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Paper: FL To Start New BWI-BTV Service  
User currently offlineMotopolitico From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 212 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

According to the front page of today's Burlington Free Press, FL will be bringing its metal to Vermont. The loss of DH 's excellent frequencies to IAD was a major blow, and for such a small airport to be adding new service in this economy is truly an accomplishment. Our market is being buoyed by the weak US dollar, and the fact that Montreal has no suitable airport on the south shore. I expect that as long as either is true, BTV will continue to have disproportionately good service for the rural state that Vermont is.

FL and DL beat B6 out of ATL; FL in BTV represents a real threat to B6's snowbird routes such as FLL and MCO, although they have now started E-Jet service to Orlando. Will B6 persevere in this climate? Can I expect a fare war to florida in the depths of next winter?


Garbage stinks; trash don't!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4795 times:

Here's the FL press release. Three daily nonstops to BWI...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080215/nyf011a.html?.v=1


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4788 times:

http://pressroom.airtran.com/phoenix...-newsArticle&ID=1108953&highlight=


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4753 times:

Yeah, there was no way this was happening to IAD given all the connecting possibilities at BWI. It looks like FL is moving towards an even larger hub-style operation at BWI given the smaller cities in the NE that WN most likely won't enter like BTV, PWM, ROC etc. I like this move, and I'd like to see them open up some other similar sized stations in the Mid-Atlantic area such as MDT and ROA. Hopefully the increasing feed through BWI will allow FL to go head to head with WN on some routes such as MDW, STL, PIT etc.


TLH
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4738 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 6):
It looks like FL is moving towards an even larger hub-style operation at BWI given the smaller cities in the NE that WN most likely won't enter like BTV, PWM, ROC etc. I like this move, and I'd like to see them open up some other similar sized stations in the Mid-Atlantic area such as MDT and ROA. Hopefully the increasing feed through BWI will allow FL to go head to head with WN on some routes such as MDW, STL, PIT etc.

The problem with MDT/ROA is they are too close to BWI....you'd have to rely solely on connecting traffic. Markets like PWM, BTV, ROC have a decent amount of O+D, plus connecting traffic. SYR could fit in this strategy, since there's no WN and not a lot of service to the DC region.

I'm still surprised FL hasn't tried CAK-BWI. CAK is a good market for FL and no one flies the route directly (though WN/CO fly CLE-BWI).

Also, if FL can build up at BWI enough...some smaller markets to BWI might become possible like SAV, CHS and PNS.


User currently offlineHeavyMx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4728 times:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...s/prnewswire/NYF011A15022008-1.htm

"ORLANDO, Fla., Feb. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. , today announced plans to begin service to Burlington, Vt., the airline's 57th destination. Effective May 21, 2008, the expanding low-fare carrier will offer three daily nonstop flights between Burlington International Airport and Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport. The route will be served by AirTran Airways' popular Boeing 717-200 aircraft, which seats 117 passengers (12 in Business Class and 105 in coach)."

Wow. 2 new cities and 4 new flights for BWI in 2 days. You have to give FL credit in BWI they have found their niche in making good runs on cites like PWM,CLT,DAY,BOS,SEA.



I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 4701 times:

I noticed on the Press release, they're touting this as a Montreal Area benefit as well. I at first thought it was great- and it is, but BTV is really not an alternative airport to YUL. I DO wish them though!


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 4638 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7):


SYR could fit in this strategy, since there's no WN and not a lot of service to the DC region.

I've wondered why FL hasn't pounced on SYR by now. It's the only medium sized market North of BWI that doesn't have either WN or FL service to BWI now.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineHeavyMx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 4597 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 10):
I've wondered why FL hasn't pounced on SYR by now. It's the only medium sized market North of BWI that doesn't have either WN or FL service to BWI now.

SYR would be a good fit, Before USexpress was hacked down to nothing they ran around 4-5 DH8 daily, SYR could easily support at least 2 daily 717s



I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4582 times:

Question for those FL folks in BWI, how many gates does FL currently use at BWI and how many other gates are there available in Pier D?

I haven't flown out of Pier D in BWI since the days of Metrojet, so I was curious what FL was using.


User currently offlineHeavyMx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

They have 7 branded gates and utilize 2 other free gates at times during the day along with 2 hard stands for RONS.

There are 4 open gates on D since NW moved to C. FL has between 9-11 RONS.



I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23008 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4550 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7):
I'm still surprised FL hasn't tried CAK-BWI. CAK is a good market for FL and no one flies the route directly (though WN/CO fly CLE-BWI).

CAK-BWI is a huge hole in FL's route map.

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 6):
Hopefully the increasing feed through BWI will allow FL to go head to head with WN on some routes such as MDW, STL, PIT etc.

MDW makes sense given that it's one of Baltimore's largest O&D markets. The problem is that with a huge WN station at MDW, FL will likely be unable to match WN's frequency. I wonder if some smaller, shorter-haul markets (like PIT or RDU) might make more sense.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

Wow FL seems to be going right after B6 lately. But you never know with them they could be out of BTV by year end  Wink

User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4494 times:



Quoting Rcardinale (Reply 15):


Wow FL seems to be going right after B6 lately. But you never know with them they could be out of BTV by year end Wink

If the yield isn't there, you're right. If BTV wants the service, they had better support it because FL doesn't stick around if the $$$ ain't coming in.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

allright now i can visit stowe and the Ben and Jerry's factory

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

While this was previously rumored a few weeks back, New FL City Leaked! Burlington,VT (by MKE22 Jan 21 2008 in Civil Aviation) , it's good to see an official announcement on it.

It's not a surprise that FL added service from another Northeastern city to BWI. Yet another non-ATL route, although with the merger rumors, there could be some gates opening up on D for them and could lead to service from ATL to BTV and PWM.

Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 9):
I noticed on the Press release, they're touting this as a Montreal Area benefit as well. I at first thought it was great- and it is, but BTV is really not an alternative airport to YUL.

They must be following some of the city name protocols of Skybus....  duck 


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4356 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 4):

I'm still surprised FL hasn't tried CAK-BWI. CAK is a good market for FL and no one flies the route directly (though WN/CO fly CLE-BWI).



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
CAK-BWI is a huge hole in FL's route map.

FL relies heavily on CLE traffic. CLE-BWI is well served by WN and CO. Because WN keeps fares down, I'm sure yields on the route are not that great. CO is dropping some mainline service, moving it to a Q400 in the market. FL showed they won't fight WN. They jumped into DTW-BWI a few years back, and pulled out when WN jumped in. Maybe TOL-BWI would be a better way to entice FL to try again here?

Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 6):
I at first thought it was great- and it is, but BTV is really not an alternative airport to YUL.

Montreal residents would beg to differ. They are driving to BTV because of B6, the strength of the loonie, and the reduced taxes. They are also making the trip to Watertown to get on G4 flights.


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4331 times:

Does anyone think FNT-BWI would work? It seems to me that it would be good for connections to the Northeast corridor? I know that if I wanted to go to some place like VT, or BUF, connecting through ATL would be a kind of long circle.


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23008 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4306 times:



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 17):
Does anyone think FNT-BWI would work?

I wonder if FNT-BWI might strike a little too close to home for NW's liking. Florida and Vegas are one thing... BWI may be another.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4257 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 13):
If the yield isn't there, you're right. If BTV wants the service, they had better support it because FL doesn't stick around if the $$$ ain't coming in.

What stations have FL opened and then closed since the merger? FPO, TLH and MYR? Otherwise, all stations that were closed existed pre-merger and were necessary cuts for a smaller airline trying to survive and replacing its old fleet. With the above exceptions, no station has been opened and closed since the merger. MYR was removed to CHS for all practical purposes, while we have hashed and rehashed the TLH deal.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):
They must be following some of the city name protocols of Skybus....

B6 also considers BTV to be YUL area.



TLH
User currently offlineMotopolitico From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4158 times:



Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 6):
BTV is really not an alternative airport to YUL

If you live on the island of Montreal, Laval, or the north shore, YUL is hard to beat. If you're one of the millions who lives on the growing south shore, the act of crossing the river made BTV an attractive alternative even before the weak greenback. "Le Gros PET" made a huge mistake by developing Mirabel for the Olympics instead of St. Hubert. YMX had fabulous facilities, and a terrible location. Judging by the number of Quebec license plates filling the parking garage at BTV, Vermont will be benefiting from Trudeau's choice of airports, as well as Quebec's years of infrastructure neglect, for some time.



Garbage stinks; trash don't!
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

I've got family on the South Shore and West Island. I've done the "Alternative Airport" many times traveling up there. The money you save on airfare goes to other forms of transportation to get into Montreal, so over all savings: not so great. I can see the advantage if you are closer to the border or some of the Eastern Townships. I still think it's great for BTV, and some ways great for some Montrealers. I've just learned(at least for me) Trudeau is the way to go.


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23008 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3976 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 19):
With the above exceptions, no station has been opened and closed since the merger.

Was GSO around pre-merger? I had thought not, but I may be wrong.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3957 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
Was GSO around pre-merger? I had thought not, but I may be wrong.

It was originally served from MCO by the Airways side, and when the Airways and Airlines operations were merged service to some (but not all) of the cities the Airways side served from MCO were transferred to ATL. At the time, the Airlines side flew into RDU, and I guess the distance between the two airports was enough to keep service to both, unlike in the case of ORF and PHF.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23008 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3943 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 23):
At the time, the Airlines side flew into RDU, and I guess the distance between the two airports was enough to keep service to both, unlike in the case of ORF and PHF.

I'm really digging into my memory here, but I feel like they specifically cited the proximity to RDU when they closed GSO... IIRC, that was before CLT opened (maybe you or CitrusCritter can fill in the gaps; y'all are much better with FL history than I am).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 CitrusCritter : I do not recall the specific dates, but I do remember them referring to "moving" from GSO to CLT, much as VPS to PNS or MYR to CHS. Regardless, the r
26 Srbmod : Considering that they closed GSO in 2004, about 6 years after they started service from ATL to GSO, it didn't play that huge of a factor. At this poi
27 Cubsrule : FL gets a shocking amount of O&D traffic to ATL at CLT considering that it's a short drive and that a good percentage of passengers going to ATL will
28 Travatl : Here's the scoop on cities on the "Airways" and ValuJet routemaps prior to the merger. (Doesn't include totally new cities that were never on either c
29 Iflyatldl : Didn't VJ try IAD-YUL for a breif period?
30 CitrusCritter : Excellent list. Would you agree that the only cities that were "new cities" post-merger that were then closed are FPO, MYR, and TLH?
31 Travatl : Very briefly. Was ended in 1995, nearly two years prior to the merger. Yep, but I'd venture that ICT has dangled dangerously close to that list on mo
32 CitrusCritter : As well as DAB. I thought they were going to get the axe, but they're still hanging on.
33 MKE22 : Wow I reported this so long ago and I thought it wasn't going to happen! Good for BTV! I wouldn't be surprised to see them maybe announce MCO or ATL l
34 Post contains images MOBflyer : MOB was served by ValuJet, AirTran, then AirTran again. IIRC, AirTran served MOB through the merger, canceled it, came back, and then left again. Thi
35 Travatl : Actually, we (ValuJet) started service to Mobile in April of 1996. Following the shut down (which lasted from 17JUN96 - 29SEP96), service was restored
36 Travatl : Ooops, my bad. MOB stayed on the route map through May of 1998.
37 MOBflyer : Sad thing is that most airline planners have too vivid a memory of this. They are hesitant to start service to MOB because they feel that fliers will
38 ThegreatRDU : B6 really has nothing to worry about they still kind of have a monopoly in BTV
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