Tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4629 posts, RR: 7 Posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18699 times:
I have it on good authority that an Southwest/Airtran tie up is all but complete. Apparently they've been in discussion and major points are worked out, now just waiting for the other mergers to begin before they hit the dance floor together (perhaps to pick up the cast offs required for the others mergers?). Looks like it's something that will happen this year.
AirTran is in Atlanta where Southwest would also love to have a presence (without the deadly battle with Airtran) and AirTran is about to face a hell of a lot of pressure on its stronghold there with a stronger Delta/Northwest combo. It recently failed in its bid for Midwest and with Southwest it will obviously have the scale it needs. We know that AirTran's Fornaro is in favor of consolidation and even though he has said that they are not pursuing any mergers it does not mean they are not being pursued or unwilling to accept an offer. And Gary Kelly has noted that they are open to "participating" in a merger, likely in a buyer role, if that what the coming consolidations call for. Its all business, its all about what best for business, and Southwest and Airtran know their markets.
I just heard this tonight from two people connected/within Southwest so now I bring it here to see what more is out there on this. I know it's been discussed ad nauseum and that many think the 717's will be an issue but Airtran and Southewest are otherwise a good match and I feel confident that a merger of these two is likely to be a reality.
So who knows more on this?
Tug
[Edited 2008-02-16 22:56:47]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18685 times:
First off, I don't believe this to save my life. Mostly because theres no way they could have been "discussing" it for however long and nothing's been leaked. I haven't seen a single article about it. And why would they be waiting for other mergers to happen? If they're ready to go, then go! Get a head start. I don't see a reason to wait and then get behind in the game.
Second, since when were we using SWA and ATA? At first I thought you decided to switch to talking about ATA Airlines (formerly American Trans Air). It's WN and FL. If you wanna go the ICAO, then SWA and TRS. But using ATA to refer to AirTran - well that's just confusing.
Tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18654 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1): Second, since when were we using SWA and ATA? At first I thought you decided to switch to talking about ATA Airlines (formerly American Trans Air). It's WN and FL. If you wanna go the ICAO, then SWA and TRS. But using ATA to refer to AirTran - well that's just confusing.
Fair enough, I've changed it to not be confusing.
Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18636 times:
You realise AirTran and ATA are two totally different airlines?
In reference to ATA, the company had mentioned they might indeed sell their scheduled service operation and SWA could possibly be a bidder. TZ MAY Sell Scheduled Service! (by IndyCanuck Jan 30 2008 in Civil Aviation)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
This is just another of the many rumors that are on their 9th or 10th lap around the track. It's hard to put credence in any of them, as often as we've heard them over the months/years.
I'll believe it when (or if, and that's a BIG if) it happens....
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4536 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18604 times:
Won't believe it til I see it...
As far as I'm concerned it's still just another rumor.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4536 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18568 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4): Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
I have it on good authority
Oh, do tell us who your source...
Yeah, I'm curious. By reliable, do you mean employed at Southwest? The stuff I hear internally is often just as, if not more ridiculous than stuff posted in these forums!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18568 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1): Mostly because theres no way they could have been "discussing" it for however long and nothing's been leaked.
While i wont believe anything until i see it, this is WN we are talking about here, they are pretty "water-tight" when it comes to leaks...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18547 times:
Quoting Tugger (Thread starter): I just heard this tonight from two people connected/within Southwest so now I bring it here to see what more is out there on this.
You can't trust anything from anyone. Several months ago, I had a rather senior ramp supervisor tell me with a completely serious face that US and UA would be merging in the near future.
Tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18508 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4): Oh, do tell us who your source...
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8): You can't trust anything from anyone. Several months ago, I had a rather senior ramp supervisor tell me with a completely serious face that US and UA would be merging in the near future.
As I said, two people, both connected to the financial impacts and aspects involved. Can't say much else as I do like these people and they were not happy at the slip. Loose lips and all.
I don't doubt that it ain't happening until its happening and till then its a rumor as titled. But both carriers would benefit and as mentioned if Delta/Northwest happens then AirTran will face a significant threat in its primary hub.
Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1713 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 18446 times:
I can almost see another Republic Airlines in the offing. WN and FL merge, then bring YX into the mix, so you have a huge LCC, with Hubs in Atl, Dal, Hou, and Mke and focus cities everywhere.
To me, it would make sense for WN and FL to wait until DL/NW and CO/UA are in the middle of their mergers, spending billions of dollars in the hopes of forcing fares up, then in walks WN/FL as a new low fare super power, the legacies would literally be pissing their collective pants.
I could have elite status if I wanted it, but flying the same airline all the time is boring.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18370 times:
What what do all these mergers do for the flying public !
Let's see:
AA
CO
DL
FL
NW
UA
US
WN
To:
AA
CO/US
DL/NW
FL/WN
US
Now, I will be the first to say that nothing s complete and for sure until the fat lady sings (even for the DL/NW deal which seems the most "for sure" thing right now) but just speaking hypothetically, choices seem pretty slim on travelocity...
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18303 times:
It's still a little early for April 1st yet. But like the others mergers being discussed, I'll believe
it when I see it. AirTran would fit better with Midwest rather than WN, IMHO.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3635 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 18155 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8): You can't trust anything from anyone. Several months ago, I had a rather senior ramp supervisor tell me with a completely serious face that US and UA would be merging in the near future
Vulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 517 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 18076 times:
I work for Airtran andhave barely heard an audible whisper about this. I highly doubt it. WN doesn't want to come near ATL. Our airport doesn't work with their quick turn model. This is why they have stayed away from the NYC airports and Boston. I highly doubt this will happen, but in this industry anything is possible so we'll see.
MilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 838 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18045 times:
I think someone might be getting their airlines mixed up. As it was pointed out above... Southwest and ATA -> that I believe. Southwest and AirTran -> Not a chance.
JayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18038 times:
Quoting Tugger (Reply 9): As I said, two people, both connected to the financial impacts and aspects involved. Can't say much else as I do like these people and they were not happy at the slip. Loose lips and all.
Ya know, I really can't stand people that post crap like this. Not just here, but other forums I post on as well. The "I'm posting something you don't know, but I can't name any sources" posts are useless and, 7 times out of 10, are little more than someone being an attention whore.
The rumour of WN and FL hooking up have been around for years. Not saying it is not possible...but I will believe it when I see it.
Why would WN want FL at all.. that would give them 2 a/c types which totally goes against what
WN does.... and, as someone else posted, what would WN do with ATL??
JayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 17974 times:
Quoting Nkops (Reply 17): Why would WN want FL at all.. that would give them 2 a/c types which totally goes against what
WN does.... and, as someone else posted, what would WN do with ATL??
I can see the reasons for WN wanting FL...73G's. The 717's could be sold off to someone out there...perhaps Midwest?
As far as ATL...with the exception of taxi out/in times for Runway 10/28...I don't think it would be a major issue for them to fly there and it still fit their model.
However, the fact remains that there has been no official word they are even talking...let alone on the verge of an agreement.
Continental180 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17820 times:
I'm really getting sick of all this rumor crap.
Airliners.net has so much false information in the forums. i mean, all the posts and all, they claim that they are big topics, which in some cases they are, but then they are just options. i just want the facts. not rumors. so if you have something worth my attention, please feel free to post.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17770 times:
Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 15): I think someone might be getting their airlines mixed up. As it was pointed out above... Southwest and ATA -> that I believe. Southwest and AirTran -> Not a chance.
Quoting JayDub (Reply 18): The 717's could be sold off to someone out there...perhaps Midwest?
Because I'm sure it would be easy to sell the 87 717's FL has....there is such a strong demand for 717's............Why would Midwest want them, they cant replace the MD's with them they lack the range.....717 will be with FL forever like NW's DC9's
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17580 times:
Quoting Tugger (Reply 9): But both carriers would benefit and as mentioned if Delta/Northwest happens then AirTran will face a significant threat in its primary hub.
Why? The primary reason to combine NW and DL is to improve international revenue flows and get better yields out of the weaker performing small markets. FL doesn't do international flying and doesn't serve most smaller markets, so the impact will be minimal. If anything, FL will gain because they will likely scoop up the NW gates at ATL which DL/NW will dump as a way to help get the merger approved.
JayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17499 times:
Quoting A340Crew (Reply 21): Because I'm sure it would be easy to sell the 87 717's FL has....there is such a strong demand for 717's............Why would Midwest want them, they cant replace the MD's with them they lack the range.....717 will be with FL forever like NW's DC9's
Believe me...there is a market for everything.
I disagree with your statement about FL keeping them forever. They will definitely get their money's worth out of them...but even back when I was there they were always talking of going All-737.
Super80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1637 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17344 times:
Is this another internship secret? Also, there isn't anyway this would happen because WN doesn't like mergers. Sure, you can make it sound great because they have -700's. It wouldn't work as good as you think because their -700's are different. WN has the 737-7H4, FL has the 737-7BD or -76N.
Right now there is an AA MD-80 flying over my house.
25 Catdaddy63: WN has more than the -7H4's, they routinely purchase used aircraft from other sources and reconfigure them to the WN standard. The quantity of 717's
26 FlyASAGuy2005: I don't think 3 gates (I think it's 3 gates in ATL) will help their case. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s/020108dnbusairmerge.3774ee7.html T
27 AS739X: San Francisco and Philly don't work in their quick model either, but they have learned to make it work. That being said, this rumor seems to be way o
28 FlyASAGuy2005: That seems to be the general concensus.
29 102IAHexpress: This rumor is actually very plausible. If DL/NW is formally announced I can see this happening as the DoJ would favor a WN check on a DL fortress hub
30 FlyASAGuy2005: What exactly is DL gaining in ATL from NW? They are already maxed out on gates. Current NW flights out of ATL is peanuts compared to what Delta curre
31 AirRyan: Wow it's amazing at how many WN experts there are here - first of all, what has worked for Southwest over the last 35+ years is not necessarily going
32 JetBlueAUS: Definitely. A lot of the posts I am reading on here now are nothing but repeated conversations about mergers that will probably never happen. (ie. Je
33 DeltAirlines: It would be possible for NW/DL to pick up those 717s. A lingering question with the DL/NW merger has been what happens to YX since NW has such a larg
34 Isitsafenow: I can argue both sides of this...which I love to do....and did in JR College. I can see WN wanting to "eliminate" FL because FL is slowly becoming a p
35 CitrusCritter: Uh huh...Let me see here. DL already has the world's largest hub at ATL. FL does just fine against them. DL will take plenty of time to integrate NW
36 Luv2fly: And yet you still posted info from people you like, not saying much for your character if it is in fact true about WN and FL.
37 FlyASAGuy2005: What makes you so confident? Although I do agree that the 717's would be a great asset but I don't see why they would have to run them as a sub-fleet
38 Isitsafenow: The people........that run WN. That's always the key to a successful company. safe
39 FlyASAGuy2005: That may all be true but economics, believe it or not, still plays a big role in the success of a company...
40 NWAESC: Does NWA still own it's maintenance hangar in ATL? I know that we were still paying the lease long after it was vacated... If not, who's occupying it
41 777STL: Ok, I'm calling bullshit on this, and here's why...... If this was a frontline employee telling you this, they have no more clue than you or I do. An
42 A380US: Why would this help them? ATL is too big for WN.
43 STT757: That thinking is no longer valid as WN went into PHL which has some of the worst delays in the Country and did very well, they also re-entered SFO wh
44 Sxf24: There is fundamentally no market for the 717, which is why Boeing still owns most of them and was willing to lease them to third-rate carriers teeter
45 Flighty: A lot of people are still saying that. I believe it could happen. Only one big reason why not. Pilot pay. That is the #1 reason. They would want to k
46 Srbmod: NW uses four gates (D-11A [which is a shared gate], D-13, D-14, D-16). When you throw in the fact that CO uses five gates on the D as well, and throw
47 Chris133: WN is notorious for not leaking any info on what it is going to do (new cities, code shares, new policies, etc...). Any employee will tell you that I
48 Tugger: Ouch! And that's the reason I posted it with the title RUMOR. I trust the sources, I can't identify them, so rumor it is. Its all part of A.net. That
49 TxAgKuwait: I tend to agree. AirTran brings some things to Southwest that they would would be difficult to just go out and get on their own. Their position in th
50 Av8orwalk: Just curious, how many flights/destinations would a combined WN/FL fly out of BWI? Would BWI still be WN's largest station? I'm intrigued by this. Not
51 AV8orWALK: I should clarify...I know that BWI isn't WN's largest station right now, but would it be the larger of the two: BWI vs. ATL. Sorry! Cheers Drew
52 CitrusCritter: Wow, we can't see your bias. FL and YX are 3rd rate? FL sure gave first rate DL a whipping for years until DL used BK to artifically cut their costs.
53 Sxf24: While FL's financial performance has improved in recent years, I think its fair to say that few of the carriers that ordered the 717 were (or have) d
54 AirRyan: I didn't necessarily mean to imply that US and AA would or should seek a merger, just pointing out what the new domestic landscape would look for WN
55 TxAgKuwait: I am well aware that Southwest does not fly into MEM and no, I was not thinking of BHM. MEM is a hole in the WN route map, and one that is occupied m
56 PITops: Gary Kelly's exact words when he was asked about the merger with Airtran... "Do you want us to lose money?" I seriously doubt this would happen. Just
57 LoneStarMike: Gary Kelly was specifically asked about acquiring AirTran not too long ago in this interview published by the Dallas Morning News. It doesn't mean it'
58 KochamLOT: Just a few days ago ATWonline reported that Southwest was considering a merger in the future but there was no talks of discussions with any particular
59 Frontierflyer: Maybe now nw and dl will think before they get married. Talk about awakening the sleeping giant wn, I wouldn't probably call them sleeping though.
60 PVD757: As far as this rumor goes, I could definitely see them acquiring Air Tran. I do think they will wait to see how the DL/NW merger affects Air Tran. The
61 OPNLguy: There wouldn't need to be 4th F/A, since AirTran has only the -700, and no -800s. I still think it's all academic at this point, and just another of
62 MOBflyer: You're right in that they can't fly to MEM - but they can go into Tunica! Wouldn't that be awesome?!?
63 OPNLguy: There was discussion of going into AWM back in the 1980s, but nothing ever came of it. There was pretty much nothing there as far as airline infrastr
64 EXAAUADL: i know someone from WN schedule and planning...I asked about this potential tie up...it is BS
65 MOBflyer: The runway in Tunica has been extended to 7,000 x 150. And their is a terminal onsite (has served PanAm, and is serving G4 and many other charters) ,
66 OPNLguy: Looking at the satellite photo of UTA on Google, it looks like there used to be another 2,000' or so of runway on the north side, or was that an old
67 Nkops: Wasn't referring to you necessarily.... I know it's part of A.net.... thats what makes this site interesting actually.. all the "what if's" and rumor
68 HeavyMx1: I know someone at WN and they said its...True. But no one will know what will happen until its in writing. In the mean time it makes for some good ti
69 Isitsafenow: Economics.......science that deals with the production, distribution and use of wealth. source ...my Webster's dictionary. ....which brings us back t
70 Usair330: Pushing back a plane last night from gate D2 the captain came over the mic and said "watch company pushing back at the top"..... There was an AirTran
71 CitrusCritter: I'm sorry, could you clarify that for us non-rampers? It doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
72 JetBlueAUS: While sometimes rumors can become true, most of the rumors that I have read on here have not.
73 Lightsaber: Oh... some people have a history of having a higher success criteria than others. That said... I don't put any weight into this 'rumor.' More precise
74 OPNLguy: No really big deal there--it's essentlly load the new software version and Cntl-Alt-Del and you're in business...
75 Suprazachair: ...and CO... oh, and AS is a national, not a legacy.
76 FlyASAGuy2005: Thanks for proving my point . I have no idea how the gate leases are written in Atlanta when it comes to CO, UA, and NW. It would be interesting to k
77 Vulindlela744: I have been asking around at work today to see if anyone has heard about this supposed buyout/merger. No one really seems to know anything. So at this
78 EMBQA: ATL would kill Southwest with delays.............
79 LoneStarMike: See Reply #43 where STT757 noted: LoneStarMike
80 CitrusCritter: Legacy carrier is a term used to define an airline, especially a hub carrier, that existed prior to deregulation or are comprised of airlines that di
81 Socalfive: I'm amongst the "Believe it when I see it" crowd, however, stranger things have happened and the decisions are being made by smarter and better inform
82 Srbmod: Excuse me, I speak "ramper"....... I was pushing a plane out of gate D2 when the Captain said to me over the headset "Watch for one of our a/c being
83 IndyWA: Ahhh but there would also be hiccups with a Southwest-Airtran merger! So they might not be able to take such a quick advantage of things either.
84 Quickmover: They said the same thing about PHL.
85 EMBQA: PHL is minor when it comes to delays at ATL
86 Vulindlela744: For those of you who haven't flown through ATL in awhile you should try. Congestion isn't nearly as bad since the fifth runway was added. Also, we hav
87 Tugger: What would actually kill would be trying to go in there against Airtran. As has been noted by several posters here, its not the delays and taxi times
88 Gener8tion: First of all...if you've been around the industry for a LONG time...you know that a merger between AirTran and Southwest will never happen. Its just t
89 Alphascan: I can tell you it won't be the former.
90 RJ: II believe this rumor may have started from a Dallas Morning News column on Feb. 1st. Some of the highlights from the story: "We have enough exposure
91 EXAAUADL: WN can do that without FL...there will be plenty of open gates in MEM after the DL/NW tie up
92 Cloudy: The major issues in most airline mergers are PEOPLE related. It is easy to look at fleets and route maps like one looks at a chessboard, and plot your
93 PITops: My roommate just told me that the WN/ US merger talks are in the LA Times today. Can anyone verify?
94 Surfrider1978: WN/US would never happen. However im all for a WN/FL marraige. And the 717 can be used on intra-texas routes. They can call it the "Tex Express" opera
95 PITops: He emailed me the article. Basically it says WN is considering a merger with US. That's all it says. It will not happen!
96 BAW716: Hmm... I'm having a hard time believing this one...it would make life for Southwest so very difficult. Of course, if they do what they did with ATA; k
97 PITops: That's what I told him. Take everything the media says with a HUGE grain of salt.
98 Vega: Very true. However, albeit a cultural mismatch, this relationship has some logical (potential) benefits behind it, including a dramatic cut in overal
99 Frontierflyer: More like who opens Pandora's Box? I'm surprised to see WN in the mix. Would love to see what they say about PHX LAS PHL in a WN/US marriage. What bu
100 Atpcliff: Hi! Fact: (I believe this is in the Dallas article linked to above.) The SWA CEO said that SWA WILL merge with someone, if any mergers start to occur.
101 Vatveng: This smells like more Wall Street rumor-starting by investment bankers who would make a killing should WN and FL merge. I don't see it happening. That
102 Lexy: So you would cannibalize BNA at the expense of a market with a smaller growth rate and a smaller catchment area than BNA?
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