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Lion Air Orders 56 737-900ER  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9023 times:

Nice start to the Singapore show. Also took 50 purchase rights.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ion-orders-56-more-737-900ers.html


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB7X7 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

Congrats Boeing and Lion Air,

The question is where are they going to use all these 737-900ER


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5081 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8889 times:



Quoting B7X7 (Reply 1):
The question is where are they going to use all these 737-900ER

Some might come to Australia in the new Skyairworld/Lion Air venture


User currently offlineNZA320 From New Zealand, joined May 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8867 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
The question is where are they going to use all these 737-900ER

Lion Air wants 60 739ERs for Indonesia ops and the rest (118) for joint ventures they plan to start in Australia, Thailand and other Asian countries.



Hovering is for pilots who love to fly but have no place to go.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8850 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Nice start to the Singapore show. Also took 50 purchase rights.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles....html

Truly remarkable expansion plan, even more then what we have seen from Air Asia. It would seem that the LOW COST market in South East Asia will soon face a blood bath. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the following years.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4265 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8701 times:

They are already struggling to have enough crew and routes to fly the first 10 739ERs on, they get one a month and they had one delayed already. Also Indonesia is still EU blacklisted and Lion had some spotty incidents with their MD-80s. I just can't see them grow over, say 50 aircraft. 100 unlikely, 200 never.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8465 times:

Lion Air was blacklisted because they were flying MD-80s and Yak42s,

Now they own there own airport and have on order a massive fleet of brand new 739ER, Do you understand that they are a very well financed operation and the EU will eventually take LION AIR off of there Blacklist.

You also have to understand that 60% of the worlds population is in ASIA and 95% are making anywhere from
$75-$400 monthly?


User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8426 times:



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 6):
Now they own there own airport and have on order a massive fleet of brand new 739ER, Do you understand that they are a very well financed operation and the EU will eventually take LION AIR off of there Blacklist.

You also have to understand that 60% of the worlds population is in ASIA and 95% are making anywhere from
$75-$400 monthly?

Thats correct, and as I said in another thread , Indonesia has 235 million citizens. I think they'll find a way to utilize all these planes. Lion Air ; the Ryanair of Asia.


User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

Lion Air's growth is truly mindboggling. I will believe it when I see it, but Lion Air taking delivery of all these 737s would be unbelievable. Same thing applies to Air Asia or Tiger. Naturally some of these companies could succeed, but I doubt they all take all the deliveries of their huge NB orders.

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 6):
Lion Air was blacklisted because they were flying MD-80s and Yak42s,

No airline gets blacklisted because of flying MD80s or Yak-42s.

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 6):
You also have to understand that 60% of the worlds population is in ASIA and 95% are making anywhere from $75-$400 monthly?

Although almost 50% of the worlds population is in China and India, where Lion Air probably won't fly. Also the rather low average income doesn't help airlines to grow - oil price is the same for the Indonesians as it is for Europeans or Americans. Legacy carriers have many times stated the high oil price to be the number one reason for their ticket price hikes.


User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3311 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8161 times:

Nice order! It's always nice to see both the 737 and A320 orders rolling in. Did Singapore Airshow start today?


Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8109 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
and they had one delayed already.

Which one is that then and what's your source please?

R


User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4265 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8040 times:



Quoting RobK (Reply 10):
Which one is that then

PK-LFK, cn 35713/2437, was supposed to be delivered in November 2007, but because there were either crewing problems or financing problems (only heared that thru the grapevine but it all makes sense that it was an ad hoc move, otherwise they would have given it a sequential Indonesian registration, like PK-LFR) they made some deal with Boeing which needed a test aircraft for a couple of months so they would only have to take it this april.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9385 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7884 times:

With reference to Lion Air, they seem to be doing well:

Lion Air took delivery of its ninth 900ER just before this year’s Singapore Air Show and, according to Boeing 737 program manager John Hamilton, the Jakarta-based airline has seen load factors of between 90 and 95 percent in its new 213-seat airplanes.

according to Hamilton, “customers are actually requesting to fly on Lion Air because of the new airplanes.” Lion Air has seen its dispatch reliability rate reach 99.7 percent since it placed its first 900ER into service last April, he added.


More at: http://www.ainonline.com/news/single...cific/?no_cache=1&cHash=787ceffe99

Boeing is certainly behind Lion Air.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 11):

PK-LFK, cn 35713/2437, was supposed to be delivered in November 2007, but because there were either crewing problems or financing problems (only heared that thru the grapevine but it all makes sense that it was an ad hoc move, otherwise they would have given it a sequential Indonesian registration, like PK-LFR) they made some deal with Boeing which needed a test aircraft for a couple of months so they would only have to take it this april.

Boeing is testing carbon brakes and radial tires on a Lion Air 739ER. It has been in works for a while. Boeing is paying Lion Air to use their airplane. Deals like this are extremely common and shouldn't make you think that an airline is in trouble just because this is happening. AA let Boeing use one of their 777-200ERs for over a year for test flights recently.

Being that only three airlines are currently taking delivery of 737-900ERs, Boeing could only go to Lion Air, Spicejet or Continental to get use of a plane for testing purposes.


Today, as the 900ER approaches its first full year in service, the airplane serves as a platform of study for a number of possible improvements to the Next Generation 737 line. The improvements include the first set of carbon brakes ever installed on a 737–on a 900ER borrowed from Lion Air, in fact–in the next major effort to reduce weight in the airplanes.

According to Hamilton, the switch from steel results in a weight savings of about 700 pounds. However, Boeing still must answer questions about their durability and cooling properties, validation of which the company needs to finish before a planned mid-year certification.

“One of the things our customers keep asking about,” Hamilton said, “is what the impact of carbon brakes would be on turn times. We have a number of customers that turn their airplanes in less than 25 minutes at the gate.

So [we’re gaining an] understanding how quickly carbon brakes cool down, and the early data we have indicates that they’re comparable to steel but we still have more testing to do before we can go claim that.”

If all goes according to plan, Boeing also expects to offer radial tires to go along with the new braking system. Hamilton explained that the wheels on the current 737 NGs can use only bias-ply tires because of their comparatively narrow width. However, the wider wheels Boeing designed for the carbon braking system could, in fact, accommodate radials.

Hamilton expected to have accumulated enough test data to officially start offering the tires around the time of the Singapore show or shortly thereafter.
(from article above)

[Edited 2008-02-19 08:04:28]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7867 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 11):
PK-LFK, cn 35713/2437, was supposed to be delivered in November 2007, but because there were either crewing problems or financing problems (only heared that thru the grapevine but it all makes sense that it was an ad hoc move, otherwise they would have given it a sequential Indonesian registration, like PK-LFR) they made some deal with Boeing which needed a test aircraft for a couple of months so they would only have to take it this april.

How do you know it was due for delivery in November 2007 though? What is your source for that?

The line no. > reg order sequence was already allocated way in advance as PK-LFK, PK-LFP, PK-LFL, PK-LFM with PK-LFP showing on Boeing paperwork as an April 2008 delivery, presumably because the 5 month carbon brake test program had already been organised way in advance too, and so that when it came to be delivered it would be in registration sequence with the others, ie. after PK-LFO.

What actually happened (for reasons not known to me) is that Lion took delivery of PK-LFP in December and the test program was transferred to PK-LFK instead. You could argue that that proves the delivery was delayed, and technically you'd be right, but at the same time PK-LFPs delivery was brought forward 5 months.... !  biggrin 

R


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7840 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
Boeing is testing carbon brakes and radial tires on a Lion Air 739ER. It has been in works for a while. Boeing is paying Lion Air to use their airplane. Deals like this are extremely common and shouldn't make you think that an airline is in trouble just because this is happening. AA let Boeing use one of their 777-200ERs for over a year for test flights recently.

Being that only two airlines are currently taking delivery of 737-900ERs, Boeing could only go to Lion Air or Continental to get use of a plane for testing purposes.

And there is the official word on it from our RNT man!  spin 

R


User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4265 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7734 times:

 white  ok maybe I read too much in the fact that Lion Air SEEMED reluctant to even put one aircraft a month in service while on paper they want almost 200, combined with some rumors I read on the net. Boeing sources above are reliable.
Although of course Boeing would never admit in public that their best 739ER customer sucks with late payments, crewing problems etc.  duck 



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7627 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 15):
ok maybe I read too much in the fact that Lion Air SEEMED reluctant to even put one aircraft a month in service while on paper they want almost 200, combined with some rumors I read on the net. Boeing sources above are reliable.
Although of course Boeing would never admit in public that their best 739ER customer sucks with late payments, crewing problems etc.

I do agree with you here. I just can't see them taking all these planes they have on order, but then it was only a couple of years ago I was agreeing with others that the delivery of the 739ERs to them would never happen and they'd get cancelled or go to other airlines but now we're up to no.8 with their 9th due in April !

R


User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7333 times:

I beleive one of their 739s PK-LFN was ntu, am I right in saying this?

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2612 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Great news for both LionAir and the 739ER. A shame LionAir is the only carrier to have such a big fleet of 739ER


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7147 times:



Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 17):
I beleive one of their 739s PK-LFN was ntu, am I right in saying this?

The reg was ntu, but they still took the plane - it just adopted PK-LFO instead. In their reg allocation list PK-LFF to PK-LFR, PK-LFO wasn't assigned to anything previously anyway.

R


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

Wow! (56) more... Congrats to Boeing and Lion. I assume they are going to expand to AU and Middle East?

(122) + (56) = (188) firm 737-900ER's Big grin Amazing!



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6221 times:



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 20):
(122) + (56) = (188) firm 737-900ER's Amazing!

Although 178 sounds a little less amazing!

Still, it's a huge number. Are they all Y Class (I'm presuming so, with 213 seats). What I find so amazing is that an aircraft that started life 40 years ago as a 100-120 seater - the 737-1/200 - is now available in a size bigger than the 707, 727 and just short (?) of the 757-200.

Re the Aussie operation, how far advanced is Lion Air on this? Do they have an estimated start date?


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5855 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
I just can't see them grow over, say 50 aircraft. 100 unlikely, 200 never.

While I agree that 178 737's is certainly ambitious, NEVER SAY NEVER  wink 

Congrats on the order  champagne 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9385 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5715 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):

While I agree that 178 737's is certainly ambitious, NEVER SAY NEVER

Who thought that a little discount Irish Airline that operated a dozen or so thirty year old 737s would go from that to operating over 150 737-800s in less than 10 years? Ryanair found itself a new market and reshaped flying in Europe. Lion Air can do the same in parts of Asia. There are millions of people that can't afford legacy airline fares that might be able to fly now that Lion Air is bringing in lower fares. Lion Air is creating its own market, so if they do it correctly, they certainly can succeed.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Lion Air is moving from being an airline into being a holding or leasing company. The aircraft will be supplied to operators anywhere. Lion will be like ILFC or GECAS, but the Lion name will be painted on the planes. The pattern is for LCCs like Air Asia, Jetstar, Tieger, Air Arabia to start new ventures away from their home country.

25 Post contains images BoeingFever777 : Yeah you can tell I was not a math major... Hard to type on a Treo. Not a little less amazing... It is amazing. Is Lion Air the Ryanair, Southwest Ai
26 ODwyerPW : What is really neat, is that there were so many people who thought the 737NG was too long in the tooth to justify the launch of another type. The 739E
27 FRNT787 : Personnally, I believe they will take them, as they seem to be successfull thus far with their fleet, and there is an enormous potential market. But
28 Post contains images Pnwtraveler : Has Lion Air caught Emirates disease? Wow this is a lot of planes.
29 Afterburner : They don't own any airport.
30 Mandala499 : The blacklist got nothing to do with what they were flying! EU Blacklist and FAA Cat 2 imposed on Indonesian airlines cited lack of trust by the EU a
31 JFK787NYC : LionAir is flying 1 Million passengers monthly, They currently have only 29 Planes flying. None of them are widebody so lets do the calculations 1 Mil
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