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DTW Expansion Proposes Additional Runway  
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Posted (6 years 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

It seams as though many communities and airport authorities are updating their airport master-plans. With all of the talk of consolidation in the industry, is such planning premature? DTW wants to build an additional 10,000' runway that will take out 15% of the residents of the suburban community of Romulus, SLC has plans that could involve a 4th runway still further to the west of 34L-17R that would take out a big chunk of the International center business park.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-02-22-dtw-runway_N.htm
Looking at cases such as STL, and what CVG might become and what PIT is as far as terminal space, is such planning a little bit optimistic?


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

This is the best line from the article:

"How many hits can we continue to absorb on behalf of the region and the airport"

Romulus is DTW and DTW is Romulus. If it wasn't for the airport, there would be nothing there but a few potato farms and perhaps some closed down factories. DTW is the largest employer in that part of the city, and those folks should be thank full that there is any development going on the way things are here in S.E. Michigan!

If they need to move 3500 people, who moved there well after DTW was built, and in this economic climate they will surely get good prices or their homes, then so be it.

Is it premature to plan and build, no. Better to prepare and catch some new business rather than play catch up.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Where are they proposing this runway be? Is it proposed to be a parallel to 21/22 over where Middlebelt currently is?

User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

I agree with Clipperdtw. Sounds like they want to get ready for the A380. With LH and AF flying into DTW, who knows they may someday fly the A380 into DTW. If the merger goes thru, their will be alot more flights out of DTW then their is now. And some of the homes in and around DTW are not livable and need to be torn down anyways.

Chuck


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7478 times:

Very interesting... does anyone have diagrams of the proposed layouts at SLC and DTW?

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7460 times:



Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
does anyone have diagrams of the proposed layouts at SLC and DTW?

Here is the big plan for DTW: http://www.metroairport.com/programs/DTWMasterPlan/Boards.pdf



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJkj777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

WOW, that means a 2 hour taxi from landing to the gate. It is bad enough now............I am going to start flying in to FNT when needing to get to Troy, MI.
Beautiful terminal, however. One of the nicest I have ever seen.

[Edited 2008-02-22 11:38:21]

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3933 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

This has nothing to do with the 380. THis has everything to do with begin ahead of the game. Being proactive now, will continue to make DTW arguably the best international hub facility in the nation. If you wait until the problem develops (ORD) it will be a mess.


AZJ


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 7388 times:

It is nice to see someone in the U.S. actually planning for the future, rather than doing what is politically expedient at the moment. Good for DTW for standing up and saying, "we're going to need to expand to meet demand - it's reality, and we're sorry if it's not popular, but you're going to have to deal with it!!"

As for NIMBY's, I can't fathom how anyone could move near an airport and not expect an expansion to happen. Even DEN has NIMBY's - and they deal with them proactively, requiring homeowners in the vicinity to sign a paper stating they understand that - surprise, surprise - there's an airport nearby, and it's not going anywhere just because you don't like the noise!!

As for the PDF file, I couldn't read the proposals - but I assume there will be another runway parallel to the three 3's already there.

DTW has done a good job ensuring that efficiency is job number one, from the efficient runway layout to the new access road and the McNamara terminal. Hopefully the best decision for everyone will be made.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 7344 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
As for the PDF file, I couldn't read the proposals - but I assume there will be another runway parallel to the three 3's already there.

 checkmark  They are big .pdf files (15-20mb), and you might wish to save them to your hard drive before trying to explore or look at any diagrams. Even the SLC one is 81 pages.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
can't fathom how anyone could move near an airport and not expect an expansion to happen.

Even in some of the dilapidated neighborhoods south of SLC you'll get NIMBY'S! Even though DIA was built significantly northeast of the metro area, even the slightest urban encroachment can bring out the worst possible logic in people. It will only get worse as property values throughout the U.S. go through a major correction over the next year or two.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Am I alone in thinking that DTW in no way needs an additional runway. As it is they keep one closed all the time and use it as a taxiway. The NW terminal is no where near capacity. Is it somehow going to be maxed out even with the DL merger? Im sorry I just don't see the case for DTW.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

Did anyone stop and think that the plan is to close 3L-21R...the old 3C-21C for cargo and parking development?
The article declines to say that but I do personally belief that is motive of the airport commission.
An above post is correct. DTW does not need a fifth parallel. Things work just fine now.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 7252 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 12):
Did anyone stop and think that the plan is to close 3L-21R...the old 3C-21C for cargo and parking development?

Looking at the .pdf, it shows them actually wanting to lengthen that runway. I personally don't see them needing another runway also. I think as time goes on, with new technology being introduced, they will be able to land 3 at a time on the 3s/4s. Not to mention, when the wind is out of the south/west, they have runway 27L they can land also. I think they are no where near capacity right now. That being said, I think in 50 years, it may be needed, so why not plan now and start acquiring the land now to have it when it is needed to lay the pavement down.


User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 275 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 7226 times:

Everyone needs to keep in mind that master plan efforts are a requirement of the FAA. Every airport has to develop a master plan and update it regularly. This helps when it comes to FAA funding and grants.

I will admit I have not read the master plan for DTW but my guess, like most other airports, is that they have used historical data to develop the "need" for a fifth runway. By "demonstrating" they need a runway at some time in the future it helps to get them in-line for wrestling for FAA funds. The sooner you start that process the better off you'll be.

Plus keep in mind they will need to do an environmental impact study and land procurement so that will take 10 to 15 years too.

GRRTVC


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 7175 times:



Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 13):
Looking at the .pdf, it shows them actually wanting to lengthen that runway

I just looked at the drawing in the Detroit News and that addition, along with a new runway, is a taxiway to
get to the de ice area east of the NW terminal from the south end of the A.. 3L-21R does NOT show an extension.

www.detroitnews.com, then go to the airport expansion article and click on the drawing to the right..
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7055 times:

They can get ready for the A380 all they want, nobody is flying it there. BOS, IAH, DFW, and ATL would do better with an A380, and I sincerely doubt they'll ever get it. I'm sorry but DTW does not have enough mojo for A380 flights.

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7026 times:



Quoting Jkj777 (Reply 6):
WOW, that means a 2 hour taxi from landing to the gate. It is bad enough now............I am going to start flying in to FNT when needing to get to Troy, MI.

So, you're from LA. How do you expect to get to FNT? ORD, MSP, CVG? You are still going to have to visit a hub, wasting more time then you would in DTW.

Tell me, which is better, a longer taxi at DTW or a change of planes in another hub to get to FNT?  scratchchin 


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7016 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 17):
ORD, MSP, CVG? You are still going to have to visit a hub, wasting more time then you would in DTW.

sorry but MSP and CVG both do very well operationally.

Any airport anywhere in the world is wise to build as much concrete now as they can get away with.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7005 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 17):
ORD, MSP, CVG? You are still going to have to visit a hub, wasting more time then you would in DTW.

sorry but MSP and CVG both do very well operationally.

Any airport anywhere in the world is wise to build as much concrete now as they can get away with.

WHAT? I have no idea where you are going with this? Read reply #6 and my response.


User currently offlineJkj777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6889 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 17):
So, you're from LA. How do you expect to get to FNT? ORD, MSP, CVG? You are still going to have to visit a hub, wasting more time then you would in DTW.

Tell me, which is better, a longer taxi at DTW or a change of planes in another hub to get to FNT?

LAX-ATL or LAX-CVG on DL
Hop on a regional jet and head in to Flint. Out of the airport in 15 minutes. 40 minute drive to Troy

LAX-DTW on NWA (which I cannot stand, I only use them when an absolute must and the price is right). 20 minute taxi, 30 minutes to get baggage, 70 minutes to Troy...........This is average at best and has been worse.

If I choose DL for the flight to DTW......LAX-ATL or CVG. RJ/MD-88/ERJ170 to DTW, 20 min taxi, 30 min for baggage, 70 minutes to Troy..........still facing the same problem.

In conclusion, it is usually easier to fly in to Flint and head south to Troy from there. I fly DL 99% of the time and will usually go through ATL or CVG. Even with the connection, I have been known to get to my destination quickly and with little traffic. There has been a good bit of trial and error to this, trust me.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6613 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
34L-17R

Is it 34L/16R, or 35L/17R? I think you have a typo, but I don't know on which end of the Rwy.


User currently offlineGreg76 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6399 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 12):
Did anyone stop and think that the plan is to close 3L-21R...the old 3C-21C for cargo and parking development?
The article declines to say that but I do personally belief that is motive of the airport commission.
An above post is correct. DTW does not need a fifth parallel. Things work just fine now.
safe

Of course things work out well now... but what about in 20 years which they're planning for? Whether they do close 3L - 21R is yet to be seen. I thought the proposed new cargo development was to the west of 4L-22R anyway?


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6190 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
Is it 34L/16R, or 35L/17R? I think you have a typo, but I don't know on which end of the Rwy.

It is a typo. Coming from the north SLC is runway 16 (17 is the east runway).



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2485 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

Wow, impressive! For those of you that could not open the mega PDF:
Big version: Width: 600 Height: 394 File size: 90kb
DTW, vision 2020


Regards,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineNwAflyer07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

Wow it's great to see my hometown airport planning on such growth. Hopefully I'll be able to come back and work there someday in the future. It will be an absolutly amazing airport a decade from now. Looks like 4L/22R is going to be mostly for cargo and overflow traffic in the event of arrival and departure backlogs n such, and the new runway will be for the smaller aircraft (crjs, saabs, erjs, whatevers left of the dc-9s, etc....).

25 DiscoverCSG : A DTW ops questions: With the current four runways, what is the usual configuration for arrivals and departures on the 21/22's? How does 27L figure in
26 Indy : I think a 5th parallel runway loses much of its value in the form of extra long taxi times. Taxi times in DTW can be bad enough. With soaring fuel co
27 Post contains images Lightsaber : No. It takes 20 years from planning to operation! Hopefully this will be expedited. Or would you rather DTW lost out in the current rounds of consoli
28 Indy : A replacement for one of the parallel runways would make more sense. It would be better to build it as close as possible to the inner most parallel r
29 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Hopefully this image I pulled from the SLC .pdf file will help out. Notice the fourth runway for SLC on the west side that will take out part of the
30 Post contains images Lightsaber : I'm excited about the SLC plan. Having four runways with one 3,200 ft out will really help operations. Ideally, the new West runway would be further
31 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : The property you see along the north side of the International Center was all recently purchased by the SLC Department of Airports, so I rather suspe
32 AAflyguy : The taxi times @ DTW are not exhorbitant. Very seldom is there much of a hold to cross either inner runways when heading into one of the terminals. Ev
33 Lightsaber : More precisely, demand will move elsewhere. There is always the substitution principle in business. No city should ever forget that. I'm happy to see
34 Gregarious119 : Pardon my ignorance, but are there any other airports around the world with 7 runways, or plans for the 7th in place? I can't think of anywhere in the
35 Post contains images Steeler83 : Yep, it's called planning for the future. I guess the folks in ORD didn't quite grasp that logic all that well. If they're going to put in an additio
36 Greg76 : DFW has that many
37 Post contains links and images SLCUT2777 : 2009 plans call for them to extend 34R-16L by 3,100' and be done by 2010. I don't see them building the westernmost runway until about 2018 at the ea
38 PSU.DTW.SCE : To echo what everyone else has said, this is long-range planning. This isn't going to happen tomorrow, or in the next 5-10 years. No, the current air
39 SLCUT2777 : Very impressive indeed for DTW. I think this and the new terminal at IND are something that SLC should take note of, and meet with the same aggressiv
40 PSU.DTW.SCE : In reality, the groundwork & the vision is much more than 7 years. The concept for the new runways & terminals goes back nearly 20 years. It has been
41 Indy : Same goes for IND. The midfield terminal concept was dreamed up a few decades ago and the airport authority has been taking small steps for many year
42 PW100 : Thanks for the excellent info! When was the first time that all four parallels were in use simultaneously? Do I understand correctly, that all take-o
43 Isitsafenow : Thanks for posting. I havent seen that one....funny,I went through DTW on NW just a few hours ago. Feb 24 was a nice day for flying. safe
44 PSU.DTW.SCE : December 2001. The newest runway 4L/22R opened in mid-December 2001, about 2 months prior to the opening of the NW Worldgateway. Yes. All 4 runways c
45 Toxtethogrady : Every airport does this (see Houston's master plan, which has two new runways and a completely new terminal complex on it). It all looks good on pape
46 SLCUT2777 : How fast a portion or part of a master-plan that is to be implemented is funded depends on all sorts of variations ranging in raising landing and ter
47 GRRTVC : So whatever happen to the plan for the property to the south of Eureka road? Much of the land was bought by McNamara and cronies to develop into a hot
48 Dtw9 : Dingell Drive already goes to I-275
49 GRRTVC : By way of Eureka yes...there is/was a plan to build an interchange south at either Sibley or Pennsylvania.
50 Dtw9 : Just look at google maps and you will see the problems associated with putting an off-ramp at either Pennsylvania or Sibley. Sibley's would be to hard
51 PSU.DTW.SCE : They can't do much with the Eureka Rd / I-275 interchange because of the proximity to the threshold of 4L. They can't build anything higher than the c
52 Coronado : Michigan in spite of its current auto industry turmoils has a bright future as an economic center in the US for a few simple reasons: a) Water! Fresh
53 Post contains images Lightsaber : Thanks. Can I be amused that I was perfectly wrong in the order? IAH is growing fast enough to support growth. To do all of the master plan at once?
54 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : You can also be amused that plans for SLC change very quickly from time to time!
55 AAflyguy : Flew out of DTW yesterday evening, and it was a breeze (other than a late departing flight due to tardy crew). The drive in, parking, security, and to
56 WA707atMSP : I fly to the Detroit area several times a year to visit my parents in Birmingham. Although I agree that FNT is an easier airport to get in and out of
57 PW100 : Understand that. What I meant so ask was, do departures have to be sequenced with arrivals, or is the centerline distance between the runways suffici
58 DiscoverCSG : DFW has 7 runways, and ORD shortly will. The difference is that DFW can use all seven at once in certain conditions, whereas ORD has perform all kind
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