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AC SAN Summer Schedules V2.0  
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5335 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Time for another update regarding the ever-changing "AC Serves -- More or Less -- San Diego" saga!

The last installment, in ( SAN Here We Come ... Again. (by LongHauler Jan 11 2008 in Civil Aviation) ), had YYZ-SAN-YYZ going to an E-190 daily for the summer and YVR-SAN-YVR downgraded to Jazz (effective late March or April.)

I just got finished checking the booking engine and flight schedules the AC website and here's what they're showing (as of now...):

Eff. May 1, AC779 arr SAN 10:35am from YYZ (Sa & Su only); return is AC780 dep SAN 11:25am
...operated with A-319.
Eff. May 1, AC528 arr SAN 2:42pm from YVR (daily); return is AC529 dep SAN 3:25pm
...operated with E-190.

As far as I can tell, the YVR flight was never downgraded to Jazz, and will not be. The r/t is being moved to a couple of hours later; as it is staying daily, it appears that service must be doing fairly well. (Maybe the cruise scene demanded these times, or has the gate issue at Lindbergh reared its ugly head again?)

As for Toronto, well, maybe they re-thought the whole E-190-YYZ-SAN operational issue again (although people did say the length of the trip was NOT a problem) and decided to leave it a 319 but couldn't rationalize more than weekends only?

I've said it before and will repeat it: "Thanks for hanging in there with the YYZ service, AC." It hasn't been killed yet and they keep trying different scenarios for it so they must see enough potential to not give up. The other question that keeps coming to mind is whether SAN gate availablility and the resulting timing of the flights is at least partially to blame for the problem.

I suppose this would not be the time to wonder if YYC is even a remote possibility this summer...

Any thoughts or comments from the usual cast of San Diego or Air Canada characters? Do we now assume this will be the actual schedule that will run this summer? What will happen in the fall this year? Let the saga continue!

bb

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

I too noticed the weekend only service between YYZ & SAN. I would be very surprised if the service isn't offered daily, as California flights are boosted throughout the summer schedule. Think (hope) they are only tinkering around with schedules/equipment, etc and schedule hasn't been finalized. Loads on the 319 have been extremely high through the winter, and not sure why this route is always under review.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4879 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

As Air Canada sends A320s and A319s back to lessors as a part of the fleet plan devised during CCAA, narrow body Airbuses start to become in demand. The last of the 45 E190s is delivered this month ... so in my opinion, they have to fly somewhere!

This in mind I perused our Res computer during a snow delay, and looked at the summer schedule. I was surprised at the plans for SAN to say the least. There were a lot of urban legends and rumours about the YYZ-SAN-YYZ operation, but they were not aircraft limited, they were limited by restrictions placed on the aircraft due to its short time at AC. All of those restrictions have now been lifted. And, for the record, no YYZ-SAN E190 flight had to land short for fuel.

Playing with the computer I see that the E190 can fly YYZ-SAN with a full passenger load and baggage, fly against a 75 knot headwind, hold an ONT or LAX alternate (an alternate is always required at SAN regardless of the weather) and still have about 3000 Kgs open weight.

Interestingly enough, a few other E190 routes have been replaced with A319s this summer like YYZ-HAV. YYZ-IAH is going to a CRJ705 at Jazz from an E175. One has to wonder where the E190s are going?



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1615 times:



Quoting SANFan (Thread starter):
Eff. May 1, AC779 arr SAN 10:35am from YYZ (Sa & Su only); return is AC780 dep SAN 11:25am
...operated with A-319.

Let's pray that it will be an E190 Mon-Fri and they're just beefing up the weekend.

Otherwise, a solution would be to have LH fly FRA-YYZ-SAN and have AC code-share on the YYZ-SAN segment, thus saving AC an aircraft. But then again (ulterior motive warning in progress), this is just a secret way of trying to get LH in here some way, some how.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

For the Air Canada people out there, I will ask this has been proposed/considered:

Would a YYZ-SAN-YYZ routing work effectively if the YYZ-SAN flight left in the evening bank of flights, arriving in SAN in the evening, but instead of remaining overnight, turned around and did a red-eye back to YYZ?

Example:

dp YYZ 6:00 PM
ar SAN 8:20 PM

dp SAN 10:20 PM
ar YYZ 6:15 AM

For San Diegans, at least, there would many more connecting flights possible.

Best of luck, AC!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4879 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1544 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Would a YYZ-SAN-YYZ routing work effectively if the YYZ-SAN flight left in the evening bank of flights, arriving in SAN in the evening, but instead of remaining overnight, turned around and did a red-eye back to YYZ?

Shoot, sign me up for that! While a day turn as a one day cycle is possible, a night turn is not. Therefore, we would be forced to endure a SAN layover ..... yeeehaw!  Smile



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1535 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
For the Air Canada people out there, I will ask this has been proposed/considered:

Would a YYZ-SAN-YYZ routing work effectively if the YYZ-SAN flight left in the evening bank of flights, arriving in SAN in the evening, but instead of remaining overnight, turned around and did a red-eye back to YYZ?

Example:

dp YYZ 6:00 PM
ar SAN 8:20 PM

dp SAN 10:20 PM
ar YYZ 6:15 AM

For San Diegans, at least, there would many more connecting flights possible.

Best of luck, AC!!

The optimum schedule was the original schedule way back when the route commenced. Evening departure out of YYZ, overnighting aircraft, morning departure back to YYZ. This optimized European connectivity in both directions. As has been argued before, there probably is a lack of RON availability at SAN. Regarding the above proposed schedule, if it were to come to fruition, the crew would operate what we call an all-nighter turnaround. Ground time of two hours (which rarely occurs) on this proposed turn would have an impact on crew legality. A 1900-1915 departure ex YYZ could work.

I still contend that this route will operate as a daily E-190 -- think they're still tinkering with the schedules. Don't think they would bother with weekend only service. I don't think this loaded schedule has anything to do with cruise traffic. Summer cruise traffic for travellers from the east is focused on LAX/SEA/YVR.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineJasYHZ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Hi everyone,

I wonder will there be any major changes next winter. I'm cruising out of SAN on 03JAN and we're planning to do YHZ-YYZ-SAN on 01JAN and the schedule looks great; leave YHZ @ 0555 and then into SAN @ 1130 something. I'll still be on AST so we'll have a full day there pretty much.

Coming home it will be FLL-YYZ or YUL-YHZ.....no surprises there.

JasYHZ



"That's it! You just made the list!"
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1510 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):
Shoot, sign me up for that! While a day turn as a one day cycle is possible, a night turn is not. Therefore, we would be forced to endure a SAN layover ..... yeeehaw!

You'll really have to endure a SAN layover if for some reason you come in late and miss the turn around because of the 11:30pm departure curfew here. I see this happen to B6 a few times due to their tight turns up against the curfew but they cover the flight by ferrying an extra aircraft down from LGB. Otherwise, it's probably not a good idea to schedule it this way if you can help it.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5335 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Hey, good stuff and a nice amount of interest. (It's funny that one relatively little route on one airline is such good thread-fodder; it is one of the more dynamic I've encountered. Come to think of it, SAN-YVR has a rich and colorful past as well...)

Maybe it is possible that AC is still loading schedules. This year, there's a lot of drawn-out schedule unveiling, along with lots of changes even when the flights seem set, on MANY carriers -- B6 and DL immediately come to mind! Anyone (LongHaul' or FLYAC') know if AC schedule loading is usually a weekend thing?

I think I remember correctly that the (daily) E-190 to YYZ was recently loaded as this summer's schedule (and I don't believe it was a default schedule from last year) so the 319 assignment IS new. I do like Coronado's thought (reply 3) that perhaps the Mo-Fr flight will be using a 190. Bottom line, I fear, however, is that they had a daily 190 loaded already, then pulled it out and added the weekend-only Airbus in. The start date apparently is May 1 so I expect they will have to finalize something pretty quick...

I like PanAm's idea about the evening turn with a red-eye return but I have a feeling the gate-availability issue will be just as bad at that time of day as it is in the morning. If AC could just get away from the ball-and-chain that is UA's gates, I would really love to see what the Canadians would schedule for San Diego... But PanAm is right, it certainly wouldn't hurt to tap into some of the European connections in at least one direction!

bb


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4879 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1348 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
Anyone (LongHaul' or FLYAC') know if AC schedule loading is usually a weekend thing?

I was hoping the same thing, its a long process I understand. As I fly the EJets, I am curious where I will be flying. And no I rarely see FLYACYYZ on our EJets, he is more of an Asia/TLV kinda guy! That being said though ... give us SAN layovers, (again) and he will be back!

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 8):
You'll really have to endure a SAN layover if for some reason you come in late and miss the turn around because of the 11:30pm departure curfew here.

If it was a red-eye return, it would be a layover for us, as our max duty day is 12 hours on an overnight, and 14 for a day turn. But I was not aware of the SAN curfew, which is why there will not be such a schedule ... for that very reason!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2770 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1147 times:

I went to SAN over last month from YVR and the flight was nearly sold out. It was on the ERJ too, so a nice change on a new equipment.
I think SAN is good business in Western Canada and I think it should be deserving that YYC gets this city someday even on a seasonal basis. I bet lots of Calgarians would love to escape -45 degree windchills in the middle of january like I did.  Smile

YYC did have a SAN link a few years back from WestJet but that was taken off after like its first year.
I think possibility exists.

San Diego is a great city!!



Expanding my global domination one spotter at a time..
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5335 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1040 times:



Quoting BO__einG (Reply 11):
YYC did have a SAN link a few years back from WestJet but that was taken off after like its first year.
I think possibility exists

Yes, the Westjet "attempt" was a laugh but there are those who feel the market is there. (YYC is a targeted city of the SDCRAA -- the folks that run SAN -- meaning extra effort is expended to land service between the 2 cities.) AC is the obvious choice of all of us who would like to see a real effort at serving the market; a daily 190 flight would probably work well. I would also expect year 'round might work as there are attractions in each city all year that would attract tourists from the other city...

(BTW, thanks for the nice comment about Sandy Eggo!)

bb


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5335 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 993 times:

I thought I'd update this thread. As of Sunday night/Monday morning (I just checked the AC booking engine again) there is no change in the YYZ-SAN r/t flights this summer: they still show Sat and Sun only and on the Airbus.

I also noticed that starting October 1, the flights (YYZ-SAN-YYZ) are showing DAILY again, and still on the A-319! (And incidentally, there are no Fall changes to the YVR flight: same equipment and same timing as during the summer) ...as of now...

This YYZ-SAN-YYZ service upgrade to daily doesn't surprise me as fall/winter seem to be the "good" seasons for the flights. Yet it still seems odd that summer does (apparently) so poorly. In any case, I again appreciate the fact that AC keeps working at trying to find the right fit and keeps the flight going year 'round.

bb


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