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GYY Preps For Skybus & Ponders In'tl Carrier  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Just a quick update on the GYY situation. As everyone knows their scheduled Skybus service will begin next month. I sincerely hope that this Skybus entry works and is of benefit for the airline and the airport. It is unfortunate that previous air services haven't worked out. I personally believe that service at GYY is useful in that as ORD and MDW continue to get more crowded relief/alternative airports are in order. I also believe that GYY can assist in that need on the southeast side and RFD can provide relief as well as an alternative on the west side. It is for that specifically that I hope both these regional airports succeed. Notice I said both. I don't believe a duel between RFD and GYY as third airport candidates as has been discussed before is necessary since it has been proven that passenger convenience is a component in their choice when an applicable flight can be worked out. True, cost of said flight is also a factor in their selection.

If just one successful airline can make it and it sticks at GYY I think they can acquire another and with more choices the southeast side can have an alternative that hasn't been present.

Now my position on the benefit of both of these regional airports is crystal clear and known worldwide. I hope you're smiling.

Here is the support writeup on Skybus and a possible International carrier at GYY:

Courtesy: Gary Post-Tribune
GYY Gears Up For Flights

http://www.post-trib.com/business/795451,gairport.article

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy: Indiana Economic Digest
GYY Ponders International Carrier

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.com...399&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=&S=1

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3375 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
If just one successful airline can make it and it sticks at GYY I think they can acquire another and with more choices the southeast side can have an alternative that hasn't been present.

The problem at GYY has historically been that they've had really lousy luck with carriers. I think GYY could support a fair level of service; conservatively, it is (or, more accurately, it could be) the primary airport for 600,000 people. I think both DL to ATL and NW to DTW could work well, if either carrier was so inclined.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3194 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
The problem at GYY has historically been that they've had really lousy luck with carriers. I think GYY could support a fair level of service; conservatively, it is (or, more accurately, it could be) the primary airport for 600,000 people. I think both DL to ATL and NW to DTW could work well, if either carrier was so inclined.

GYY has had it's more than fair share of bad luck. DL and FL are being "recruited" by GYY to fly to GYY. I don't know if i see FL going there just now, but DL I could maybe see on a trial run. Maybe someone like G4 as well, although they do have RFD. My wild-card GYY would love to have (not that they wouldn't the unnamed international service or DL or FL) would be B6 if they couldn't expand anymore at ORD.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3146 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 2):
Maybe someone like G4 as well, although they do have RFD.

Dont think RFD will impact on the chance of G4 serving Gary, Their South Bend operations might though



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3639 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3098 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 2):
Maybe someone like G4 as well, although they do have RFD.

Allegiant has consistently said that they will not fly to GYY until the runway expansion and EJ&J Railroad relocation is completed.

But if FL starts ATL/MCO/TPA/RSW-GYY (which might happen), the potential market for G4's services will evaporate in a nanosecond (much like it did at SWF after B6 and FL entered the market), and by the time the expanded runway opens, G4 will be kicking themselves in the pants.

As for the Mexican LCC interested in GYY service... could it be vivaAerobus? After all, they are an LCC with a hub in Monterrey...



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

GYY will have it's day, the only question is when. I wish Skybus well there, and honestly, GYY is the kind of market they should have a significant base at, no offense to CMH and GSO people. The population base, crowded airports nearby, and long term expansion capabilities at GYY make it a natural for the Ryan Air America (Skybus) model.

Links to major hubs by legacies and established LFC/LCC's should also do well in the future.

GYY has some negatives, as has been discussed in depth on A-net, but it's location near Chicago, the fact that it's already built and the economic impact established operations could have on the area bode well for it's long term success.

With one or two credible operators showing some sustained services there, others will have a serious look.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2993 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 2):
My wild-card GYY would love to have (not that they wouldn't the unnamed international service or DL or FL) would be B6 if they couldn't expand anymore at ORD.

B6 has said before that they have no interest in any Chicago airports besides ORD. Given how close we are to more capacity becoming available at ORD, I suspect we won't see them at GYY (or MDW) any time soon. I think MKE might work well for them, though.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 2943 times:

I really think UA should consider GYY. It would be an oppportunity for UA to serve an entire population that it doesn't serve, the 600,000 people in the NW Indiana region. Since UA does not have any operations at MDW, there would be no worry of competing UA flights at MDW. Similar to the way they use RFD with flights to DEN, GYY could have flights to DEN and IAD with hundreds of domestic and international connections.

I think the problem with DL, CO and NW at GYY is that a GYY base would compete with their MDW operations. US and AA might also be potential carriers since they do not serve MDW.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2917 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
and long term expansion capabilities at GYY

Define "expansion capabilities". There isn't much room on the parcel of land upon which GYY sits and I'm not sure that the property around it is available for development since it's already occupied by critical rail lines and highways. The longest and only viable runway (12/30: 7,003 ft.) could easily handle a 752 but who's going to bring it in? Moreover, GYY's location (on the SW side of Lake Michigan) makes it potentially more susceptible to snow squalls that hit NW Indiana in the wintertime. Here's a link to the Google Map image:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=gary+i...561&spn=0.014309,0.039911&t=h&z=15

Quoting United787 (Reply 7):
UA does not have any operations at MDW, there would be no worry of competing UA flights at MDW.

UA has tried to make MDW work several times over the years and has had failed each time. I sincerely doubt that they'd be able to make GYY work, especially considering they have ops at SBN (66.9 Miles down the road).


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2877 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
GYY will have it's day, the only question is when. I wish Skybus well there, and honestly, GYY is the kind of market they should have a significant base at, no offense to CMH and GSO people. The population base, crowded airports nearby, and long term expansion capabilities at GYY make it a natural for the Ryan Air America (Skybus) model.

I'm not so sure GYY can work for most of the legacies. Most already have ops at 3 airports within about 60 miles of Gary - SBN, MDW, and ORD. And the South Shore can usually get you from Gary to SBN or MDW in about 90 minutes.


User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2858 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 8):
Define "expansion capabilities". There isn't much room on the parcel of land upon which GYY sits and I'm not sure that the property around it is available for development since it's already occupied by critical rail lines and highways. The longest and only viable runway (12/30: 7,003 ft.) could easily handle a 752 but who's going to bring it in?

If you have been paying attention, you would know that the rail line (EJ&E) just to the west of 12/30 IS being moved allowing expansion of runway 12/30 to 8900 feet. If you would have checked the airport web site, you also would have seen the expansion of runway 02/20 as well as areas for the new terminal. GYY has the capability to be expanded to 2000+ acres. Hooters already used a 752 to LAS. 757's also come in for charters.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 8):
Moreover, GYY's location (on the SW side of Lake Michigan) makes it potentially more susceptible to snow squalls that hit NW Indiana in the wintertime. Here's a link to the Google Map image:

GYY IS NOT in the Northwest Indiana Snowbelt!! NWS lists 1 inch more annual snowfall at GYY than MDW.
During these last bouts of snow GYY was open at times when ORD and MDW were not.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2832 times:



Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 10):
If you have been paying attention, you would know that the rail line (EJ&E) just to the west of 12/30 IS being moved allowing expansion of runway 12/30 to 8900 feet. If you would have checked the airport web site, you also would have seen the expansion of runway 02/20 as well as areas for the new terminal. GYY has the capability to be expanded to 2000+ acres. Hooters already used a 752 to LAS. 757's also come in for charters.

Great! GYY's runway can be expanded to 8900 feet...but mind you, you're citing HOOTERS FREAKING AIRLINES as an indication of future success?! I've checked the website; the FAA is partially funding an expansion but that doesn't guarantee air service. Who's going to subsidize that?

Seriously, if GYY were a viable alternative, carriers would have already flocked there. The "if you build it, they will come" plan does not necessarily work for airports. Don't believe me? Check out the MidAmerica Airport in Southern Illinois: http://www.flymidamerica.com/.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2806 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
Great! GYY's runway can be expanded to 8900 feet...but mind you, you're citing HOOTERS FREAKING AIRLINES as an indication of future success?! I've checked the website; the FAA is partially funding an expansion but that doesn't guarantee air service. Who's going to subsidize that?

I was merely pointing out that 757's have already used GYY on a regular basis. How did you get out of that , that I was holding out Hooters as a model for future success? There are airlines that have stated that they would service GYY, if the railroad obstruction was moved. As the railroad sits now, it is a 38 foot obstruction at the end of the runway.
The money comes from a LOI (letter of intent) from the FAA. It ties up our AIP and CIP funds for quite a while. Also state and local funding. Chicago also kick in several million dollars a year.
Maybe you don't realize that GYY is a full Part 139 class 1 airport.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
Check out the MidAmerica Airport in Southern Illinois: http://www.flymidamerica.com/.

We know. We call it Peotone south, although I don't know if MidAmerica has a VOR.


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2773 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
Great! GYY's runway can be expanded to 8900 feet...but mind you, you're citing HOOTERS FREAKING AIRLINES as an indication of future success?! I've checked the website; the FAA is partially funding an expansion but that doesn't guarantee air service. Who's going to subsidize that?

Pardon me, but Hooters was a customer of Pace Airlines that owned and operated the Aircraft in question. Pace Airlines was a division of Piedmont Hawthorne at the time. If Hooters had great profit and LF to LAS at the time, wouldn't you want to fly an aircraft GYY-LAS?

Think you need to get your facts right on how airlines dispatch there aircraft, its all pretty much the same pal!



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2743 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
Seriously, if GYY were a viable alternative, carriers would have already flocked there. The "if you build it, they will come" plan does not necessarily work for airports. Don't believe me? Check out the MidAmerica Airport in Southern Illinois:

Apples and oranges. BLV was built when STL had serious capacity problems (this was around the same time that the runway to nowhere was dreamed up). Both MDW and ORD have limited capacity (and neither is located particularly close to where most growth in metropolitan Chicago is occurring).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2702 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
I think MKE might work well for them, though.

Are they going to open any more new cities this year? And if so, does anyone think that MKE has a shot at being added by B6 soon?



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2698 times:



Quoting B757capt (Reply 13):
If Hooters had great profit and LF to LAS at the time, wouldn't you want to fly an aircraft GYY-LAS?



Quoting B757capt (Reply 13):
Think you need to get your facts right on how airlines dispatch there aircraft, its all pretty much the same pal!



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
Both MDW and ORD have limited capacity (and neither is located particularly close to where most growth in metropolitan Chicago is occurring).

Let's walk through this: say I live in downtown Chicago (for the sake of this "simulatIon", we'll pick the Loop since it's smack dab in the middle of the city) and I'm looking to head out to LAS for a couple of days (I picked 6/4-6/8). I could fly AA (nonstop) out of ORD for $245 r/t. I could also fly WN (nonstop) out of MDW for $307 r/t. For me, a GYY-LAS (regardless of airline) would either have to be priced so ridiculously low, offer unparalleled service or be so convenient time-wise that it'd be worth the extra 45 (min) commute down there and/or whatever it cost me to get down there in the first place.

Why did Hooters, et. al. fail at GYY? Surely it had nothing to do with field limitations - a 757's capacity more likely than not far exceeds whatever demand GYY generates and therein lies the problem. Again, if GYY appealed to Chicago pax, it'd already be serviced by legacies and LCCs alike. As for the Gary "metropolitan area", it's population has plummeted despite the recent arrival of casinos and a minor league baseball team:

(fair use excerpt from http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/T...est/Gary-Population-Profile.html):

1980: 643,000
1990: 604,526
2000: 484,564
Percent change, 1990–2000: -19.8%

Bottom line: say what you want about logistics, capacity and dispatching; if the demand isn't there, the planes won't be there either. Gary's most obvious hurdle is its image as an economically depressed leftover from the USS days. There is little to nothing immediately surrounding Gary that will lure people to it by name alone. That said, it's too far from the city center to relabel it as "Chicago-Gary" versus "Gary-Chicago" and, IMO, so long as the Gary name is associated with the airport, it's going to have a really tough time selling itself as a standalone or "alternative" Chicago airport.

Moreover, Lake County, IN is barely growing. Its population has increased only 1.9% since 1990 and nearly 15% of its residents live at or below the poverty line (source: http://www.stats.indiana.edu/profiles/pr18089.html). Will County, IL has grown tremendously but do you think you can successfully convince its residents to head to GYY (43.4 miles from Joliet) instead of MDW (33.2 miles). If you think you can, I wish you the best of luck.

I think there is a market for GYY and I have discussed a market strategy for SkyBus in earlier threads but don't see it as a viable alternative to ORD or MDW.

New Skybus Routes Leaked (IAG, ILG, GYY) (by FWAERJ Jan 5 2008 in Civil Aviation)


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22306 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2681 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
Moreover, Lake County, IN is barely growing. Its population has increased only 1.9% since 1990 and nearly 15% of its residents live at or below the poverty line

Porter County, however, is growing and is much more propserous (in fact, IIRC, it's the second-richest county in Indiana). You're forgetting, too, the strength of hubs like DTW and ATL. Both DL and NW fly to metropolitan areas that are significantly smaller than that portion of metro Chicago for which GYY is the most convenient airport

Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
Will County, IL has grown tremendously but do you think you can successfully convince its residents to head to GYY (43.4 miles from Joliet) instead of MDW (33.2 miles). If you think you can, I wish you the best of luck.

With 80/94 finally complete, it's significantly easier to get to GYY from Joliet than it is to get to MDW. Furthermore, much of Will County's growth is occurring east of Joliet, in cities like Orland Park, New Lenox, and Frankfurt (this is also, increasingly, where the money in Will County is concentrating) which are essentially equidistant from GYY and MDW.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
Gary's most obvious hurdle is its image as an economically depressed leftover from the USS days. There is little to nothing immediately surrounding Gary that will lure people to it by name alone

Couldn't the same be said for EWR? I would imagine that most of its passengers are not going to Newark...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2665 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
et's walk through this: say I live in downtown Chicago (for the sake of this "simulatIon", we'll pick the Loop since it's smack dab in the middle of the city) and I'm looking to head out to LAS for a couple of days (I picked 6/4-6/8). I could fly AA (nonstop) out of ORD for $245 r/t. I could also fly WN (nonstop) out of MDW for $307 r/t. For me, a GYY-LAS (regardless of airline) would either have to be priced so ridiculously low, offer unparalleled service or be so convenient time-wise that it'd be worth the extra 45 (min) commute down there and/or whatever it cost me to get down there in the first place.

You seem to conveniently overlook the fact that ORD or MDW are not in the loop and take some travel time. ORD during the day is 1+ hour. MDW during the day is about 40 minutes. GYY is regularly done in 30 minutes. How do you come up with the extra 45 minutes to GYY?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 16):
Why did Hooters, et. al. fail at GYY?[/quote


They didn't. The owner died and the airline shut down. The other airlines that have served GYY in the past did not go out of business because of lack of passengers from GYY, the fault was elsewhere.


[quote=777fan,reply=16]Gary's most obvious hurdle is its image as an economically depressed leftover from the USS days. There is little to nothing immediately surrounding Gary that will lure people to it by name alone

The catchment area for GYY is about 1.5 million people. We have history from previous passengers as to where they live and why use GYY. Some of our biggest supporters are from Will County (think Peotone). Also GYY is more convient to Will County via the newley rebuilt expressways than MDW


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2615 times:



Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 18):
You seem to conveniently overlook the fact that ORD or MDW are not in the loop and take some travel time. ORD during the day is 1 hour. MDW during the day is about 40 minutes.

Speaking of convenience...ever taken the El Train to from downtown to either airport? $2 from the Loop to either airport. ORD in about 50 minutes from the Thompson Center, MDW about 40 minutes. You conveniently overlooked the fact that I arbitrarily picked the Loop because it's more or less the city center of Chicago.

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 18):
Also GYY is more convient to Will County via the newley rebuilt expressways than MDW

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other; I-55 is being redone as I type this and even with the construction, it takes no more than 20 minutes from downtown. Since you're focusing on Will County, however, consider this: Naperville to MDW: 30.0 miles. Naperville to GYY: 56.4 miles.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Couldn't the same be said for EWR? I would imagine that most of its passengers are not going to Newark...

I suppose, but EWR is roughly 14 miles from midtown Manhattan. For the sake of comparison, MDW is about 11.5 milles from The Loop. EWR also happens to be home to a major hub so chances are, pax that regularly fly CO are going to fly into EWR to get to NYC anyway. This situation differs vastly from GYY which is merely trying to attract any viable air service.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Porter County, however, is growing and is much more propserous

Sure, and it's not too far from SBN, either, which is already well served. A quick search on Porter County suggests that its economic growth may been severely shunted by the ongoing mortgage crapout:

(fair use excerpt) "Overall, the $348 million loss for Porter County amounts to slightly more than 27 percent of its nearly $1.3 billion assessment of personal property." and... "With property taxes making up most of the county's revenue, taxpayers will likely be shouldering most of the loss from the inventory tax elimination."

"We depend on that money to be part of our revenue and now it's gone," Scott said."

(taken from: http://www.nwi.com/articles/2007/07/...d335dbe2b7ddd86257325000a12a4.txt)

Read my earlier posts in the other thread and you'll note that I acknowledged Michigan City, et al...


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2600 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 19):
Since you're focusing on Will County, however, consider this: Naperville to MDW: 30.0 miles. Naperville to GYY: 56.4 miles.

Naperville is on the west side of Dupage county, not in Will County. They would be too far west to be in GYY's primary catchment area.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2560 times:



Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 20):
Naperville is on the west side of Dupage county, not in Will County. They would be too far west to be in GYY's primary catchment area.

Tell that to the Will County Executive  scratchchin 

http://www.willcountyillinois.com/Default.aspx?tabid=244

Other prominent Will County communities and their distance to GYY / MDW:

- Bolingbrook: 33.4 / 21.1
- Tinley Park: 26.9 / 15.5
- Plainfield: 57.7 / 31.4
- Downers Grove: 47.7 / 20.1

Okay, so what catchment area (for GYY) are you considering? Chicago Heights is one of the few Will County locales that's closer to GYY than MDW (22.8 / 24.4) and that's negligible at best.

Assuming that in a perfect world, GYY lands link service from a legacy carrier (NW, CO most likely?)...what are the chances that WN runs promotional sales to its destinations in those cities (DTW, CLE/ISP/HOU)? I'd put it somewhere between 100-1000%.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2539 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 21):
Other prominent Will County communities and their distance to GYY / MDW:

Try looking to this map before you move towns

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...&city=naperville&state=il&zipcode=


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

777Fan

You do indeed have a few good points but, lets not discuss past and present in one sentence.

Hooters Air had a 95%+ LF on GYY-LAS the flights paid for the aircraft, crew and made Pace a lot of money. LOTS OF MONEY. When flights were re-timed to add service to RFD it continued to make endless profits. This route allowed Hooters to fly as long as they did.

To be completely honest with you I would bet my home, car, and all amounts of savings that if G4 had the aircraft to fly GYY-LAS, THEY WOULD. Why you might ask? Because Hooters Air sold their data to them after the shut down. Hence a PIE operations center and flights from FLL oh and don't forget a focus city of RFD.

The only major problem the Gary Airport has is massive obstacles at the end of runway 30. Once the towers and railroad are moved, put your chips on that square. I do understand your travel times and other facts about populations, one thing G4 and YX show is that there are major population bases VERY CLOSE to Chicago. Kenosha, Madison, Rockford, South Bend, Merriville, Orland Park, Joliet,...........ORD is overcrowded have you attempted to fly out of there on a Friday night? I just did and it was NUTS, and I have a badge! GYY, RFD, and SBN have great potential.

Sir I find you out of line and extremely rude to make comments on a carrier such as Hooters that provided service to the community and was one of the longest serving airlines at the Airport. You might have a bias against Hooters, for some reason, but don't dispute the facts. GET A CLUE or stop posting useless crap.


P.S. You should really listen a lot better to BravoGolf, he has more information on the subjects than you think.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2464 times:



Quoting B757capt (Reply 23):
Sir I find you out of line and extremely rude to make comments on a carrier such as Hooters that provided service to the community and was one of the longest serving airlines at the Airport. You might have a bias against Hooters, for some reason, but don't dispute the facts. GET A CLUE or stop posting useless crap.

Reality check - here was the original post:

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
If just one successful airline can make it and it sticks at GYY

Here's the statement I posted that apparently ruffled your feathers:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 11):
Great! GYY's runway can be expanded to 8900 feet...but mind you, you're citing HOOTERS FREAKING AIRLINES as an indication of future success?!

According to this USA Today article from late 2005, Hooters Air served GYY for all of about 18 months: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-12-29-hooters-air_x.htm

Don't know how I'm suddenly "extremely rude and out of line". Hooters Air was a niche carrier at best and while they may have provided a decent product, it obviously wasn't substantial enough to warrant continued investment, nor has it left a gaping hole in the commercial air market of NW Indiana. Again, we're trying to determine whether or not GYY is a viable airport. How can you logically cite Hooters' brief tenture at GYY as a marker of its viability when the only scheduled carrier that has filled the gap left by Hooters is Skybus (and they're only serving Greensboro)?

KarlB737 was looking for "one successful airline"...is/was Hooters Air your definition of a successful airline?

The bottom line is this: if GYY were so marketable right now, there'd already additional service there (LCC or legacy); I'm sorry if this fact pains you. I sense that your affinity for the airline or GYY in general are jading your opinion.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
25 BravoGolf : The reason Hooters pulled out and then shut down all operations, is that the owner and founder was very ill and died. I don't think you can blame tha
26 ExFATboy : I don't think you can characterize Hooters Air as a "successful airline", but it might be fair to say that GYY-LAS was a successful route for them. I
27 B757capt : Karl is not the issue here. Hooters ended service and shut down the airline in the end was not successful, Agreed. The cause for the shut down is bel
28 A/c dxer : Problem with GYY as said is the runway. Your climb restricted and anything smaller than a 757 you can't carry a full load. Once they move the track an
29 Cubsrule : Naperville, as mentioned, is primarily located in DuPage County (80 or more percent of the population is in DuPage)... and what construction on 55 ar
30 B757capt : Cubsrule. Welcome to my respected users list.
31 KarlB737 : I will quote myself to clarify what I meant by just one successful airline. Note first and foremost the rest of the sentence. "and it sticks". What I
32 777fan : I didn't blame it on GYY, I blamed it on the airline which was well on its way to completely ceasing operations entirely when it left GYY. I disagree
33 Tornado82 : And that's nice for you, in the Loop. But let's not forget about areas like Lansing, IL, Munster, Schererville, Merrillville, IN, etc. that are all M
34 Cubsrule : Try it westbound...
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