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IB BOS-MAD  
User currently offlineSAM27000 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Hi....Does anyone know how well the Iberia service out of BOS is doing? I believe it is almost going on for a year now and am curious to how their load factors are on the A340? Also I'm confused, the IB web site has the outbound #6166 on T,W,Th and the MAD-BOS #6165 on W,F,SU,M......the days don't add up?....maybe it me...Any info would be appreciated. Many thanks.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Last i heard was the service was going daily as it is performing well but don't know about your scheduling problem.

User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Supposedly quite poorly though not as badly as DC. I've heard everything from them killing the route to running six weekly flights this summer, which just goes to show, don't trust the people on this site, they don't know jack. I doubt they have any problem filling the flights, but the business ties between Boston and Spain simply don't exist like England, Germany, Switzerland and Ireland and my guess is that while the flights are full it's mainly connecting traffic to Portugal, elsewhere in Spain, southern France and Africa.

User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3675 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

There was a post a month or so ago regarding both BOS and IAD flights. Apparently both cities are flown on a triangle route MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD where MAD-BOS was one flight number and BOS-IAD-MAD was a different flight number, and frequency has gone down from 4x to 3x weekly.


The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

The thing about BOS-MAD is the market itself isn't big, but big enough, and the rest of the people connect through MAD to other places. I was on that flight last summer and the loads were full, but it was a month into the route, so the people flying it snagged the "new route fares" (my name for them) and it was also peak travel season. I also wonder how it is doing now that it's winter.


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User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3916 times:



Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 2):
Supposedly quite poorly though not as badly as DC. I've heard everything from them killing the route to running six weekly flights this summer, which just goes to show, don't trust the people on this site, they don't know jack. I doubt they have any problem filling the flights, but the business ties between Boston and Spain simply don't exist like England, Germany, Switzerland and Ireland and my guess is that while the flights are full it's mainly connecting traffic to Portugal, elsewhere in Spain, southern France and Africa.

Apparently the flights are running at 6 x weekly during the summer.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32882 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

Both routes are performing quite poorly. They are boosting frequency this summer in be effort to lure more business travellers, although this is a recent change in plans, as the original summer schedule had a reduction to 4x weekly.

The A340 is just too big a plane for the route, especially during the winter. The route has a long way to go until it can prove to be a strong performer. One major problem is that in the summer it fills easily (though at low yields), but in the winter it just does horrendously. Perhaps IB is better of making IAD and BOS seasonal, but that doesn't help towards capturing business traffic. It will be interesting to see what IB does IAD and BOS next winter. I'm sure the current MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD routing isn't winning people over.

[Edited 2008-02-19 21:45:44]


a.
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
The A340 is just too big a plane

Agree completely, they should downsize to a 319.

[Edited 2008-02-19 21:59:25]

User currently offlineJMULAH From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3807 times:



Quoting TCT (Reply 7):

They would rather cancel the whole route.
Maybe and if they get their A332 they can manage that, only if IB is willing to advertise the flight like their NYC or MIA routes


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3805 times:



Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 2):
Supposedly quite poorly though not as badly as DC



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Both routes are performing quite poorly

According to a recent press release, the MAD-BOS and MAD-IAD routes had a load factor of 74,6% during 2007.


"El mayor crecimiento de actividad correspondió a América del Norte debido, sobre todo, al lanzamiento de los vuelos a Boston y Washington. En estas rutas, el número de AK0 y de PKT crecieron un 12,8 por ciento y un 10,7 por ciento respectivamente, y el coeficiente de ocupación se situó en el 74,6 por ciento."

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
One major problem is that in the summer it fills easily (though at low yields),

That's another story. Low yields could definitely kill the route even if they had good load factors. Business Class travellers are the "key for success".

Freight could help also, but I don't have an idea about how the flights are performing in that area.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32882 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3799 times:



Quoting JMULAH (Reply 8):
Maybe and if they get their A332 they can manage that, only if IB is willing to advertise the flight like their NYC or MIA routes

I don't really know how much they advertise any of their U.S. services, but Miami and New York are long, long established routes for Iberia. They don't do well at MIA and JFK because they advertise, but because they are established. Also, looks like MIA will be 12x weekly in July. That's the most since the hub closed (and it was 14x weekly).

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 9):
According to a recent press release, the MAD-BOS and MAD-IAD routes had a load factor of 74,6% during 2007.

Nobody is doubting high load factors. Those should be a given.



a.
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Nobody is doubting high load factors. Those should be a given.

What about the winter then?

When you say that the route does "horrendously" during winter, what do you mean exactly? Low yields? bad load factors?

I guess it's still a bit early as the routes are not even one year old and this is this first winter for them. Let's see what happens during 2008.

About the frequencies, I have heard that it also has something to do with an "apparent" fleet shortage.

Iberia seems to be "short of long haul aircraft", and if we add the loss of EC-JOH (written off) then things are a bit "tight" so maybe they prefer to focus on more profitable, better established routes instead of doing useless efforts during the low season.

Additional A340s are expected to arrive during 2008 and 2009, although not too many, but this will help to improve things.

[Edited 2008-02-20 00:10:31]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineHinckley From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3646 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm sure the current MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD routing isn't winning people over.

I'm not aware of any triangular routing and don't see it anywhere on the IB schedule. I'm flying BOS-MAD-BOS in May, non-stop in each direction.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

I still think UA should find an aircraft (not that they have a spare available) to fly the IAD-MAD route. They've filled holes in Europe where they don't have Star Alliance partner hubs.....Rome....Zurich (before Swiss joined the Alliance) and Paris. UA has the feed at IAD to make it work. Iberia doesn't have much beyond AA's small number of flights/destinations to and from IAD.

Any plans for TAP to fly to IAD from Lisbon to link into United's network?


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3501 times:



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
Any plans for TAP to fly to IAD from Lisbon to link into United's network?

A few months ago, a thread quoted a TAP press release, which said that the airline was exploring the feasibility of launching flights between LIS and IAD. Although TAP is considering a new route to IAD, it may not happen anytime soon.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8410 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3431 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
The A340 is just too big a plane for the route, especially during the winter. The route has a long way to go until it can prove to be a strong performer. One major problem is that in the summer it fills easily (though at low yields),

I agree but is $1200 for a TATL coach fare low yield? Not to my wallet especially when AF/BA/LH have lowere fares. If IB can't make money with fares that high, I think the problem is with IB and not the route's potential.


User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3377 times:



Quoting Hinckley (Reply 12):
I'm not aware of any triangular routing and don't see it anywhere on the IB schedule.

Again, the triangular flight is a temporary solution just for the month of february.


User currently offlineHinckley From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3300 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 16):
Again, the triangular flight is a temporary solution just for the month of february.

Got it. I hadn't seen that. Thanks,


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32882 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3212 times:



Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 11):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Nobody is doubting high load factors. Those should be a given.

What about the winter then?

Terrible. Loads were so bad for February that they merged the BOS/IAD routes into one this month, and loads are still light.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

Could AA assume the IAD-MAD and BOS-MAD routes at some point with 757s? I would think they could even though they aren't sending the 57's across the pond at the moment. But if granted ATI, I would think it would make sense.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3142 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 19):
Could AA assume the IAD-MAD and BOS-MAD routes at some point with 757s?

BOS-MAD (along with BOS-BRU) would be ideal routes for AA 757s, if they were configured properly with a real J cabin - but fat chance on that (this is AA, after all). Both routes could easily fill up with connections at MAD and BRU onto AA's European partners (SN and IB, respectively).


User currently offlineDCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 434 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3045 times:



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
I still think UA should find an aircraft (not that they have a spare available) to fly the IAD-MAD route.

UA flew this route back in the early 90s with 762ER. Terrible yields. Let UA keep the planes where they can fly profitably.

Regards from DC,



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17544 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3029 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 16):
Again, the triangular flight is a temporary solution just for the month of february.

A triangular route is what we like to call "a red flag". Silly



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32882 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2984 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 16):
Again, the triangular flight is a temporary solution just for the month of february.

A triangular route is what we like to call "a red flag".

Bingo. A "temporary solution" for a pair of poor performing routes that Iberia doesn't exactly know what to do with right now



a.
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2941 times:



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
I still think UA should find an aircraft (not that they have a spare available) to fly the IAD-MAD route. They've filled holes in Europe where they don't have Star Alliance partner hubs.....Rome....Zurich (before Swiss joined the Alliance) and Paris. UA has the feed at IAD to make it work. Iberia doesn't have much beyond AA's small number of flights/destinations to and from IAD.

Star partner Spanair has a hub in MAD so could provide mainly domestic feed if UA wherever to restart the route. Though the future of Spanair is currently unclear



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25 Viscount724 : I'm sure IB"s average fare is much lower than $1200, and how many $5000+ business class fares are they selling? Probably very few. Spain isn't a majo
26 MaverickM11 : Unfortunately their smallest transatlantic plane is still a huge plane, and costly no less, particularly on such a short transatlantic hop. IAD and B
27 Airbazar : I don't know what their average fare is but if there is anything cheaper for the Summer I can't find it. Give it a try. Pic a city in Europe and a da
28 Viscount724 : I was referring to the average fare on an annual basis. They might be able to get close to that number for a few weeks in the peak season. Or their p
29 BOStonsox : I agree that the market isn't huge. But for connections it isn't so bad to go through MAD. It took 8 or 9 hours for me to get to FCO, not much longer
30 SAM27000 : Guys....thank you so much for all the info, insight an opinions. This site and its' members are the best! SAM27000
31 LACA773 : Does IB have any 757s left to modify for TATL? Is LAX still a go? If so, when do they plan to start it? 34Xs on the route?
32 MAH4546 : No, they have no 757s left. LAX was never "a go," and given how poorly Boston and Dulles are doing, I think they need to focus on making those two ro
33 SKY1 : In the first moment, a new route doesn't perform well. We need more time and a bigger perspective to reach a conclusion about the profitability or not
34 MAH4546 : That is true. We need about a year to really see how a route can perform. Nonetheless, Boston and Dulles' performance have both been well below avera
35 SKY1 : I think, anyhow, a new route MAD-LAX could work better than the IAD one.
36 MAH4546 : I strongly disagree, and I live in Los Angeles. Too long, too thin. They could block an A340 for less time and send it to Asia, making more money tha
37 SKY1 : Mark, however, the IAD route looks like the weak spot. Maybe a decent Business Class occupation and good cargo could to save this leg though more tim
38 LH423 : Contrary to popular belief, Southern California doesn't have strong links to Spain. Most of the Spanish-speaking population is from 'South of the bor
39 Airbazar : True to some extent however there are always exceptions. For a while, Swissair combined BOS and IAD in a triangle route, sometimes operated with a 74
40 MAH4546 : Yes, they are, given the stronger presence of oneWorld/AA in the Boston area compared to the DC area.
41 RobertS975 : Didn't IB serve BOS many years ago only to drop out? I could swear they had service to BOS in the past.
42 BOStonsox : I read last May when they announced the new BOS service that they had served BOS back in 1974.
43 Post contains links WA707atMSP : Correct. IB lost a DC-10-30 at BOS in Dec 1973, after the aircraft's landing gear hit approach lights on final approach. Fortunately, there were no f
44 SKY1 : But even do you think a LAX-MAD might be less profitable than an IAD-MAD? Iberia does serve some destinations in Africa and Middle East. Anyway it's
45 MAH4546 : AA's presence at IAD is minimal. They do not even fly IAD-ORD. They have service to Dallas, Miami, Los Angeles, and San Juan. Yes, I think so. The ro
46 LH423 : Well, I'm not sure how far back you're referring to but up until the late 90s the route was flown ZRH-BOS-PHL-BOS-ZRH. Eventually PHL was dropped and
47 Viscount724 : West Coast fares are often even lower than points much further east. LH currently has special fares from Switzerland to North America that are roughl
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