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Virgin America Applies For LAX-SJD  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

Interesting and surprise move --
Even with VX branding splash - not quite sure this is exactly their market, nor one which they can truly succeed on.

This follows United's petition for the route resulting from Frontiers abandonment of the market
United Applies For LAX-SJD (by LAXintl Jan 24 2008 in Civil Aviation)

Quote:
Virgin America Seeks Los Angeles-San Jose del Cabo, Mexico Rights

SAN FRANCISCO, Feb. 19, 2008 -- Virgin America today filed an application with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) seeking authority to fly from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to San Jose del Cabo, Mexico (SJD). If approved, this would become the airline's first international destination.

''We saw that the DOT had Cabo rights under review, and we simply could not pass up the opportunity,'' said Virgin America President and CEO David Cush. ''Since it was a low-cost airline that is giving up the right to fly to Cabo, we think it would be ideal for another low-cost carrier to take its place. If Virgin America is awarded this route, travelers would have a new high-quality, low-fare option for travel to the beautiful San Jose del Cabo and Cabo San Lucas resorts.''

Full Story
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/080219/136651.html


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Interesting and surprise move --
Even with VX branding splash - not quite sure this is exactly their market, nor one which they can truly succeed on.

Upscale leisure market. I think it's perfect for what they are aiming at. Similar to the talk of them looking at Miami-Caribbean in the further off future. However, given their young age, it might not be a hit in the short-term, but the long-term bonus of serving this market from LA can be beneficial.

And on a related note, it seems like 2008's remaining VX destinations are pretty set to be Chicago and Boston this summer, and Miami in late fall.

[Edited 2008-02-19 17:09:51]


a.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

This is very exciting (and unexpected... at least by me). Guys, would you happen to know if someone else has already applied for this route (such as DL or someone else)?

On a semi-related question, do all Virgin carriers share the Velocity F.F. program? It would be incredible for a Virgin America F.F. to book a Virgin Blue or a Virgin Atlantic flight.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Makes for an interesting party on the West Coast.

Besides UA and DL I wonder who else will show up with apps in the docket the next few days.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

WOW extremely unexpected, I thought they wanted to fly within the US only? guess not.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25698 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7247 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Interesting and surprise move --

And fairly smart on their part.

Their expansion seems to be slower than I had thought it was going to be, but since they are based on the west coast they have to address Mexico sooner or later.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

All right, Virgin America could land in Mexico. I truly hope they get this one.

The Virgin group is not shy, Frontier didn't make it work, what makes Virgin think it will work for them?? anyway, like I said I hope they get it.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7213 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
such as DL

Yes however docket and its details has not posted yet.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
wonder who else will show up with apps in the docket the next few days

No one. Today was the cutoff for applications.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Upscale leisure market. I think it's perfect for what they are aiming at.

Might be a 'more' upscale leisure market compared to other Pacific Mexico destinations, however its still a bulk tourist market at the end.

While undoubtedly Virgin's marketing will be 100% better then what Frontier was able to generate, I'm not convinced VX will be able to rely on solely local LA O&D traffic (or even SFO/SEA connections depending on how flights are timed) as compared to UA or even a DL with much larger name recognition and connectivity.

It strikes me that this unexpected application might be more a result of lack of other ideas or simply an opportunistic play to employ planes which are on delivery without clear future plans. I'm not even 100% sure if the initial air carrier certification VX received even allows for out of country operations, or if that also needs to be revised. A definite surprise.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Might be a 'more' upscale leisure market compared to other Pacific Mexico destinations, however its still a bulk tourist market at the end.

Bulk, yet still upscale. Just like Nassau is to Miamians and New Yorkers. It caters to both crowds very, very well. You can go to Cabo on the cheap, or you can make it a luxury vacation.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

It strikes me that this unexpected application might be more a result of lack of other ideas or simply an opportunistic play to employ planes which are on delivery without clear future plans. I'm not even 100% sure if the initial air carrier certification VX received even allows for out of country operations, or if that also needs to be revised. A definite surprise.

I think it's thinking ahead into the future. This slot if available now and very well could never be available again. It fits their destination portfolio quite well, and is the type of leisure market that their target demographic likes to visit. It's now or never for VX to get a shot at this route.

[Edited 2008-02-19 18:16:39]


a.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25698 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7168 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
I'm not even 100% sure if the initial air carrier certification VX received even allows for out of country operations, or if that also needs to be revised. A definite surprise.

I hope so. I'm all for diversity.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7150 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
No one. Today was the cutoff for applications.

But it takes them a couple of days before they show up.

For example, I don't see this JetBlue app in the docket yet.

Not everyone is going to put out a press release.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7127 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 10):
But it takes them a couple of days before they show up.

I get a paid report listing DOT events of the day. Only VX and DL are listed as activities today as related to the SJD vacancy.

I waited for the press release before posting as I knew many folks would like details or corroborate the post.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7116 times:



Quoting TCT (Reply 4):
WOW extremely unexpected, I thought they wanted to fly within the US only? guess not.

Fred Reid was asked about that in Airliners magazine and said they'd remain domestic. Again, anything's possible in the airline industry.



My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13765 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7093 times:
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I'm betting UA gets this route authority. The DOT doesn't like having to constantly review and approve these, and F9 proved that relying solely on O&D traffic isn't a winner in the LAX-SJD market. UA has a large presence in LAX plus can draw on some intra-CA connectivity to feed into it, whereas VX will lack the feed UA would have.

And of course, AS LOVES the SJD market and isn't about to give up market share there without a fight.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7078 times:

How long till SFO-SJD?

Alaska/United/?????

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7071 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Only VX and DL are listed as activities today as related to the SJD vacancy.

Shouldn't UA also be showing as filing?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7069 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I get a paid report listing DOT events of the day. Only VX and DL are listed as activities today as related to the SJD vacancy

what happened to United's application???


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7039 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 15):
Shouldn't UA also be showing as filing?

Just answered my own question, the DOT consolidated the UA application into the new docket.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

UA applied for it back on January which started this whole parade.
United Applies For LAX-SJD (by LAXintl Jan 24 2008 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2008-02-19 18:36:51]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7011 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Might be a 'more' upscale leisure market compared to other Pacific Mexico destinations, however its still a bulk tourist market at the end.

There are so many other Pacific Mexico destinations much more upscale then SJD.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

I do wonder though, the selection proceeding requires UA to update their application with the same materials as the other carriers.

UA still has to file an amended application with proposed schedules, routings, etc.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6951 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 19):
There are so many other Pacific Mexico destinations much more upscale then SJD.

I don't know man, you can usually see a bunch of corporate jets crowling around the SJD airport. Ixtapa, Puerto Vallarta, and Mazatlan can't match Cabo, but I could be wrong

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):
Just answered my own question, the DOT consolidated the UA application into the new docket.

OK, so officially United, Delta, and Virgin have applied for the route.

Anybody here think CO or AS will give it a go???


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6943 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
How long till SFO-SJD?

Alaska/United/?????

United can't even fill SFO - SJD daily on TED. The route only operates two or three days a week. Why do they think they'll do any better from LAX? DOT should tell United to make SFO-SJD work before giving it anything else.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6924 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 21):
AS will give it a go

AS already flies LAX-SJD

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 22):
do any better from LAX?

Because LA is a significantly larger market not only in size, but propensity to visit Cabo.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

LAXIntl, nothing on your report about UA activity under either docket number? (0023 or 0056)

Or would amended/supplemental info not be listed on your report?

UA is supposed to provide more detail for their application today also. The proceeding said "and United should amend and/or supplement its application, as directed by the schedule set out below, with the information requested in this section."



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
25 FreequentFlier : The DOT shouldn't bother with an airline likely to go out of business in a year or so. DL or UA should get it.
26 AS739X : Huh? I said Alaska does SJD.....United does SJD.....3rd carrier ????? My post had nothing to do with UA's app for LAX And because a flight is not dai
27 Super80DFW : If Virgin America gets the LAX-SJD route, do you think Virgin would also apply for SFO-SJD? Would it not make sense since that is their main hub?
28 EA CO AS : Is there a vacant SFO-SJD authority available?
29 Super80DFW : It looks like AS is the only airline with a nonstop flight right now. Would that be what your asking?
30 Jetdude : I understand the "now or never" aspect of this. But how would SJD fit their "portfolio"? All their routes, with the exception of LAS are business des
31 MaverickM11 : Can their res system even handle international bookings? Such as? The competition in this market is relatively controlled, unlike all their other rou
32 Legacyins : Fred Reid is no longer in the driver's seat. David Cush is calling the shots.
33 MAH4546 : It's clear they are aiming their product at the "jet set" crowd - young and affluent professionals. Cabo is a popular vacation destination for young,
34 AS739X : In the SFO-SJD market you have Alaska daily and United 3-weekly. So this would leave a third route authority, correct? IMHO VX will be on the outside
35 MaverickM11 : So did B6 in the beginning, but in the end it was all about fare.
36 Laxintl : UA simply submitted supplemental information updating its initial filing. The carrier now proposes to operate 2x daily (1x off peak season) 156-seat
37 FATFlyer : Thanks, makes it easier to compare the details now. UA would be 2X per day in season/1X off season on an A320 in Ted 156-seat all economy config DL w
38 OOer : Wow, seems to me that these days everyone and their mother wants to fly this route!!!! LOL!!!
39 Juventus : Cabo is a popular place these days. Pain in the butt to find a parking space on the ramp during peak season. If you fly there during the peak season,
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