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New Zealand Aviation Thread #24  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12213 posts, RR: 18
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12055 times:
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Welcome to Thread #24, in thread #23 New Zealand Aviation Thread #23 (by 777ER Feb 10 2008 in Civil Aviation)#1 we discussed and learnt:

- Stuff.co.nz poll shows that the majority of the public don't want secuirty upgraded for turbo-prop flights after an NZ flight was hijacked recently.
- Hawkes Bay is pushing for Australian flights.
- EK and its NZ operation and future possible routes, like WLG.
- OzJet will launch 4x weekly flights to PMR, but no date has been announced yet.
- Its been revealed that living beside or near an airport is bad for your health, and will result in bad blood pressure which causes heart attacks and strokes at an early age.
- KiwiJet has reached an agreement with an Australian airline to provide feeder traffic for its new domestic ops, which has been delayed till early 2009 at the Australian airlines request. Kiwijet will launch with a fleet of RJ100s and will operate 8x routes to start with.
- Discussed NZs B772 fleet and its new B773 fleet thats on order.
- WLG shows off its new International Terminal which is yet to be built, which will most likly become the most photogrpahed building in New Zealand due to its design.

And we sadly heard on TV1, TV3 and read on here and on stuff.co.nz that:

- A Cessna 152 and a Helipro helicopter smashed into each other above Paraparaumu, which is just north of Wellington. The crash happened above Placemakers Paraparaumu. The helicopter landed on the floor of Placemakers, killing the pilots on impact and the Cessna landed in a street beside Placemakers. Wreckage was scattered over 200 metres on both sides of Placemakers. One of the helicopter pilots killed was a pilot with the Palmerston North Square Trust Rescue Helicopter.

Let thread #24 begin.

222 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

Let's start off with an opportunity for Koruman to crow:

SHANGHAI SCHEDULE CHANGE

Air New Zealand wishes to advise the Wednesday and Friday services AKL-PVG (NZ89) have been cancelled for the period 2-25 Apr 08 and the Thursday and Saturday services PVG-AKL (NZ88) for the period 3-26 Apr 08. Eighteen flights will be affected by this cancellation in total. Passengers on the cancelled services will be re-accommodated on next available flight.



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User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12004 times:

Not unexpeceted. Shanghai based crew probably only need to come down here once every month. Not too shabby a job to have that much free time. How many days a month do you spend in the air TG992?

User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11978 times:



Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
Let's start off with an opportunity for Koruman to crow:

SHANGHAI SCHEDULE CHANGE

Any idea why? It is rather a late announcement, I am sure many people have booked on these flights.

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Kiwijet will launch with a fleet of RJ100s and will operate 8x routes to start with.

Assuming they are leasing these aircrafts, can they postpone the start of the lease contract for a year and still secure these aircrafts?!


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11986 times:
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Quoting Cchan (Reply 3):
Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Kiwijet will launch with a fleet of RJ100s and will operate 8x routes to start with.

Assuming they are leasing these aircrafts, can they postpone the start of the lease contract for a year and still secure these aircrafts?!

Obviously each leasing company is different. If the owner can find another airline to use them intill Kiwijet need them, then yes. I believe I read somewhere that the RJs will be leased from a UK owner, which I think is BAe


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11975 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 2):
How many days a month do you spend in the air TG992?

Average about 90 flying hours per month, which translates to roughly 10 days at home a month.

Would you care to explain why these flight cancellations are 'expected'?



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User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11962 times:



Quoting TG992 (Reply 5):
Would you care to explain why these flight cancellations are 'expected'?

When NZ announced last December temporarily decreasing PVG from July to November, the 3 times weekly flights to PVG did revert back to 5 on schedule. And then they canceled PVG to 3 times from end of April, earlier then annouced and canceled PEK from November with no explanation. Also PVG will not revert back to 5 from November. Just last week, the 2 weekly PEK flights become bookable again for flights after November. There has been too many changes as late so any more change won't surprise me. This does not make sense when they are still recruiting Shanghai based crew.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11950 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 6):
This does not make sense when they are still recruiting Shanghai based crew.

Im sure we will see the PVG end up operating the PEK flights too so i can see why they are still recruiting assuming they do both flights ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11950 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 6):
This does not make sense when they are still recruiting Shanghai based crew.

The plan is to run daily flights to China either later this year or next so they need more crew.

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 6):
And then they canceled PVG to 3 times from end of April, earlier then annouced and canceled PEK from November with no explanation. Also PVG will not revert back to 5 from November.

PEK was never cancelled it just wasn't bookable. And I thought PVG would revert to 5 weekly in November making daily flights. Maybe not this year?


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11928 times:

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons - NZ has just completed recruiting a large number of Chinese speaking crew for the AKL longhaul base.


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User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11925 times:



Quoting TG992 (Reply 9):

Would that indicate that there may be the intention of just having the base in NZ? Or would that be more for the NZ38/39 service


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11909 times:

The new 'rock' design for WLG, please tell me thats not the final design? It looks ridiculous and absolutely stupid IMO.

I understand that WLG as a city usually likes to do things a little different and with a bit more 'flare' than the likes of AKL and CHC, but this is just an eye sore

Anyone here agree or disagree?


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11875 times:



Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
Let's start off with an opportunity for Koruman to crow



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 6):
This does not make sense when they are still recruiting Shanghai based crew.

I'm not actually going to smirk, because this is descending into chaos.

On the one hand, recruitment for Chinese growth continues as per the long-term plan. But Norm Thompson's comments, plus the long-term Shanghai reduction, plus now the short-term cancellations show that senior management are starting to contemplate the possibility that China is a failed route, and so they are cutting their losses.

The latest actions pretty much end the viability of AKL-PVG, though, because the customers from China have third world leave entitlements, and a 2 day schedule change basically cancels their vacation. Air NZ has basically pi**ed on its chips wth Chinese group travel agents now.

The fact that this failure was predictable doesn't make it any less sad, especially for those Chinese who entrusted their holiday in Air New Zealand.

The unfolding Chinese debacle is sad, not funny.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11859 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 12):
On the one hand, recruitment for Chinese growth continues as per the long-term plan. But Norm Thompson's comments, plus the long-term Shanghai reduction, plus now the short-term cancellations show that senior management are starting to contemplate the possibility that China is a failed route, and so they are cutting their losses.

This is how I understand the recruitment of Chinese speaking Auckland-based crew. Obviously the routes that needs them the most are AKL-PVG/PEK. Maybe NZ will implement a mixture of Auckland and Shanghai based crew on these routes. Can we see this as a sign of NZ extending PVG to Europe because the English skills of current Shanghai based crew won't be sufficient to cope with transit passengers (mostly non Chinese) once this becomes a reality? I know I have been only brainstorming but I just can't think of why else NZ would want more Chinese speaking flight attendents on any routes.

[Edited 2008-02-19 04:39:03]

User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11843 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 6):
Just last week, the 2 weekly PEK flights become bookable again for flights after November

They probably just loaded the Northern winter schedules on the system.

Has NZ "firmed" the domestic schedules in April? Very few A320 flights!  Sad

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 11):
The new 'rock' design for WLG, please tell me thats not the final design? It looks ridiculous and absolutely stupid IMO.

I understand that WLG as a city usually likes to do things a little different and with a bit more 'flare' than the likes of AKL and CHC, but this is just an eye sore

Anyone here agree or disagree?

Not as stupid as the Singapore airlines aircraft in the background. The chance of that happening is rather slim. I hope the construction of those stupid rocks won't translate to a hike in the already expensive car parking charges.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 12):
The latest actions pretty much end the viability of AKL-PVG, though, because the customers from China have third world leave entitlements, and a 2 day schedule change basically cancels their vacation. Air NZ has basically pi**ed on its chips wth Chinese group travel agents now.

I don't think so. If they go long haul, they will spend a week or so in NZ. If they are taking a weekend off to HKG or BKK, then you are right. I have seen some Chinese group tours in HKG, some of the guides basically yell at the poor tourists. It seems some Chinese group tour companies do not treat their clients with respect, so why do they deserve any respect from airlines?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 11788 times:
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Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 11):

I actually like it. It shows Wellington's idea of going the extra mile to create things, and not just create normal boring things, like boring buildings, like take Te-Papa, where else have you got a building in New Zealand like that, that has a design like that? IMHO, once its built and completed, it will become one of New Zealands most photographed building, if not the the most photographed and will become an icon that people need to photograph, which in turn will help with pax numbers at WLG. I've spoken to several people over this last night, and they all believe WLG has the most modern and best looking terminal in New Zealand. Every one else in the country, is to scared to think outside the box, but Wellington City, is clearly a city that likes to think outside the box!

Quoting Cchan (Reply 14):
I hope the construction of those stupid rocks won't translate to a hike in the already expensive car parking charges.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't WLGs charges actually cheaper then the other main airports? WLGs parking will actually grow as part o the upgrade, so I think the extra parks will help offset any extra costs.

Ditching pilot saved by beacon picked up in NZ


An emergency beacon picked up in New Zealand has saved the life of an eccentric pilot who crash-landed his vintage plane in shark-infested waters in the Caribbean.


The Briton, Maurice Kirk, 62, ditched during his attempt to fly round the world in the World War 2 spotter aircraft, a Piper Cub, The Times newspaper reported in London.

Kirk, a vet who claims Scots ancestry, was rescued at the weekend after coastguards picked up a signal from his emergency beacon from the New Zealand Rescue Co-ordination Centre.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4408315a10.html

Infratil's profit shrinks 70pc in a flat third quarter


Infratil has posted a $4.1 million profit for the past nine months, 70 per cent lower than the previous comparable period.


The company's earnings, $240.5 million before interest, tax, depreciation, amortisation and other factors for the nine months to December 31, 2007, were up 137 per cent compared to the previous period's $101.3 million.

Infratil said the result reflected a flat third quarter, consistent with results from the first half of the year, and the discrepancy with last year's figures was because of $38 million of asset sales during the last nine months of 2006.

By contrast, the company experienced $8.1 million of impairments in the nine months to December 2007.

The leading light of Infratil's stable is Wellington International Airport, which announced a bold new $53 million revamp for its international terminal before the release of the result. The airport, two-thirds owned by Infratil, boosted its profit by 32 per cent for the third quarter to $5.9 million.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4407477a13.html


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 11760 times:



Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 11):
The new 'rock' design for WLG, please tell me thats not the final design? It looks ridiculous and absolutely stupid IMO.

You have closely paraphrased the headline in the Bilbao newspaper when the design for the Guggenheim Bilbao was first released. While not supposing that The Rock will challenge that building's current world dominating status I think that it has some of the same edgy, challenging qualities. Personally I just love it.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 11754 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 14):
They probably just loaded the Northern winter schedules on the system.

Not quite true. When they announced PEK last December this was definitely bookable but disappeared after a while and now returned on schedule again.


User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

AirNZ also hired French, German, Cantonese, Korean, Japanese as with Mandarin speaking crew. Read into it what you like.

PS: TG992...Say Congrats to the Boy for me. I just heard!


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 11709 times:

Qantas have a full page advert in Otago Daily Times with their sale. Reading the small print, it says that flights to and from AKL will attract a $13 fee in each direction. This is not the Departure Tax. Has anyone heard of this fee? Does any other airline charge this?

Also, QF is offering a fare to Santiago - this would mean flying to Sydney to catch this one.


User currently offlineSQ6807 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11693 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 19):
Qantas have a full page advert in Otago Daily Times with their sale. Reading the small print, it says that flights to and from AKL will attract a $13 fee in each direction. This is not the Departure Tax. Has anyone heard of this fee? Does any other airline charge this?

Are the QF fares advertised ex-CHC or DUD?


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5264 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11685 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 19):
Also, QF is offering a fare to Santiago - this would mean flying to Sydney to catch this one.

QF also code share on the AKL-SCL leg so you wouldnt have to go to AKL-SYD-AKL-SCL. You just do the AKL-SCL leg.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11686 times:



Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 13):
This is how I understand the recruitment of Chinese speaking Auckland-based crew. Obviously the routes that needs them the most are AKL-PVG/PEK. Maybe NZ will implement a mixture of Auckland and Shanghai based crew on these routes. Can we see this as a sign of NZ extending PVG to Europe because the English skills of current Shanghai based crew won't be sufficient to cope with transit passengers (mostly non Chinese) once this becomes a reality? I know I have been only brainstorming but I just can't think of why else NZ would want more Chinese speaking flight attendents on any routes.

[Edited 2008-02-19 04:39:03]

Hi The PVG based crew speak very good english and wont have a problem being understood by english speakers // This is from speaking to them .. They actually have a great sence of humour very much like the kiwi one that surprised me .. As for the extra Chinese language speakers they will probably be put on the AKL-HKG route im guessing mind you as they speak english as well they can be utilised on all routes as well as required ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11664 times:
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Quoting Nzrich (Reply 22):
Hi The PVG based crew speak very good english and wont have a problem being understood by english speakers // This is from speaking to them .. They actually have a great sence of humour very much like the kiwi one that surprised me ..

Agree entirely - flew PVG-AKL about three months ago and was unsure what to expect from the crew after having heard mixed reviews - was very pleased to find that they were competent , professional and friendly ... and most of all that they were actually real people just like the regular NZ crews . I always think that the crews must be one of NZs strongest selling points - given the choice between an NZ crew or a pod of identical plastic SQ robots I know which I prefer any day



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11650 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 15):
IMHO, once its built and completed, it will become one of New Zealands most photographed building, if not the the most photographed and will become an icon that people need to photograph

IMO it will be photographed alot, but not for the right reasons

Quoting 777ER (Reply 15):
which in turn will help with pax numbers at WLG

I don't know about that, I wouldn't think many people would fly to an airport just to see a terminal building

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 16):
You have closely paraphrased the headline in the Bilbao newspaper when the design for the Guggenheim Bilbao was first released

didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one guys.


25 Alangirvan : ex-CHC. For SCL, I thought the routing might have been CHC-SYD-SCL, but the advert also shows a nice fare to Nadi, which would be on Air Pacific. Ad
26 NZ107 : That's cheeky. They'll be getting a bit more now that they are doing this as a lot come in through AKL and then out to Aussie via other centres. But
27 TG992 : Put me in your corner, -SUJ. I think they look like a pair of giant testicles, or two clumps of horse manure! BTW, apparently the number of Chinese-s
28 Cchan : Comparing the parking charges of the airport to the city is better than comparing to other airports. The problem is that all airport parking tend to
29 777ER : Keep in mind that the artist impressions usually make it look different compared to once somethings built. When Porirua Citys new indoor sports centr
30 Post contains images ZKSUJ : So are you implying that you would like the real thing to be different to the artists impression as well?
31 Koruman : Please, please don't tell me that the racial understanding of management is so bad that when they close down Shanghai they intend to use Mandarin-spe
32 ZKSUJ : How does this 'Mayor Idol' thing on the Air NZ site work?
33 Cchan : Before the HKG route continues to LHR and PVG started, the majority of passengers on the HKG flight were on transit to mainland China. There are, ind
34 777ER : Thats the point about what I'm trying to say, you can park free on the main roads, but you have to pay big fees to park at the airport carpark, cause
35 Post contains links 777ER : Waiving air baggage fee a 'safety risk' A former Air Nelson employee sacked for failing to charge people carrying excess baggage has taken the airline
36 TG992 : The new longhaul crew are Auckland based and are on the same collective contract as the rest of us AKL based crew. (In other words, about double the
37 Airnewzealand : You miss the point that passengers of ALL languages travel on different sectors! For example, On our QF services to SIN from SYD, we generally have F
38 Post contains images TG992 : No idea, Airnewzealand.. I'm pretty sure the website is just the standard 'a second language will be an advantage to your application' and hasn't been
39 Axio : It's all over and Shadbolt won. So IVC-CHC will have 1000 $1 fares tomorrow, and the other three routes will have cheap fares ($29, $39, $49 I think)
40 Post contains links SpinalTap : http://promos.airnz.co.nz/mi/ Will be: IVC-CHC $1 PMR-AKL $20 DUD-CHC $30 HLZ-WLG $40 (each will have 500 outgoing and 500 return seats at these pric
41 Cchan : When will the 737 regional flights be loaded?
42 SQ6807 : The connection between these routings and the possible new 737s routes was even noted by media. I have to say, DUD-CHC is a thoroughly useless route
43 Rwy21 : Its been done before, and over winter as usual the mid afternoon flights CHC-DUD-CHC are 737s again. The flight time is pretty much the same as the H
44 SQ6807 : You make a fair point, I was getting confused with the WLG-CHC flight time, don't ask me why. That said, I am skeptical about using the 733s on these
45 DavidByrne : For me this reinforces the argument that if NZ is anxious about being able to compete with DJ's 738s on provincial routes, then it should look to E-j
46 Flyjetstar : That's not right. CHC-DUD is around 35-40 minutes on a 733 - like CHC-WLG. It is only an hour in the ATR. WLG-HLZ and PMR - AKL is also 1 hour in an
47 Post contains links NZA320 : Chch secures jet contract Christchurch's jet-engine repair and testing centre has won a contract to maintain engines for Singapore's Jetstar Asia Airw
48 Post contains links NZA320 : Extra Virgin flights due Pacific Blue is expected to announce flights to Dunedin and Invercargill soon as it ramps up its domestic network It is under
49 Post contains images Rwy21 : Sorry Flyjetstar was talking about the current situation flight times which you correctly point out as I said were around an hour, not what the 733 w
50 SQ6807 : I am suprised but I guess a little bemused that DJ are keen to extend their services to DUD and IVC before they increase frequency in the AKL-WLG-CHC
51 Jamie86 : I certainly wouldn't mind jumping across, would appriciate any imformation you might hear of about air NZ recruiting
52 Post contains images Axio : Mayor idol has done very well as far as sheer numbers are concerned. AKL/PMR was sold out by 12.30, a window of an hour and a half; and IVC/CHC is sol
53 Flyjetstar : The ODT is reporting on its front page this morning that DJ are set for flight to DUD and IVC from June this year.
54 Alangirvan : I read the ODT article - I think all the Dunedin people want to see the deal done and dusted before they celebrate. We will probably know when Pacific
55 NZ1 : NZ is to up the freq to YVR from 3 to 4 flights per week from 4 Dec to 28 Mar 2009 to meet seasonal demand. This extra service is to operate on a Thur
56 777ER : About bloody time. I'm sure many WLG users are fed up with the high fares that NZ and QF charge to SYD and MEL. BNE isn't to bad, especially with the
57 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ holds on to $1m Air New Zealand is withholding about $145,000 a month in increased landing fees from Wellington and Auckland airports, with the
58 DavidByrne : This is evidence they they HAVE got something right! I was particularly interested that they are already talking about and gunning for daily services
59 SunriseValley : This one was always a "slam dunk" , there have been years of experience in building traffic between N.Z. and Canada via HNL/LAX/SFO. In my view this
60 Post contains links 777ER : Airline wins appeal over landing fees Air Nelson has won a long-running case against the transport minister and Hawke's Bay Airport over increased lan
61 Pilotdude09 : See the airnz.com.au's Grab a seat is now operational with some great deals, today PER-AKL was $299! what a steal.
62 Koruman : Is there by any chance a lesson to be learned here? Routes terminating in Nagoya, Fukuoka, Taipei, Singapore and Hong Kong have had to be axed in the
63 DavidByrne : Thinking about PacBlue's plans for New Zealand . . . DUD and IVC are being frequently mentioned as the most likely beneficiaries of their expansion. P
64 JoFMO : I would draw a different conclusion. One reason why routes to North America work is the fact that AKL functions as a hub between NA and Australia. Th
65 ZKSUJ : I don't think they can at the moment given aircraft configurations and the size and/or avaliability of our quads. As I understand this may be on the
66 Cchan : In the past years before the PVG route started up, NZ AKL-HKG flights used to have a large proportion of passengers who transit in HKG and continue t
67 ZKSUJ : Its all good that some people want jets, but just watch them start bitching and calling NZ 'unfair' when the ticket prices go up due to increased ope
68 DavidByrne : I agree - that is exactly the trade-off that has to be made, and my guess is that the "trial" of two further 733s for use on provincial routes is to
69 DavidByrne : A further point - I doubt that fares on jet-served provincial routes will rise because DJ will seek to match NZ, and NZ will be in no position to rai
70 Alangirvan : Saturday Otago Daily Times had an update - they managed to find someone from Pacific Blue to speak to them. The service will start in the middle of th
71 Rongotai : My anecdotal experience makes this assertion dubious. On my recent trips LHR-HKG-AKL - the most recent being 48 hours ago - both had near full Busine
72 ZKSUJ : Thats true mate. But wasn't there a statement a while back saying that if RJs or 'jets' were put on regional routes, then fare increases were likely?
73 DavidByrne : My recollection (can anyone confirm?) is that NZ had said that a decision was expected about March. But I'm struggling a little to see how they can m
74 NZA320 : Now that Bombardier has given the go ahead to sell the C-series aircraft family, it would be a very smart move for NZ to acquire them to replace thei
75 777ER : The reason DJ stopped WLG-SYD was because they were starting the AKL-OOL, BNE services and they needed the aircraft for that. A CHC aircraft wouldn't
76 DavidByrne : That's interesting - I wasn't aware that Bombardier had given the "go-ahead to sell". However, that isn't yet a "launch" as such, as far as I underst
77 NZ1 : David, NZ will not be replacing 733's with A320's. The 733 is going to be around for a while yet, and I think it is likely it will eventually be repl
78 Alangirvan : The C-Series looks like a brilliant plane, and so does the Mitsubishi RJ, though MRJ have only announced a 90 seater as their biggest plane. If Bombar
79 Koruman : I wouldn't be me if I didn't find a way of weaving China and Tahiti into this thread, would I?....... The stranding of 11 Chinese visitors in Tahiti l
80 SunriseValley : NZ would be helping to leverage the possibility of the NZ/P&W engine overhaul shop getting the overhaul work on the GTF engine.
81 DavidByrne : Maybe that's the current thinking - but my proposition isn't to do with the specific aircraft involved, but with the prospect in the longer term of a
82 JoFMO : I would like to see NZ acquiring 49% of TN. But not because of traffic rights. NZ already could fly daily LAX-FRA if they wanted. Not sure about LAX-
83 Kiwiandrew : Hi Koruman , do you have a link for TNs claim ? French Polynesia is a TOM rather than a DOM so I would not have thought that they qualify as an EU ca
84 Kiwiandrew : having recently dropped PPT-LAX and announced the dropping of NAN-LAX I would be very surprised to see them try to take on NOU-LAX - looking at great
85 Koruman : Actually it is now a POM (Pays d'Outre Mer). On my most recent trip to PPT I read an interview in Les Nouvelles about European expansion plans now th
86 JoFMO : I think the market AKL-NOU-LAX could be an interesting one. But only if they get some kind of cooperation with TN. People from Nouvelle Caledonia don
87 Kiwiandrew : don't you mean SB ( AirCalin) rather than TN ( Air Tahiti Nui ) ? So far as I am aware TN dont even fly to Nouvelle Caledonie
88 Post contains links 777ER : Security upgrade after hijacking bid Passengers flying on small commuter planes will be screened and security staff employed under proposals to streng
89 JoFMO : No, I meant TN. SO that NZ flies AKL-NOU-LAX thrice a week and people can transfer on a TN flight to CDG.
90 JoFMO : No, I meant TN. SO that NZ flies AKL-NOU-LAX thrice a week and people can transfer on a TN flight to CDG. Or if they want to the French countryside t
91 Koruman : I would urge real caution about getting into long-haul operations from Noumea or Papeete without a significant financial stake in Air Calin and/or Ai
92 DavidByrne : Not sure about the hook-ups proposed with SB and TN at NOU etc, but the feeder from LAX is an interesting idea in its own right - if Canada is doing
93 Koruman : The Noumea / Papeete stuff is a distraction to the issue of whether an A320 based at Los Angeles or Vancouver (or both) could deliver useful feeder t
94 DavidByrne : I don't necessarily disagree, but note that QF justifies LAX-JFK-LAX through the cargo it carries. Whether it actually makes a profit, I don't know,
95 SQ6807 : There's a post over on the Australian thread that says EK has indicated that SYD-AKL will be with the 380 from Feb 09, and that at the same time SYD-C
96 SunriseValley : Reading between the lines, this tells me that the 737NG is part of the package that NZ negotiated with Boeing when the 777 order was placed and prici
97 DavidByrne : Maybe in theory yes, but the UA schedules to JFK are about the worst you could imagine for connecting to the current NZ services at LAX (and SFO). Mo
98 SQ6807 : That would certainly be a consideration. I am trying to think of examples where similar models are used. I know IB and AF station 32S at MIA for flig
99 DavidByrne : I'd be keen to know the source of the original info from NZ1. If it's serious "intelligence", then maybe. However, if it's speculation by NZ1, then I
100 Koruman : The problem is that codeshares just don't deliver new O+D customers to a route. Vancouver residents (and San Francisco ones before them) have been ab
101 NZ1 : I agree, a consolidation would be good, and provide a lot of benefits. There's no source as such, just info from various meetings I've been to, which
102 777ER : Happy birthday to New Zealand Aviation Threads. This time last year I launched the first NZ Aviation thread, and one year on were now on thread #24. A
103 Post contains links 777ER : Airport security on agenda at Cabinet Recommendations for tightening security at regional airports are expected to be put before Cabinet on Monday. Th
104 ZKNBX : Doubt that. I just flew YVR-AKL on NZ and there were three connections from YYC (a couple and a single traveller) alone in the one row, next to me. A
105 Post contains links 777ER : Board says sell airport shares to Canadians Auckland International Airport's board has done a u-turn and is unanimously recommending shareholders acce
106 Knid : Hi there, I'm new to airliners.net, and have been reading through the past few threads, and have a few questions about Koruman's North American Hub...
107 ZKNBX : Anyone know whay NZ 5 is cancelled and NZ39 to HKG is showing delayed until 0800 Tuesday. Did the 744 fall over in AKL or LAX? Any ideas what the prob
108 Aotearoa : In regard to the long standing debate on A320 vs B737NG for a posible 737 300 replacement; here's my few cents worth...... There is no doubt that the
109 Post contains images Zkpilot : As much is LAX is one of the worst airports around (particularly for most people arriving there), it is actually not so bad for Canadians leaving Can
110 ZK-NBT : I believe the 744 Sunday night NZ6 AKL-LAX turned back rego ZK-SUH, meaning another NZ6 became NZ6806 operating on Monday morning from an inbound 744
111 Koruman : I can't help thinking that a purchase of either more A320s or the 737NG would be woefully unwise. Air NZ is already stuck operating virtually the las
112 TG992 : Some details on our upcoming addition of two more 733s.. The first aircraft will arrive on 14th March and be in operation by 29th March. The second wi
113 Cchan : I also think that it is best to either 1) wait for the next generation product, or 2) buy some 319/320 now. Unless they want to operated the last 737
114 Post contains links 777ER : MP warns of regional airport security costs Cabinet is today to consider a report on aviation security following the attempted hijacking of a small pl
115 HLZCPH : Would you replace 14 frames (A320 order) or 28 (737NG order), as NZ must move to a single short haul fleet to simplify the bussiness? The difference
116 Post contains links NZA320 : Correct, they are allowed to offer it to customers and they're just wanting firm commitments before officially launching the aircraft. Yes they have
117 GarethW : Obviously this isnt a huge issue if they just keep operatiing until they get back to home base? Is this the ex-RG aircraft? Sorry have been blocked f
118 Alangirvan : It is an Air NZ or NAC tradition to buy aircraft just as they are about to go out of production. If you watch the 25 years of 737 service in NZ video,
119 Post contains links NZ107 : Kiwijet Launch Delayed http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10494679 Well yeah I know that no one thinks it'll work... But it
120 DavidByrne : I think this news story was out about 10 days ago - good that Newstalk ZB's on to it!
121 Koruman : All this E jet C jet stuff may just be getting a little out of hand. There are a lot of E jets in the USA, but almost all belong to the invisible Rep
122 777ER : I got an e-mail about this around 10 days ago, with a link to the source. Read reply #86 in NZ Aviation #23
123 NZ1 : The operating costs are not "catastrophic", as you put it. How did you work that one out. Southwest are still buying the -700, and have truckload of
124 DavidByrne : I'm wondering if anyone can provide a source for a meaningful comparison between (say) the E190, the C-110 equivalent, 733, 319, 318, Q400, ATR72 etc
125 Post contains images HLZCPH : I wonder how much a "cheap lease" would actually be?
126 NZ1 : I could tell you the exact amount actually, but it's not worth my job. Lets just say, you wouldn't be able to lease one at that price in today's mark
127 Koruman : Hi NZ1, thanks for your reply. My language might be a bit inflammatory, because I'm not sure we disagree much on this. My point is that in 2008 the 7
128 Zkpilot : I haven't heard people suggest that NZ orders around 2010 for a 2016 delivery.... More like order in the next year or so (2009 possibly 2010) for 201
129 TG992 : Air New Zealand flight NZ175 from Auckland to Perth was diverted to Adelaide last night due to a medical emergency. A female customer became unwell du
130 NZ747 : Perhaps they could lease a fleet of B737G's and perhaps some H's until a better product such as the boeing Y1 become available? Would be good to see
131 SXI899 : Not entirely, I'd say that it's dependant on the stage lengths being flown. The OEW of a B73G is around 5,000kgs higher than that of a B733, and alth
132 Koruman : That's pretty much what I'm saying. Don't be the last to order the 737NG when delivery won't occur until the Y1 is already launched. As for an order
133 AerorobNZ : SUH came back with a Weather radar issue and another system went down, it was then rescheduled to around 5pm the following evening, it pushed back an
134 777ER : The Ministry of Health or MAF requires the aircraft to be sprayed with anti-biotics or something like that. Its something that kills bugs like Scorpi
135 Koruman : Am I being my usual bigoted self thinking that the airline's actions suggest that if one of AKL-HKG-LHR, AKL-LAX-LHR or AKL-LAX has to be sacrificed
136 Cchan : Correct me if I am wrong. The decision is most likely made to affect the least number of customers (so less to compensate). Also, NZ38/39 park at LHR
137 Post contains links 777ER : Airport shares fall on tax law change Auckland International Airport's share price took a big tumble on the back of changes to a tax law that would pr
138 AerorobNZ : No. In the instance of last night, it was delayed because the aircraft that operated NZ6805 was originally due back to be outbound as NZ39, but it wa
139 SQ6807 : ROT-ZQN seems like such an obvious route for NZ to serve nonstop. With the development of new routes like WLG-ZQN and CHC-TRG I really have cause to w
140 Alangirvan : Why is all this talk of C Jets and E jets getting out of hands? Are there still some people who think that E jets are 50 seaters? No question that 50
141 Legacyins : Air New Zealand's "PINK" flight will depart SFO this evening for the Sydney Mardi gras. The check in counters at SFO are very festive with everyone dr
142 777ER : I raised this possible route either in thread #23 or #22. It would be a perfect route for either the Ejet or Cjet due to its length and flight times.
143 777ER : I was just looking at fares on NZ and DJ for WLG-CHC for April, and I remember that QF said they were re-starting their WLG-CHC flights, when do these
144 DavidByrne : From another thread about the QF Annual Report: I was particularly interested in the word "particularly" as applied to Shanghai. What's the difference
145 Koruman : As ever, I have bad tidings to report about Shanghai. The Sydney-Shanghai route is very similar to any given Europe-Shanghai route: the premium cabin
146 Post contains links SunriseValley : Fair use...In a copyrighted story Radio New Zealand claims that international air capacity to New Zealand decreased by around 258000 seats in the past
147 DavidByrne : I knew I could count on you, K'man !!!
148 Xiaotung : Another factor is New Zealand has far more strict requirements than Australia in terms of investment immigration. It makes Chinese millionaires virtu
149 Koruman : I have been suspecting for some time that Air NZ, Singapore Airlines and Emirates have a complex demand and price-fixing arrangement going on. I gues
150 SQ6807 : I think you are presenting a bit of a conspiracy theory there K'man. I acknowledge your analysis of high/low yield routes in the Pacific has been str
151 Alangirvan : If people keep themselves up to date with what Qantas are doing they will know that Qantas are adding twice weekly Melbourne-Shanghai flights startin
152 Koruman : I absolutely agree with that assertion. But an Air New Zealand 777-200ER has just (I presume) landed at Sydney from San Francisco and it is perfectly
153 Cchan : Very few. Three times return a year is not very frequent compared to people who go for business every week or month. Does someone has actual figures
154 GarethW : Agree with that. Its an 'opportunity cost' situation where NZ could quite easily load the 772 with more J seating and make a decent effort with the Y
155 Koruman : Firstly Alan, guilty as charged. Sorry. Secondly though, just review those facts you have provided. Qantas believes that Melbourne can support 470 se
156 Alangirvan : Other things - When Qantas introduces new services, they have to fight the claim that they are Sydney-centric, that is part of the reason they will be
157 Koruman : Air New Zealand should pay particular attention to the business model it is using for China and Japan. The fact Qantas uses Qantas (36J/199Y) A330 se
158 Airnewzealand : Just to let you know Koruman... Shanghai is performing VERY well for QF...is quite a profitable market for QF...whereas Beijing and Mumbai are still N
159 Post contains links NZA320 : Pacific blue have a special with 29,000 seats for $29 for 29 hours on the Auckland - Wellington and Wellington - Christchurch domestic routes. Travel
160 NZ107 : I believe a company like QF would like to get their brand name showing in China rather than JQ.. As China continues to develop, QF might have more op
161 Koruman : I'm not disagreeing at all. The fact that I think that Auckland-Shanghai is a dumb route does not mean that I think that Shanghai is a poor destinati
162 Zkpilot : Wondering how much the winglets weigh and if they can be an option (ie removed... I know they are an optional extra on -5,-6) because winglets wouldn
163 Chinaeastern : Agree, and QF can quite effectively use the 2 weekly frequencies to attract the high yield market in combination with the 5 weekly SYD-PVG operations
164 Airnewzealand : Hey Koruman, THanks for taking the time to explain what you are saying in many of your discussions...it makes more sense when you explain your reason
165 DavidByrne : From another source, I note that MU's flights from MEL and BNE to PVG are to be/have been reduced: BNE - all flights to be suspended from 20 Feb onwar
166 SQ6807 : This is consistent with K'man's reasoning that QF services are sustained by high yield Australian mining contracts. I would think those sort of passe
167 Koruman : You could argue that. But 5 Air NZ 777-200ERs drowned the market in 1565 Economy seats per week, while Qantas has two flights with only 199 Economy s
168 SQ6807 : Excepting the Chinese carriers, I think you are probably right. It has been interesting to watch the US majors clamour for limited Chinese flights. I
169 Post contains links Axio : Ozjet have finally started selling tickets to Palmerston North. The initial schedule is launched, starting at 2 services a week to BNE and 1 to SYD. B
170 Post contains links Flyjetstar : Air New Zealand, 80 owned by the Government, today reported it lifted its December half year net profit by 58 per cent to $115 million. It hiked its i
171 Cchan : These Aus-China flights operated by Chinese carriers are also popular options with Chinese students or immigrants in New Zealand. These flights are o
172 SQ6807 : That is not cheap. Especially not as a starting sale. Does a 732 have the legs for trans tasman, I thought it was once suggested it didn't?
173 Koruman : I probably wouldn't object to a Zeal767 subsidiary being set up with 24 premium Economy and 230 Economy seats, and being used to operate two aircraft
174 Xiaotung : If not mistaken, MU is also reducing London and New York. I think it reflects some serious management problems within MU rather than the problem of t
175 GarethW : Sounds extremely ordinary to me. What incentive is there for the general public (those that aren't from Palmerston North of course) to a, fly to Palm
176 Axio : Their sale fares are comparable to AirNZ. For instance WLG/BNE is NZ205 each way, plus taxes which comes to NZ$513 return. For the same dates (Apr 4
177 Post contains links Axio : My feeling is either they can't get the plane in time and are just starting with the 732, or their site/database has not been updated to handle the n
178 DavidByrne : This for me begs the question as to whether the 73G isn't "too much aircraft" for a 733 replacement, and that something smaller and lighter should be
179 SQ6807 : 12 J class seats strikes me as quite a bundle for a route that I would think would be low yielding. And I agree with the above comments that the ince
180 DavidByrne : A couple of points on this: (a) IIRC, NZ once said that services to PVG would have started earlier than they did but for the lack of an aircraft with
181 Kiwiflyer791 : Haven't heard that one but I understand KIX is really struggling so won't be supprised, 767's with a decent load of cargo would struggle to make it t
182 Koruman : Yeah, I have a few issues with this too, and I suspect that the return back up from 777 to 747 services on NZ1/2 has contributed too. At the end of t
183 Xiaotung : And you wonder why people think you are anti-Asia?
184 SunriseValley : The ESAD AKL-PVG is about 5400nm. Assuming the passenger ready weight does not exceed 200k lbs. the payload is about 58k lbs. NZ's passenger load at
185 Alangirvan : Possibly reductions in capacity between Australia/NZ and China could be seasonal? Would Chinese come to NZ when it is freezing? If NZ returned to thei
186 767ER : PE is doing very well to the US/Canada/UK - every flight I have been on there has not been one spare seat. NZs product represents real vaue for money
187 Alangirvan : Just looked at new PMR schedules for Ozjet. I see that first few flights from PMR to SYD show 4 hour 20 flight time, then it become 4 hours. This stil
188 Post contains images Axio : Yeah I saw that. I thought it might just be a little extra space to handle any teething issues at SYD - but I'm sure there are folks better informed
189 777ER : Well thats what you get with no competition and WLG is nearly 2 hours drive away.
190 Flyjetstar : Competition can be an overrated concept. Here at CHC all TT airlines charge the same flying from here to Australia - even the specials are the same.
191 SQ6807 : I am assuming here that 4.20 is not long enough for a stop, should it be that the 732 needs one, and then when they get a 733 the flight time will be
192 AerorobNZ : For those who are interested, we had a delayed flight the other night so we had to add disrupted customers onto NZ2. The only choice was for BP & PE t
193 DavidByrne : Even the 4h 00 "standard" time seems very slow. When NZ ran 732s on CHC-HBA, they took 3h 20. A 4h 20m flight has to be about 500 miles further than
194 TG992 : Could well just be an error in loading the flights due to daylight saving changes. I know every year the NZ website gets screwed up for a few days, wi
195 ZKNBX : Sorry to burst your bubble Koruman, But Air NZ' is maintaining and expanding Shanghai base (not decreasing it) and the problem they have at the momen
196 Cchan : The answer to (b) is: most members of the general public can't tell between a 737 and an A320, between a 732 and 733 is even more difficult. Would lo
197 QF175 : Umm, MU's BNE services were always going to be for NOV-FEB only (trial flights or something). So it was a planned reduction/pullout from the start. R
198 ZKNBX : Are you suggesting that KIX would drop to 3x weekly total? Or that some service would be flown by 763 and some by 772er? My understanding of the curr
199 Xiaotung : What advantage do JL have over NZ when NZ can't sustain Japan services what makes JL or NH want to re-enter? It always bugs me that NZ don't partner
200 Post contains links NZA320 : According to Great Circle mapper PMR - SYD is 1229nm. According to the aircraft info on this site the average range for a 732adv with 115 pax is betw
201 Cchan : JAL Mileage Bank is a better (more rewarding) programme than Air New Zealand Air Points anyway, and is free to join.
202 Koruman : Is that supposed to be a threat or a promise? Bring it on! I can't imagine a better outcome - the country still gets its Japanese tourists and the ai
203 NZ107 : But they could probably be able to distinguish the noise it makes when each a/c take off from a short runway.. Then you're left with the problem surr
204 SXI899 : The B732Adv is restricted to a MTOW of about 50,000kg from a 6000ft runway (PMR is ~6200ft). Going by the payload/range chart for the aircraft, with
205 Alangirvan : Ozjet (or perhaps it was PMR management.) said it would be a 737-300. If Ozjet is doing what PMR management said they would do, it should be a 733 fro
206 DavidByrne : Aah, so the 4h 20m Ozjet schedule, longer than the current 3h 35m SJ schedule from PMR-SYD, is to allow a diversion in the route north to keep within
207 Cchan : In this case, by the time the passengers notice the noise, they have already paid for their tickets. In another thread, an a.netter describes 732s as
208 Nzrich : You may think that competition is not working at CHC but look at the air fares they are always the cheapest out of all the NZ airports so yes competi
209 Flyjetstar : I don't know where you get that info. from. My checking of websites often tells me AKL is the same and sometimes cheaper than CHC so I don't think yo
210 Axio : I guess that answers the the 732 vs 733 question. Being the first flights, and only a month away, it is likely (at least based on Ozjet's tone) that
211 Post contains links and images AKL : Sorry if this has already been posted, but was news to me! Fair Use Excerpt: http://www.norfolkair.com/media/news_05.aspx ----------------------------
212 Cchan : Certainly not a good news to the residents around the airports!
213 Nzrich : Sorry i meant when airfares are on sale they are usually cheaper ex CHC .. If Air NZ puts the tasman on sale the CHC ones are always slightly cheaper
214 SQ6807 : Ozjet seems interested in the New Zealand market. I am skeptical about where the passengers for this sevice will come from. NLK is not a well known d
215 ZK-NBT : QF175 BNE-LAX made a scheduled stop in AKL today and will again next Sunday 9th March. Also QF will operate the A332 for the first time today on QF25
216 NZ107 : Just saw it fly over. It must have been a 744ER then if it was scheduled for BNE-LAX. It's going to be a different sight seeing a QF A332 fly over so
217 GarethW : I think that is exactly the reason it wouldn't have been an ER. BNE-LAX-BNE likewise MEL-AKL-LAX-AKL-MEL use 2 class 744s except when the latter is a
218 AerorobNZ : That would most likely be because of the seasonal cruise pax. The 332s in general will be a godsend as only the oldest and least reliable 744s are se
219 NZ747 : Nah was a standard B744... ACARS mode: B Aircraft reg: VH-OJA [Boeing B744] Message label: 80 Block id: 5 Msg no: M44A Flight id: QF0175 [BNE-LAX] [Q
220 NZ107 : Ok thanks!
221 Post contains images Zkpilot : Thanks for the post... probably is to help with the seat situation. Nope, 2-class non-ER... ER are reserved almost exclusively for MEL-LAX-MEL and so
222 Post contains links Zkpilot : new thread up here: New Zealand Aviation Thread #25 (by Zkpilot Mar 2 2008 in Civil Aviation)
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