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DL/NW: Awfully Quiet-Anything New?  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8050 times:

In this world of instant global communication, a week is an eternity, and it seems for at least a week, all has been quiet on the Merger Front between NW/DL.

Anyone have any new news on what's up with those two? Just curious, as the outcome COULD affect me down the road, what being with CO and all.....

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3588 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8040 times:

Just waiting on the pilots groups to agree on how to merge the seniority lists AFAIK.

User currently offlineDALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

Same here. Expected a proposal or a off deal sooner.

DALelite



They loved to fly and it showed..
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

According to Cercle Finance, announcement could come today or tomorrow (sorry, only in French). Also, StarTribune reported on Friday I believe that sources told the newspaper the agreement is finalized... but Anderson wanted to wait a few days to go public until the pilots iron out the senority issue.

Air France: annonce de la fusion Delta-Northwest imminente?

Cercle Finance | 25/02/08 - 15h36

(Cercle Finance) - Air France-KLM est prêt à soutenir de tout son poids financier le rapprochement entre Delta Air Lines et Northwest Airlines. La compagnie pourrait prendre selon Les Echos de ce matin une participation de 750 millions de dollars dans la nouvelle structure regroupant Delta Air Lines et Northwest Airlines. L'annonce de cette prise de participation devrait être faite dès l'annonce de la fusion des deux compagnies américaines. L'annonce de la fusion est imminente (aujourd'hui ou demain). Au regard de la loi antitrust américaine, Air France-KLM ne pourra en tout cas pas dépasser 25% du capital. L'essentiel sera toutefois préservé, car la compagnie franco-néerlandaise devrait disposer d'un siège au conseil d'administration et par la même occasion d'un droit de veto sur les décisions stratégiques.
Pierre-Henri Gourgeon a officiellement confirmé pendant la présentation des résultats ' nous sommes prêts à faire tous les efforts possibles pour favoriser le rapprochement de Delta et Northwest et nous examinerons donc favorablement une prise de participation '.
Pour Air France-KLM, le danger est en effet que Delta Air Lines opte pour une alliance avec une autre compagnie aérienne United Airlines avec qui il est également en discussions, mais qui a le défaut pour Air France-KLM d'être un partenaire de la compagnie allemande Lufthansa au sein de l'alliance Star Alliance. Or Air France-KLM, et Delta Air Lines collaborent actuellement au sein de l'alliance concurrente, Sky Team. Un tel mariage mettrait donc à mal leur coopération transatlantique.
Copyright (c) 2008 CercleFinance.com. Tous droits réservés.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7727 times:

deleted.


this post is too short

[Edited 2008-02-25 10:34:26]


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1462 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7394 times:

Its the calm before the storm!!!!!

User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7306 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Just waiting on the pilots groups to agree on how to merge the seniority lists AFAIK.

In other words it will take years before anything meaningful happens...

iwok


User currently offlineTL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

Does anyone think that this deal is done whether the pilots want it or not. The just seems like some attempt to give the pilots some ownership in the process but sooner or later the number will require the deal to go forward either way.

From what I have read it appears that the Northwest pilots do not like the idea of where they would fall in the seniority lists with respect to the newer Delta Pilots...but...where will they be in a few years if Northwest does not start receiving new planes....(granted delta is only recieving 12-18 planes....) ....It just seems that a deal is in their best interest with respect to job security....


User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7002 times:



Quoting TL8490 (Reply 7):
where will they be in a few years if Northwest does not start receiving new planes....(granted delta is only recieving 12-18 planes....) ....It just seems that a deal is in their best interest with respect to job security....

Northwest is currently hiring pilots. So there isn't really a job security threat from that standpoint. Older pilots will retire while younger pilots are still being hired, so all of the pilots will still continue to gain in seniority...not lose.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3090 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Here is one place to keep monitoring:

Flight Plan: NWA-Delta Merger Talks

http://www.startribune.com/business/15798792.html


User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

This has probably been discussed, but assuming this merger goes through, will this likely force the hand of UA and CO merging?


Heia Norge!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5906 times:



Quoting Flybynight (Reply 10):
will this likely force the hand of UA and CO merging?

Yes. That is what the majority of people think. (I am speaking for them now.)


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

I suspect one of two things as it relates to the 5 days calm now:

(1) Discussions are still ongoing, and DL/NW threatened and gagged loose-lipped union officials and membership, as frankly the amount of "person close to the talks" leakage to the media has been ridiculous over the past two weeks.

(2) Discussions have concluded and an agreement reached on senority lists, and BOD's along with AF are reviewing the proposals in detail as we sit here and wait for the final word.

I suspect #2 is closest to the truth at this point.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5456 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 12):
(2) Discussions have concluded and an agreement reached on senority lists, and BOD's along with AF are reviewing the proposals in detail as we sit here and wait for the final word.

I suspect #2 is closest to the truth at this point.

I would suspect that option #2 is farthest from the current reality. We know for certain that as of the end of the weekend, no seniority agreement was reached. Northwest ALPA informed its pilots that it ended its two day conference in suburban Minneapolis with no agreement and no voting. So seniority, as of this weekend, is a no-go. If some agreement was reached today (and that is a BIG if), then we would definitely hear the rumblings of an announcement for tomorrow or emergency board meetings or something to that effect. The fact of the matter is, this merger is the worst kept secret in business right now. Every move has been reported by someone...those anonymous sources up until now have no disincentive to stop reporting (unless they've been figured out....which I doubt).

Keep in mind that everything is set to go besides the pilots being on board with seniority....and be assured that NW and DL want this to go through as quickly as possible and thus need it to be announced and get the ball rolling for regulatory review ASAP. They are not just sitting back on a done deal reviewing everything. Lots of things can be worked out after a deal is announced....all they need is the meet of the agreements....which are done now and are just waiting for the final pilot stamp.

So the best guess would be that they are still waiting on the pilot seniority to be worked out. In the next week or so, if the pilots still haven't agreed, I imagine management will give the pilots a deadline/ultimatum. They will say either by March 3 (just throwing that date out there), get an agreement or A) we announce the merger without the agreement or B) no merger and no pay raise.


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5314 times:



Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 13):
So the best guess would be that they are still waiting on the pilot seniority to be worked out. In the next week or so, if the pilots still haven't agreed, I imagine management will give the pilots a deadline/ultimatum. They will say either by March 3 (just throwing that date out there), get an agreement or A) we announce the merger without the agreement or B) no merger and no pay raise.

I would agree with that assesment and they may, quite possibly, go forward with this merger without the pilot seniority issued ironed out. It was a long shot to pull that off anyway. Why would the companies get 95% of this very complex merger figured out and agreed upon on both sides only to walk away because of the self centered, squabbling pilots. On the other hand, DL might be serious about this impasse jepardizing the 20 billion dollar deal and could wlak away, stand alone, or pursue other suitors. My gut feeling is that this deal is getting done one way or another.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5122 times:



Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 14):
Why would the companies get 95% of this very complex merger figured out and agreed upon on both sides only to walk away because of the self centered, squabbling pilots. On the other hand, DL might be serious about this impasse jepardizing the 20 billion dollar deal and could wlak away, stand alone, or pursue other suitors. My gut feeling is that this deal is getting done one way or another.

If the deal gets called off, both groups of pilots will end up with much less than what was anticipated.....and possibly a hostile takeover with less favorable terms for either side.


User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5097 times:



Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 14):
It was a long shot to pull that off anyway. Why would the companies get 95% of this very complex merger figured out and agreed upon on both sides only to walk away because of the self centered, squabbling pilots.

Unless you know what you're talking about, STFU. Pilots are not the self-centered ego maniacs most folks think them to be. It could easily be argued that upper management falls into that category. The fact that many people think that pilot jobs will be lost in a deal gives many pilots pause.

Before you go acting like the pilots are just a bunch of spoiled brats, how 'bout if you walk a mile or work a month in their shoes. The fact that mergers have often ended with multi-millionaire managers and unemployed pilots is reason enough to be suspicious of this whole thing.

Not a lot of trust going on......



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21457 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5058 times:

Only 5 more days until the Texas and Ohio primaries...  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offline737DAB320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5050 times:



Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 16):
Unless you know what you're talking about, STFU. Pilots are not the self-centered ego maniacs most folks think them to be. It could easily be argued that upper management falls into that category. The fact that many people think that pilot jobs will be lost in a deal gives many pilots pause.

Before you go acting like the pilots are just a bunch of spoiled brats, how 'bout if you walk a mile or work a month in their shoes. The fact that mergers have often ended with multi-millionaire managers and unemployed pilots is reason enough to be suspicious of this whole thing.

Not a lot of trust going on......

Someone need to relax.



Nothing is certain.
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4961 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

If Delta and Northwest want to merge, to make Wall Street and speculators happy, there will be a merger.
Pilots, other emplyees can just tough it out, while the money mamagers enjoy the flight to the bank.  old 


User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4853 times:



Quoting 737DAB320 (Reply 18):

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 16):
Unless you know what you're talking about, STFU. Pilots are not the self-centered ego maniacs most folks think them to be. It could easily be argued that upper management falls into that category. The fact that many people think that pilot jobs will be lost in a deal gives many pilots pause.

Before you go acting like the pilots are just a bunch of spoiled brats, how 'bout if you walk a mile or work a month in their shoes. The fact that mergers have often ended with multi-millionaire managers and unemployed pilots is reason enough to be suspicious of this whole thing.

Not a lot of trust going on......

Someone need to relax.

Perhaps, but he is correct.

727forever



727forever
User currently offlineTCFC424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4855 times:

It is typical in M&A terms to have a "quiet period" in which no news comes about. The reason for this is the hammering out of all possibilities, and that very well could include the pilots union, as DL/NW seem to want them involved. Typically these "final talks" occur at a remote location and each person has to sign a confidentiality agreement, as any info would send stock prices awry...not good for the market.

I too, noticed this lack of information, and I look at it as no news is good news...the deal isn't dead, or they would be saying so. Things are progressing, and as soon as NW announces something, so will CO...ala UA. Perwork appeared magically today in the breakroom (provided courteously by ALPA) of the "Merger Scenarios." Basically, it seems that CAL and UAL pilots (or ALPA for obvious reasons) like that scenario.

Give it time...Rome wasn't built in a day...


User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

It's going to be awfully hard for both pilot groups not to come to an agreement on this. The alternative is to wait until both airlines are again in trouble (which should take about 3 or 4 yrs), then see what kind of deal mgt will offer. If that happens, stock ownership will not be worth as much as today. Reason?....building the stock price from a strong position today is much easier than building it off the scrap heap of what will be left in 3 or 4 yrs. By that time, with Open Skys all the international carriers will have established a strong foothold......better equipment, better service, better financials.....all equal a significant advantage in acquiring mkt share. If they can't come to an agreement on this, then they should fire the MEC.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11387 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

It's important to remember than DL and NW don't need the pilots' blessing to sign the paperwork and announce the deal. Admittedly, it would be nice, and smooth things along through the integration process - assuming the deal even gets approved by the DoJ. But it's hardly required. I applaud DL and NW for even trying to avoid the chaos that has ensued at US because they were complete dipsh*ts in integrating the two companies (shocking, I know). But, that being said, at some point, the management teams may just have to say - if we want to get this deal done, one way or another, by a certain point (January 2009, perhaps), then we may just have to go ahead and go and sort out the pilot integration later on.

From what I've read, though, it doesn't seem like the pilots' unions are that far apart, and may well be able to work something out. However, this too could spell problems for DL/NW, as it is going to complicate the merger process and the financial outcome of the deal if - in order to induce the pilots to do a deal - the company has to give them big raises, bonuses, benefits or equity in the company. So we'll see.

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 16):
Pilots are not the self-centered ego maniacs most folks think them to be.

Plenty of them are. Not all, but plenty.

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 16):
It could easily be argued that upper management falls into that category.

Often times, yes.


User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3534 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 23):
I applaud DL and NW for even trying to avoid the chaos that has ensued at US because they were complete dipsh*ts in integrating the two companies

US has had its fair share of integration problems....but US can in no way be blamed for the pilot integration. That is an issue that management has no jurisdiction and is not allowed to influence proceedings at all. That is why this is dragging out....DL and NW can't do anything in the process but sit back and wait for an agreement.

That said, yes, DL and NW should be applauded for trying to get this worked out ahead of time because I don't think I can recall a case where pilot issues were worked out before a merger was consummated.


25 Commavia : That's just the point, though. Technically, they don't have to wait for anything. They can just sign the deal and tell the pilots to work it out over
26 Avek00 : The deal isn't done until the companies are actually merged, and that's over a year away from happening even if a deal was announced today. There are
27 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : But if they go behind the pilots' back now and do the deal without their consent....the pilots union will likely be strong opposition to the merger.
28 Mm320cap : Actually, there is a serious threat here. WIth the recently enacted change to age 60 retirement, there will be few if any retirements over the next 5
29 Post contains links WorldTraveler : just a note about the leaks that have gone on in this "worst kept merger". There are fair disclosure laws that require certain companies to ensure in
30 Flighty : That is exactly why DL and NW are giving ALPA an extra 2 weeks or so to deal with this. As a point of etiquette considering the difficulties seen ove
31 Surfdog75 : You're right they don't need the pilots on-board to do the deal. Management could run two separate groups and even reward the group they think has be
32 Atpcliff : Hi! Mergers: Also, the SWA CEO said that if mergers start, then SWA WILL merge with someone. So, who could it be? Most people think it's SWA/AirTran.
33 Bucky707 : By calender based seniority I assume you mean by Date of hire. But read what you said after that. Disruptions to the status quo. That is exactly why
34 Azjubilee : Things are quiet and progress is slow with the seniority issue because ALPA will not let this mgmt emergency affect doing what's right. There is this
35 Post contains images Ikramerica : Actually, Texas and Ohio primaries are 7 days away. Thought they were on Sat, but they are Tuesdays. So expect an announcement next Wed or Thursday at
36 Post contains links PHXtoDCAtoMSP : Check out this story that is being picked up by several news sources currently that speaks of a memo from Anderson to Delta employees late today sayin
37 Post contains links KarlB737 : Here's the latest info from Atlanta: Courtesy: The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Delta Execs: Deal Doesn't Meet 'all of our principles' http://www.ajc.
38 Bobnwa : If the arbitration decided something you were not happy with as a DL pilot, would you go along with it or refuse to, as the US East pilots did. What
39 Burnsie28 : Your right they don't need their blessing if they don't want to have a company around anymore. As of the latest Council update, doesn't look as if th
40 Justloveplanes : Actually, this is probably the safest pilot friendly merger imaginable as NW and DL overlap so little, and both are growing. For this merger, the one
41 SNCntry32 : Man, I remember WorldTravlers post about AF-DL-KL-NW creating the first global airline. Good times. I think this whole industry was founded on a rumo
42 Nwaesc : From the AJC article: "... said Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson and President Ed Bastian in the memo. ".... We have a strong standalone plan. W
43 Flighty : Which was completely chicken sh/t. No, it is not possible to keep everybody in their same job. No, a Delta 757 pilot is probably not equal to a North
44 Bucky707 : Personally I would go along. Quote me on that. Binding arbitration is binding. I understand that. And I have no problem going to arbitration. It's no
45 WorldTraveler : And is a 757 pilot at DL really a 757/767 pilot because of the common type rating. So a 757 domestic pilot really is bidding on about 160 757s and 76
46 Flighty : No, that kind of attitude will just sink the ship. You are suggesting DL pilots are overall more "something" than NW. That just won't work. NW and DL
47 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : But arbitration would not necessarily ensure that "Delta's employee seniority is secure". Richard Anderson said that he wouldn't enter into any trans
48 EssentialPowr : Its how we make a living, bud. So by all accounts, who is stopping this deal at the moment, who is holding the crucial card in the deck????? The guys
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