33 SKAirbus : Well all these statements about how wonderful the 787 is are a bit moot when airlines have trusted in Boeing delivering an aircraft on time and now ma
34 KC135TopBoom : But others have ordered the B-787, or increased their original orders. There is still a backlog of well over 700 firm airplanes on order. Of course t
35 R2rho : I will start believing predictions/rumors/etc for a first flight date once first power on has happened. No sooner.
36 Jet-lagged : Five airlines have cancelled committed 787 orders??
37 Bongodog1964 : The problem is that the whizz kids with their laptops belive the garbage that comes out of them, not for one minute thinking that it is the direct re
38 Post contains images Jetlagged : It's not just project management. Boeing have designed an incredibly complex aircraft and integrating that complexity is what takes the time. I wonde
39 Osiris30 : The 'whizz kids' as you call them are/were pretty seasoned experienced people at Boeing. You seem to have a lot of resentment towards technology and
40 Post contains links USAF336TFS : For good news on Airbus, then may I suggest Scott Hamilton's Leeham Co. LLC's website: http://www.leeham.net/
41 GDB : That is so true, including way beyond the aerospace industry.
42 USAF336TFS : Terrific chart, as always, WingedMigrator! That update on the first 787 to fly was because other bloggers had wrongly this week suggested airplane #2
43 Post contains images Rheinbote : that's 11-12 months delay if one analyst source is correct in reporting that the original power-on date was April 21, 2007. Whatever, in five years f
44 Lufthansa411 : 99.99%-100% of the users on this forum have no idea what happens behind closed doors at Boeing, me included. We have no idea what exactly goes on at
45 Viscount724 : The 747 also wasn't a great leap in technology but was much bigger than any previous Boeing aircraft, yet it was in passenger service less than one y
46 Osiris30 : With all due respect: If you can point out a commercial airliner feature high-bypass engines that predates the 747 I'd be happy to hear of it. The 74
47 Viscount724 : I was referring to the basic aircraft structure and design, not the engines which were of course not built by Boeing, and as it turned out, the early
48 Bongodog1964 : Yes they all sign off on the timeline, job completed; unfortunately in real life all that has been completed is the signature. I'm sure the 1st dream
49 AirNZ : Well, of course it would be...when has certain pom-pom girls ever compared anything without needing an 'edge'? You do mean the latest news is that it
50 Post contains images WingedMigrator : The originally scheduled first flight was late August 2007. The original delivery date was May 2008. Very different. The A380 was only about 3 months
51 Jetlagged : I wasn't talking about the technology you can see. There's nothing particularly difficult or risky in an electric pump replacing pneumatic bleed. I'm
52 Rheinbote : The first flight of the A380 and the roll-out of the 787 might be quite comparable with respect to what was internally known about delays and problem
53 Lumberton : I agree. Has that event slipped?
54 A380US : Should be exciting when it eventually comes out.
55 Post contains links Lumberton : Well, it looks like another delay can't be ruled out, but.... http://fleetbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/boeing-787-challenges/
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