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How Come No Early Morning/late Evening NE Shuttle?  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Just wondering why there aren't any super early morning or late evening Shuttle flights on NYC-Washington...For example, I would think a 5:30 AM Shuttle and a 10:30 PM Shuttle would both do ok given the huge number of business travellers on this route and the fact that many people could use the evening on business and still return home the same night....Has it been tried in the past?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

There is no reason to arrive in the other city before 7AM. I do wonder about the 10:30PM though, as that seems like it would be feasible.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Business passengers generally prefer travelling between 6-9am and 5-7pm. Many of these high yielding passengers do not want to get a 1030pm flight out of LGA, which in a typical LGA delay might not get them home or to a hotel untill 1-2 in the morning.

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

US has tried times like that in the past, with no success.


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Argh....I don't care so much about an early morning flight, but I would really love to see a late-night departure from BOS-EWR or BOS-LGA. Right now, the last flight on CO to EWR is at 6:30 pm and the last flight on DL to LGA is at 8:30 pm, and sometimes, with final/class schedules or whatever, I can't leave Hanover, NH to go home until the 5 pm bus, which gets me to Logan at 7:50 -- giving me no options on CO and cutting it too close for the DL flight.

Oddly, CO has flights from EWR-BOS leaving up until 8:45 pm, however, which doesn't make sense to me. Do only BOS-bound pax have demand for late-night flights or something?


User currently offlineSQ6807 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

I would have though DCA would have a curfew of some sort? Potentially LGA too?

User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2403 times:



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 4):
Oddly, CO has flights from EWR-BOS leaving up until 8:45 pm, however, which doesn't make sense to me. Do only BOS-bound pax have demand for late-night flights or something?

In this case, it is operationally advantageous to position the equipment to RON in BOS to operate the first flights out the next morning. Obviously in EWR this is not an issue with a great number of aircraft overnighting, so if CO does not believe it would be profitable to operate a later flight BOS-EWR, it really does not need to.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2245 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
There is no reason to arrive in the other city before 7AM.

On a route like New York-Washington, there is enough back and forth traffic, including people who need to be in each city super, super bright and early....Although, I agree that the 10:30 Shuttle is more feasible than a 5:30 AM one...

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 2):
Business passengers generally prefer travelling between 6-9am and 5-7pm.

Yes, but the Delta Shuttle obviously caters to a very unique market in which peak travel times aren't that determinant (although peak time flights are obviously more in demand)

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 2):
Many of these high yielding passengers do not want to get a 1030pm flight out of LGA, which in a typical LGA delay might not get them home or to a hotel untill 1-2 in the morning.

Well that's not true...Delta and US have gotten really good with blocking the Shuttle flights to take into account delays, ground holds, etc....Most Shuttle flights are not late because they are usually blocked at 1H15M to 1H30M...

Quoting A330323X (Reply 3):
US has tried times like that in the past, with no success.

Interesting, do you remember when it was?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2240 times:



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 4):
Oddly, CO has flights from EWR-BOS leaving up until 8:45 pm, however, which doesn't make sense to me. Do only BOS-bound pax have demand for late-night flights or something?

In addition to the RON issue that 777gk mentioned, there are probably a decent amount of connecting passengers on the late EWR-BOS flights. Most of the passengers on a BOS-EWR flight who would be connecting would likely have left earlier in the day.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAruba From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

On my flight from IAD to JFK on United Express was Packed with passangers on a E170.


B738,B752,A310,A319,A321,A343,A346,Dash8,EMB170_JFK,BDL,MBJ,SJU,AUA,DKR,JNB,CPT,HDS,IAD...But South Africa is the best!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

The lack of early morning/late evening DL/US DCA/BOS/LGA shuttles may be due to limited demand. I am quite sure DL and US, as well as predecessors of the shuttles tried and found it too uneconomical. Such flights may also have pushed into overnight flight restrictions at both airports. As to NY City-DC, you do have several Amtrak trains that operate late, early and overnight for those that have to travel at those hours. In addition, many in the post-9/11 security hassles, have switched to the trains for NY-DC instead of taking the shuttles at all hours.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2177 times:



Quoting Aruba (Reply 9):
On my flight from IAD to JFK on United Express was Packed with passangers on a E170.

A 5:30AM flight would not be packed, even an E170. Possibly if they had a Monday morning only service, it might be?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2167 times:



Quoting SQ6807 (Reply 5):
I would have though DCA would have a curfew of some sort? Potentially LGA too?

They do, and now that DL flies MD-88s on the route I doubt that they meet the noise budget that allowed the earlier/later flights in the first place. Before the 738 fleet they couldn't do so.

IDK what US flies on the route these days... but I know it to be a mix of planes. If it is all Airbus planes I am sure they could still swing an early/late flight.

NS


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8903 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2152 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):

They do, and now that DL flies MD-88s on the route I doubt that they meet the noise budget that allowed the earlier/later flights in the first place. Before the 738 fleet they couldn't do so.

DL is having to use a Shuttle America E-170 on the first DCA-LGA Shuttle of the day (which comes in as the last LGA-DCA Shuttle of the evening) in order to deal with the noise requirement at DCA.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

A 530AM flight means a typical NYC day-traveller gets up at around 230AM to get ready, get to LGA in time to board. Just not enough interest, and not personally worth it for most folks that use the shuttle for same day outbound and return trips.


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

You don't really need the 530 AM departure from LGA to either BOS or DCA - but from DCA to LGA, you do. You hit the ground around 6:30 - 6:45, and you need forever to get to the city from LGA for an 8am meeting.

You leave LGA at 6:30, get to DCA at 7:30, you can still make an 8am in DC no problem at all.

NS


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8903 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Not to mention that both DL and US run 0600 shuttles...I've never bothered with those ones but from anecdotal experience (my father is a weekly traveler on the Shuttles) he says those flights are relatively empty and its the 0630 DL Shuttle and 0700 US Shuttle that really start to fill up.

User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2029 times:



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 4):
Oddly, CO has flights from EWR-BOS leaving up until 8:45 pm, however, which doesn't make sense to me. Do only BOS-bound pax have demand for late-night flights or something?



Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
In addition to the RON issue that 777gk mentioned, there are probably a decent amount of connecting passengers on the late EWR-BOS flights. Most of the passengers on a BOS-EWR flight who would be connecting would likely have left earlier in the day.

Right, Mir. Whatever else EWR might or might not be, it is a huge connecting hub for CO.

True: a 7:30 or 8:00 p.m. BOS-EWR flight theoretically could carry connecting passengers to the late India/TLV/Europe flights, but that assumes it arrives on time. With all the delays in the NE corridor, the likelihood that this particular 735 or ERJ would be running on time that late in the day is, well, very low.


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1973 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
In addition to the RON issue that 777gk mentioned, there are probably a decent amount of connecting passengers on the late EWR-BOS flights. Most of the passengers on a BOS-EWR flight who would be connecting would likely have left earlier in the day.



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 17):
True: a 7:30 or 8:00 p.m. BOS-EWR flight theoretically could carry connecting passengers to the late India/TLV/Europe flights, but that assumes it arrives on time. With all the delays in the NE corridor, the likelihood that this particular 735 or ERJ would be running on time that late in the day is, well, very low.

Both very true statements. Argh....oh well....I guess I won't hold my breath for a later flight, then.


User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1878 times:



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18):
Both very true statements. Argh....oh well....I guess I won't hold my breath for a later flight, then.

Maybe you can hope for Q400 service EWR-LEB?  Wink


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1768 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):

LGA-DCA is fine since people can take the Metro straight from DCA, but when it comes to the hassle of arriving into LGA, people have to take buses and cabs. It can be an unnecessary pain for business travelers actually because of the traffic rush hour arriving after 7 a.m.!! Even if business travelers take a sedan or a shuttle into Manhattan, they're not immune to heavy traffic volume out of LGA to Manhattan. Yes, feasibility of a flight leaving at 4:30 a.m., 5:30 a.m., and 6:30 a.m. should be looked into.

Late night flights will be nice too! People can still have an early dinner meeting or cocktail and then get to the airport (if they web-check and stuff in advance).



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1760 times:



Quoting 777gk (Reply 19):
Maybe you can hope for Q400 service EWR-LEB?

Oh boy....what I wouldn't give to have EWR-LEB service...10 minutes from campus...  cloudnine 


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