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AF/KL/DL/(NW) Disadvantage In Asia/Pacific  
User currently offlineGayStudPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 453 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

Appears AF/KL/DL will still have a partner disadvantage in Asia/Pacific. Their partner portfolio, KE and CZ, is not as strong as:

*A: NH, SQ, TG, NZ
OW: JL, CX, QF

Would any of the seven above be interested in ditching their current alliance in favor of ST?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9391 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4352 times:



Quoting GayStudPilot (Thread starter):

Talk is CI will be joining Sky and let us remember NW's Asia routes are all based out of Japan
so you really have:
NW,KE,CZ,and CI hubs in NRT,ICN,CAN/PEK(?),TPE



yep.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

They are also likely to have Malaysia at some point in time. Surprised it hasn't happened yet.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4120 times:
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Quoting GayStudPilot (Thread starter):
*A: NH, SQ, TG, NZ
OW: JL, CX, QF

you forgot *A :OZ , CA , FM
OW : KA



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

The sooner MH join, the better.

They have flights to all major Australian cities and would give great feed for intra Europe on the other end.

Would MH then add PRG or MOW for OK and SU feed?

Speaking of, does KE still have flights into PRG and if so, how are they doing?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3912 times:



Quoting Cragley (Reply 4):
Speaking of, does KE still have flights into PRG and if so, how are they doing?

Yes, 4 A330-300 nonstops a week. Not sure how they're doing but PRG is a popular tourist destination from Asia and there is probably a fair amount of business traffic. Hyundai is opening a large car assembly plant in the Czech Republic later this year to supply the European market and Kia opened a large assembly facility in neighbouring Slovakia last year.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3230 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 3680 times:



Quoting Cragley (Reply 4):
The sooner MH join, the better.

They have flights to all major Australian cities and would give great feed for intra Europe on the other end.

And the delay in adding MH to the alliance is supposed to be all AF's doing - so it's really totally in their hands now.



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User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

KE by itself has more non-stops to more destinations in Asia than any other carrier in Asia.
KE also serves more US and European destinations than any other Asian Carrier.
Combine that with NW and CZ and you have almost every country in Asia covered. (Not sure about Nepal, Burma and Bhutan)

So I don't think Asia is a problem for Skyteam.
The problem is North America to Oceania.
You can't get to Australia or New Zealand from North America very easily on CO, DL or NW.
CO is the only Skyteam carrier serving OZ with GUM-Cairns. But to get to GUM requires flying via HNL, NRT, NGO, or ICN. Sydney and Auckland....can't get there on Skyteam.
Skyteam needs CO, DL or NW to go non-stop. Under open skies and new aircraft this will happen. But by then CO will have merged with UA and then Skyteam will have a hole in Micronesia and the pacific states.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9391 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 3579 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Sydney and Auckland....can't get there on Skyteam.

wait doesn't KE have ICN-SYD and CZ have CAN-SYD?



yep.
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4755 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 3574 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1):
CI hubs in NRT,ICN,CAN/PEK(?),TPE

Oooooh no no no... China Airlines (CI) is based in Taoyuan Airport in Taipei, Taiwan. They do not fly to mainland China for political reasons, thus they do not "hub" in CAN and PEK.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
And the delay in adding MH to the alliance is supposed to be all AF's doing - so it's really totally in their hands now.

AF reluctance to allow MH into the foray stems from the fact that if they do, all Aussie code share flights would have to be routed via KUL (as opposed to their present code share with QF via SIN) and lowering their yields by doing so.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9391 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 3557 times:



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 9):


Oooooh no no no... China Airlines (CI) is based in Taoyuan Airport in Taipei, Taiwan. They do not fly to mainland China for political reasons, thus they do not "hub" in CAN and PEK.

should have wrote it different
KE-ICN
CI-TPE
NW-NRT
CZ-CAN/PEK
but yes I know CI flys from TPE and cant from PRC due to political reasons.



yep.
User currently offlineBoch From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 3553 times:



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 9):
Oooooh no no no... China Airlines (CI) is based in Taoyuan Airport in Taipei, Taiwan. They do not fly to mainland China for political reasons, thus they do not "hub" in CAN and PEK.

He meant CZ. Would you like to provide a patronizing comment about that airline instead?



KU, KL, PK, CO, AA, US, UA, WN, AS, FL, BR, MH, KE, OZ, PR, 5J
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 3541 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 8):
wait doesn't KE have ICN-SYD and CZ have CAN-SYD?

...key point...

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
The problem is North America to Oceania.

ATL-LAX-SYD 22hrs
ATL-ICN-SYD 27hrs
ATL-GUM-CNS-SYD 29hrs



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently onlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3088 times:
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Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Combine that with NW and CZ and you have almost every country in Asia covered. (Not sure about Nepal, Burma and Bhutan)

Korean Air has a 3x weekly 772 flight going non-stop from ICN to KTM in Nepal.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3024 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Kia opened a large assembly facility in neighbouring Slovakia last year.

There are always some Koreans from KIA on PRG-ILZ flights (Kia plant is about 30km east of ILZ).



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2919 times:



Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 13):
Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Combine that with NW and CZ and you have almost every country in Asia covered. (Not sure about Nepal, Burma and Bhutan)

Korean Air has a 3x weekly 772 flight going non-stop from ICN to KTM in Nepal.

Also CZ does RGN and KTM from CAN. As for Bhutan, well, only the local airlines serves the country.


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

It is still true that skyteam remains weak in the pacific. So here's a thought: if all the skyteam members started getting along, they could work out something to Australia through HNL. CO already does HNL from EWR, IAH, and LAX. NW does HNL from MSP, PDX, SEA, and SFO. Delta does HNL from ATL, SLC and LAX. And they all codeshare already with Hawaiian from a bunch of other cities (LAX, SFO, SAN, SAC, SEA, PDX, PHX, LAS, SJC).

So there would be decent feed. All they would need to do is tweak schedules and then get one of the three to start HNL-SYD followed by HNL-MEL and so on.

Yes, I know that's easier said than done.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2826 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 16):
then get one of the three to start HNL-SYD followed by HNL-MEL and so on.

NW has rights for HNL-SYD but with Open Skies to OZ, they are all bound to go for it.

Since CO might just merge with UA and then leave Skyteam and DL merge with NW, then they all will start OZ with only AA and US looking for access. AA has it easy though with QF as their partner.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
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