RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4494 posts, RR: 26 Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 18909 times:
Forgive me if this is a duplicate post. I know there are several on-going threads about the 787's delays, but I haven't read through all of them nor did a search turn up anything similar....
Quote: Japan Airlines Corp (9205.T) is looking at buying some Airbus' mid-sized A350 XWB planes after production delays for Boeing Co's (BA.N) 787 planes, two company sources told Reuters...The sources said JAL, which had planned to buy 55 787 planes, favoring their greater fuel-efficiency, was looking at purchasing Airbus planes as it wants to offset the cost of higher fuel prices quickly by using more mid-sized airliners.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12336 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18110 times:
Quoting Chiad (Reply 5): I think JAL only wants what several carriers have done before them:
B787 for the lower end of the mid-size market and A350 for the higher end.
That makes sence.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9): Quoting Aerosol (Reply 8):
I understand this more like a possible A330 order than a 350 order.
I could see that. If Boeing cancels the 787-3, might JL order the A330 for domestic?
That doesn't make any sense. the B-787-3 has a 2500nm-3000nm range, the A-330-200 has a much greater range, and would be wasted on the short, high density routes in Japan. JL could just as easily order non-ER B-767-300s for these short routes, since cargo is not a big issue on these routes.
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 3042 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17739 times:
What for? Unless Airbus offers an ultra-low gross weight version of the A350 and plus a wingspan that can fit within the 200ft box. JL isn't going to pull the plug on the 787.
The 783 maybe delayed a year or maybe two from the original 2010 service entry, as Boeing has its hand full just getting the 787 flying and certificated. It just makes more sense to have Boeing work on the 788 & 789 and put the 783 on the back burner for now.
Some people are blowing out of proportion that the 783 is going to be cancelled.
A350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1129 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 17715 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9): I could see that. If Boeing cancels the 787-3, might JL order the A330 for domestic?
The dash 3 was probably a more important reason to go for the Dreamliner than national feelings, so they are risking to lose one incentive now. With the delays it's normal to rethink all the options you have, but Boeing and JAL will come to an agreement finally since it's just the best solution for both sides.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10): That doesn't make any sense. the B-787-3 has a 2500nm-3000nm range, the A-330-200 has a much greater range, and would be wasted on the short, high density routes in Japan. JL could just as easily order non-ER B-767-300s for these short routes
They could go for the A330-300 instead, the incremental trip costs are minor (or perhaps even negleclible). But at the end of the day, A can make some nice proposals to JAL but nothing that really rocks. The 767 replacement is just not their field currently.
Quote: A spokesman for the Oneworld alliance carrier tells ATI: “It is normal practice for us to carefully examine all new aircraft on the market and in the pipeline. As with all other new aircraft models, we have been examining the A350 project.
“In terms of introducing this aircraft to our fleet, we think it could be a potential candidate but currently we have no plans to purchase this aircraft.”
But it is a good ploy when entering into 787 compensation negotiations....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Here an article in French , published by Reuters.fr
For those who do not read French , i have translated 2 phrases , prononced by JAL spokemen , which i guess are the more important ones out of this artticle.
- " To choose only one aircraft supplier regarding our next generation planes , is a risk bet.We should have another one (Airbus) "
- " We are always thinking at our fleet of tomorrow , thus of course , but not only at the A350XWB.Nothing has been decided yet "
Conclusion , JAL will NOT cancel their 787 orders , but could become as more and more airlines a 787/A350XWB operator , perhaps by not firm up their 787 options (20) , and by buying 20 A350XWBs.Just a though..........
When JAL people says " .......thus of course , but not only at the A350XWB..........." , can we see an open window for the A380 ?
With JAL , we can be very sceptikal about an Airbus purchase (same for EL AL) , but this is the very first time , people of this airline speak so seriously about Airbus.
SpenceSaab From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15260 times:
Boeing are finding that maybe they should have taken the A350 threat a little more seriously (remember the funny vid about the A350 being nothing more than an A330 with new wings and engines). The biggest problem for Boeing is that Emirates have made 70 firm orders for the A350. Some of these orders are for the -XWB, some for the -900, and some for the -1000; Plus 50 options.
I'm thinking that the options are to see if Boeing will (reluctantly) develop a 787-10. The problem with that being is that Boeing will end up diluting their own (very important) 777-300ER market by doing so.
I guess they could try the other option of developing a "777-300XLR (Extra Long Range), or something. That being a 777-300ER but with 787 technology. Tim Clarke has said that such a thing would be a "World Beater".
All in all the A350 looks like it could do to the 777-300ER what the 787 did to the A330.
Silence is Golden when you don't know a good answer
Sh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15024 times:
Quoting SpenceSaab (Reply 22): The problem with that being is that Boeing will end up diluting their own (very important) 777-300ER market by doing so.
By 2015, the 777 is a 20 year old design. How long is the 777 supposed to have very strong sales, 30 years? 2025? It's the right time for Boeing to design newer more efficient planes especially considering the difference in fuel prices from 1995 to 2015.
Quoting SpenceSaab (Reply 22): All in all the A350 looks like it could do to the 777-300ER what the 787 did to the A330.
The competitor to the 777-300ER , the A350-1000, doesn't EIS until 2016. And theres already a backlog for that model. It's not out of the realm of possibility that a slip of EIS of 6 months or a year could occur for Airbus.
Whats more likely is that the 777-300ER orders will increase, just like the A330 orders did when people realize its a very long wait for the A350-1000