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Can DCA Take A 767?  
User currently offlineQantas777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 484 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7721 times:

Can DCA take a 767, or is the airport limit only to a 757 and like capacity?

Thanks!

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Going from what I recall in the past the A300 was used at DCA so I imagine that the 767 would be able to. Depends on how heavily it is loaded (thinking freight more than pax). I know other large aircraft have landed there, but had to take off fairly light and go to nearby airports for full fuel, etc (I am recalling a DC-10 event some time back now)...


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

From what I have heard and read on this forum the 757 is the limit.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7654 times:

Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 1):
I know other large aircraft have landed there, but had to take off fairly light and go to nearby airports for full fuel, etc (I am recalling a DC-10 event some time back now)...

That was a United DC-10 some 4-5 years ago, IIRC. They were ORD-BWI with a listed alternate of MDT, and there was a cell overhead BWI but captain diverted to IAD instead. He found weather there at IAD too (probably why the dispatcher used MDT in the first place) and the captain then went to DCA. Passengers were deplaned and bussed, and the aircraft ferried DCA-BWI once the weather allowed. There were no widebody loaders at DCA, so the baggage couldn't be unloaded until the aircraft finally arrived in BWI.

Even further back, I also recall that Eastern ran an A300 into DCA, but I think that was a test of some kind, either a single flight, or only for a limited period.

[Edited 2008-02-17 11:18:02]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

I don't see any NOTAMs prohibiting 767s, but IIRC there's a wingspan issue somewhere on the field... Departures and arrivals on 1/19 wouldn't be a problem, at least for short flights.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7586 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 2):
From what I have heard and read on this forum the 757 is the limit.

There's a difference between what's the functional limit and what the absolute limit is. There are also differences between what the airport could physically handle and what regulations allow. Because of the short runway, 757s are a very good choice for the higher-capacity and longer routes because of their short-field performance. With the 1250-mile perimeter, there aren't that many routes where you'd even want anything any larger than a 757 unless you wanted to reduce frequency. The longest runway at DCA is 6869 feet long, which would make it possible for an MTOW 762 takeoff, but any larger 767 would have weight restrictions. Considering the typical difference between a 2-class 752 and a 2-class 762 is only about 25 seats, it's hardly worth the trouble.


User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

This 1999 GAO report contemplates using a 767 into DCA, but notes that its wingspan and length could cause operational problems.

As far as field performance, 767-200ERs and -300ERs with higher-thrust engine options should have no problem in cooler weather but might be payload restricted in the DC summer heat. Lower-powered non-ER variants would have a little more trouble, and as for the 767-400ER, forget about it.

I'm having a hard time finding the official regulations on the subject, but my recollection is that 767 aircraft were allowed before 9/11, although no one flew them, but that since 9/11 nothing larger than a 757 is permitted. (I don't know if that includes a 757-300 or not.)



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7572 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 5):
The longest runway at DCA is 6869 feet long, which would make it possible for an MTOW 762 takeoff, but any larger 767 would have weight restrictions. Considering the typical difference between a 2-class 752 and a 2-class 762 is only about 25 seats, it's hardly worth the trouble.

Within the perimeter, though, no 76 is going to be close to MTOW... A 763 could get to ORD or ATL from DCA, though as you correctly point out, there's hardly any point. Neither the cargo capacity nor the range is needed.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2980 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

if they had it could-hey 772's and 332's have landed @ ALB!


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7526 times:



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 6):
(I don't know if that includes a 757-300 or not.)

TZ has had the 753 at DCA... NW may have as well.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Eastern did send an A-300 into DCA as a test, as they were considering their use on the DCA flights of the Eastern Shuttle (They were already using the A300 on the LGA-BOS route of the Shuttle) and while the test was successful, the A-300's use on the Eastern Shuttle was short-lived, just like when they operated the L-1011 on the LGA and BOS Shuttle routes a few years prior. Widebodies just took too long to turn in a shuttle operation.

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7292 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
TZ has had the 753 at DCA... NW may have as well.

I've seen one once, literally. Obviously a sub, but it's been done. This was less than a year ago.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
Within the perimeter, though, no 76 is going to be close to MTOW... A 763 could get to ORD or ATL from DCA, though as you correctly point out, there's hardly any point. Neither the cargo capacity nor the range is needed.

True, but DCA is very frequency-based, and with gate space being pretty tight a 767 would cause problems over at DL's space. The 752s they use to SLC are a pretty tight fit from what I've heard, although I'll confess to not knowing jack about it.

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 6):
but that since 9/11 nothing larger than a 757 is permitted. (I don't know if that includes a 757-300 or not.)

I think the regulation escalated to progressively larger levels and the final form was "no widebodies." I don't know if it's still in effect.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6708 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7137 times:



Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 1):
from what I recall in the past the A300 was used at DCA

Far as I can recall nobody's found a timetable showing one.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
the A-300's use on the Eastern Shuttle was short-lived

A total of ... a couple of years on LGA-BOS? (At one point EA and PA were both doing hourly A300s LGA-BOS.)

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
like when they operated the L-1011 on the LGA and BOS Shuttle routes a few years prior.

LGA to BOS, you mean? When?


User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7101 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 2):
From what I have heard and read on this forum the 757 is the limit.

From what I know this is imposed by the MWAA not that one can't operate there.

If I recall correctly from another thread Easter had wanted to use A300s in DCA bu the airport authority said (to paraphrase): "Oh HELL, no".



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7011 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
LGA to BOS, you mean? When?

For a brief time in 1977.

From US Airways: A Heritage Story Part VII: Trump Shuttle

Quote:
In mid 1977, Eastern moved two wide-body Lockheed L-1011Tri-Star aircraft from the mainline operation to the Air Shuttle market. A problem quickly developed as the boarding process was taking longer than the flight, plus it was impossible to achieve the quick turnaround needed to make the wide body work. (PSA in California found this out a few years earlier.) By late summer, the L-1011s were pulled from the Air Shuttle operation, as the operation reverted back to DC-9 series 30 aircraft.



User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6874 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 11):
True, but DCA is very frequency-based, and with gate space being pretty tight a 767 would cause problems over at DL's space. The 752s they use to SLC are a pretty tight fit from what I've heard, although I'll confess to not knowing jack about it.

That's correct. Is it possible? Yes. Will we ever see it? Maybe after NW retires the last -9...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2125 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Here is a link to an earlier thread on this issue:
What Is The Largest A/C To Fly In/out Of DCA? (by 777fan May 9 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting IADCA (Reply 11):
I've seen one once, literally. Obviously a sub, but it's been done. This was less than a year ago.

I also saw the TZ 757-300 ... reported in post # 19 of the above thread. Maybe we saw it on the same day. Big grin



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

I did a search, but couldn't find anything on it in any of the archives about DCA...but I seem to recall that there are three gates at DCA that are certified for a 767-300, although obviously at the current time no one flies that plane in.

Considering the plethora of long distance flights available at both IAD and BWI, this really isn't a big loss. Besides, a high-and-tight supply of available seats from arguably the most convenient airport in a major city center encourages smaller planes with higher frequencies.

As for any question of NIMBY's, remember that congress rules the District Of Columbia like a fiefdom - and it was congress' need for a close and convenient airport that brought DCA back from possible extinction. There may be a lot of restrictive rules on DCA, but none of them are NIMBY inspired.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5870 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
I did a search, but couldn't find anything on it in any of the archives about DCA...but I seem to recall that there are three gates at DCA that are certified for a 767-300, although obviously at the current time no one flies that plane in.

The following 1999 U.S. Government Accountability Office report on DCA (when there were proposals to liberalize the perimiter rule etc.) includes a reference to its ability to handle widebody aircraft. See the bottom of P.10 and the top of P. 11.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1999/rc99234.pdf

There's an update dated February 2007 but it doesn't seem to include any specific reference to widebodies.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07352.pdf


User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5836 times:

I used to work in Airport Operations for MWAA at DCA. There are six gates capable of handling a 767--the corner gates at each of the three piers.

User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 5318 times:

This conversation has already taken place several times in the past.

The Washington Post has a short story about the UA DC-10 incident for their paid subscribers.

Locking this thread as no new events have occurred since the last time it was discussed.



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