Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9998 times:
After first reports last years KE Wants To Fly To GRU And JNB (by LIPZ Jun 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) KE has now confirmed it will operate ICN-LAX-GRU B772 (260 seats in 3 classes). Flighst will start on 03 June 2008 and operate 3 x week. The flight will first start as LAX-GRU and during the second semester of 2008 will add LAX-ICN leg.
KE will now offer connections from Brazil to Asia via its hub in ICN. Brazilians dont need VISA for Korea, although the stop-over in LAX will require transit visa. This is another new airline in GRU which last year had the addition of EK to DXB nonstop and AC to PEK via MAD.
UAL747 From United States, joined Dec 1999, 6272 posts, RR: 22 Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9996 times:
I wonder why they are doing this via LAX? Would be great if they had freedom rights to pick up pax at LAX but I don't see that happening. I would think ICN-(MidUSA)-GRU would be better positioned for the flight. After all, DFW for example has 4 x flights a week and those flights could utilize the same aircraft to continue to GRU and back to DFW and still keep the same frequencies and utilize the same aircraft for more flights instead of dedicating another 772ER to an already saturated and expensive LAX market with higher landing fees and tighter slots, and less adequate facilities.
UAL747 From United States, joined Dec 1999, 6272 posts, RR: 22 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9952 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2): I suppose the 777 will be more economic then 747 used prior, however now there is the added complication of visas which did not exist in the 90s.
Yup, sad but true....the JAL NRT-JFK-GRU flight still works well, however.
The only way to get around it would be to do something like ICN-YVR/YYZ-GRU or ICN-TIJ-GRU, the latter being less attractive, and MEX probably being out of the question.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9925 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2): So they are reintroducing what they dropped back in 2001.
Correct, but back 7 years ago the flight also had a stop over in LIM, which made it less competitive.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1): I wonder why they are doing this via LAX?
There is not West coast-Brazil nonstop service at the moment. It is expected that TAM could also start LAX-GRU daily nonstop by end of 2008, but nothing confirmed yet.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1): After all, DFW for example has 4 x flights a week and those flights could continue to GRU and back to DFW
LAX would be more competitive since there is no service US West coast-Brazil at the moment. KE was also examining the possibilty of operating ICN-MIA-GRU but this would be more complex since it would add two new destinations in the same flight.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2): I suppose the 777 will be more economic then 747 used prior, however now there is the added complication of visas which did not exist in the 90s.
The US visa issue seems to be less of a problem now since demand for US-Brazl has been very strong lately. This explains why KE will start the flight as LAX-GRU only and later in 2008 as ICN-LAX-GRU.
In terms of connections from Brazil to Asia, KE will have a lot of competition with European airlines (no VISA requited for Europe, UK and Switzerland), plus the fact that EK now also operates in GRU, AC has its own metal flying from GRU to PEK, and finally JAL still flies its metal from GRU to NRT B747.
GRU is really becoming a major airport with plenty of service for a multitude of destinations.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9910 times:
Thanks, you are correct. I think I confused with RG which operated to NRT via LIM for a brief period;
One correction above is that presently LAN flies GRU-LAX but the service has a stop over in LIM. It means that KE will operate the first nonstop service between US West Coast and Brazil - in case TAM does not start its own service GRU-LAX nonstop before June 2008!
UAL747 From United States, joined Dec 1999, 6272 posts, RR: 22 Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9806 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4): LAX would be more competitive since there is no service US West coast-Brazil at the moment. KE was also examining the possibilty of operating ICN-MIA-GRU but this would be more complex since it would add two new destinations in the same flight.
Yes, BUT, do they have the rights to take on passengers at LAX? Those rights are hard to get in the US, and there is only one other flight I can think of that has them, and that is JFK-GRU on JAL, but that's probably evolved due to the fact that there are lots of US based airlines with 5th freedom rights through NRT to other destinations all over Asia. Not the same with ICN.
The stop would only be a technical stop, and would not take on LAX-GRU bound pax. Now, people could exit LAX, and perhaps fly onward to GRU another day, but US citizens would not be able to book LAX-GRU unless KE got some new rights I didn't know about, which is why I'm saying that DFW would be a better choice as we already have the base to support a 4x weekly flight between ICN-DFW, therefore, why not keep the plane in the western hemisphere and send it on to GRU from DFW 3x week like they are planning with LAX, and first, save about 300 nm, lower landing fees, better facilities, etc. The only other place I could think of is ATL, but I think they have 7x weekly service, so you wouldn't have an extra 777 laying around on that route. It would also save them from having to displace several 777s to do LAX-GRU route.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 59 Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9775 times:
Very good news, one more link Asia-São Paulo ! But hard to compete against EK for Asia with two stops (including the required immigration in LAX). Lets see, but i have doubts about the performance of this flight for connections, seems to be it will be strong on GRU-LAX with some passengers to South Korea.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): No was nonstop LAX-GRU departing the afternoon.
And probably will be another flight departing in the afternoon as KE15 arrives by 2PM at LAX. I believe it's the aircraft to be used on the LAX-GRU flight.
Funny that the aircraft probably comes from ICN and make no sense to not offer ICN (as well as one thing it's 5th freedom another is to offer a sole LAX-GRU flight).
Probably it hurts the plans for a JJ flight GRU-LAX.
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1867 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9751 times:
Any confirmation to expand the Korean Air Cargo network to Santiago (SCL)? According Ken Choi ex director of KAL Cargo the plans want to expand the cargo network including Sao Paulo and Santiago as new destination.
One plan for 2008 is to develop Latin American traffic through the Miami gateway. Sao Paulo and Santiago are possible destinations, said Choi.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 24603 posts, RR: 72 Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9718 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11):
Yes, BUT, do they have the rights to take on passengers at LAX?
Yes.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11): Those rights are hard to get in the US, and there is only one other flight I can think of that has them, and that is JFK-GRU on JAL,
They are not hard to get at all. AR has full 5th freedom on Miami-Brazil, as does LAB.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 24603 posts, RR: 72 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9697 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 15): If Korean have 5th freedoms on LAX-GRU, will Delta codeshare on this leg as part of their LAX focus city?
That isn't automatic. Codeshare rights must be applied for, and will not necessarily be approved. For example, DL was rejected after attempting to codeshare with AF on MIA-PAP.
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3539 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9549 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11): Yes, BUT, do they have the rights to take on passengers at LAX? Those rights are hard to get in the US, and there is only one other flight I can think of that has them, and that is JFK-GRU on JAL, but that's probably evolved due to the fact that there are lots of US based airlines with 5th freedom rights through NRT to other destinations all over Asia. Not the same with ICN.
Yes they do, and no those right are not at all hard to get. There are countless airlines who have them. Virtually every Asian carrier operating to the US via Europe. You can buy a JFK-FRA ticket on SQ for example.
Misbeehavin From United States, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9515 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20): Yes they do, and no those right are not at all hard to get. There are countless airlines who have them. Virtually every Asian carrier operating to the US via Europe. You can buy a JFK-FRA ticket on SQ for example.
I think it was usually only LHR that was the problem when the Asian carriers wanted to fly from Asia to JFK or wherever through LHR. Any idea if open skies will ease those restrictions?
Yes, BUT, do they have the rights to take on passengers at LAX?
Yes.
Thanks Mark
Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter): ICN-LAX-GRU B772 (260 seats in 3 classes). Flighst will start on 03 June 2008 and operate 3 x week. The flight will first start as LAX-GRU and during the second semester of 2008 will add LAX-ICN leg.
Do we know which days of the week this flight will operate?
GatiBOSGRU From Brazil, joined Oct 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9388 times:
You Snooze, You Lose !!!
The GRU-LAX leg should have been served way before by a Brazilian or American carrier. Hope that route preforms well !!! Good luck JJ if they decide to start that same route !!!
Great to see more airlines investing and flying to Brazil !!!
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9339 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4): There is not West coast-Brazil nonstop service at the moment. It is expected that TAM could also start LAX-GRU daily nonstop by end of 2008, but nothing confirmed yet.
TAM announced MIA-MAO service after Copa announced their service to Manaus. Who knows, the Korean announcement may function as an enticement for TAM to go ahead and compete at LAX.
HALFA From United States, joined Jan 2004, 1070 posts, RR: 16 Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9307 times:
Great news!
I fly this route several times per year and taking the old RG route from LAX-GRU-GIG was always the best. Does KE have any codeshare agreements with any Brazilian carriers serving GRU-GIG? Will it be possible to book a KE ticket LAX-GRU-GIG?
Anyone know what days/times this new flight will operate?
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9754 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3): JAL NRT-JFK-GRU flight still works well, however.
I wonder if these flights has any link to sex tourism. It is well known that a lot of sex tourists originate from Japan or South Korea and Brazil is one of the typical sex tourist destinations. Hope no one will get offended here.
If that's the case then it would be quite bad PR for those airlines who facilitates such tours.
SRT75 From United States, joined Jul 2005, 210 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9720 times:
This should be a good route for KE, as LAX-Brazil non-stop has been non-existent since RG folded.
But as far as GRU-ICN, two observations. First, this flight is going the "wrong" way. A shorter route would be GRU-LHR-ICN (or GRU-Europe-ICN). By going west, the flight adds about 7% to length.
Second, the visa problem with a LAX stoppover could be a huge headache. Also, you are required to de-board, go through customs, and re-enter security if transiting through LAX.
How much Brazil-Korea traffic is there, and would this routing beat out the alternatives?
HALFA From United States, joined Jan 2004, 1070 posts, RR: 16 Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9706 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 27): I wonder if these flights has any link to sex tourism. It is well known that a lot of sex tourists originate from Japan or South Korea and Brazil is one of the typical sex tourist destinations.
Oh yes, I'm sure Korean Air is starting service to Brazil so they can market it to the masses as their newest destination for sex tourism. Are you serious?
Sao Paulo has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan and a rapidly growing Korean population as well. I'm sure the new flight will do well with the Samsung, Daewoo, and Hyundai execs.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9669 times:
Quoting HALFA (Reply 29): they can market it to the masses as their newest destination for sex tourism. Are you serious?
Of course they wouldn't market it as such. Do you think they market the ICN-CRK flight as one? Not really, but there certainly is a link (not saying all passengers are targeting this).
Fly2YYZ From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2006, 461 posts, RR: 2 Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9612 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 30): Of course they wouldn't market it as such. Do you think they market the ICN-CRK flight as one? Not really, but there certainly is a link (not saying all passengers are targeting this).
Well then I'm sure if you had done more research you would find that the Philippines are becoming a place that Koreans are retiring. Also Clark being a special economic zone of the Philippines it does attract many investors as well...foreign investment is huge in the region since Arroyo pushed a law into effect to regenerate the region in 2007.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9541 times:
Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 31): Well then I'm sure if you had done more research you would find that the Philippines are becoming a place that Koreans are retiring. Also Clark being a special economic zone of the Philippines it does attract many investors as well...foreign investment is huge in the region since Arroyo pushed a law into effect to regenerate the region in 2007.
I know that. If you read my post thoroughly I'm just wondering if there is a link. Not saying everyone on board is hopping the clubs of Angeles City.
RG's route was GRU-LIM-LAX-NRT. Didn't VASP fly GRU-LAX-ICN (I think it was Kimpo in the past)? It started 3 weekly down to once weekly, what happened to all 3 major airlines in Brazil (Varig, VASP, TransBrazil[awesome livery])? Did they all disappear? Can anyone elaborate?
UAL747 From United States, joined Dec 1999, 6272 posts, RR: 22 Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9321 times:
Well great! I'm glad Korean have the rights to fly LAX-GRU, it will indeed be a VERY luctrative route, not only as a route for Californians to Brazil, but for the many Asians living in Brazil! Still wish it were through DFW, but hey, gotta give Korean props for tapping into an untapped market since Varig! Kudos! I have a huge love for Korean Air for some reason. I think it is because it's the only Asian carrier to service DFW, my international airport of choice, and having used them across the Pacific to China, their 744's are just wonderful, or were in 2001, with seat pitch in economy! On the DFW-ICN flight, I was asked by an f/a if I could pull up my ECONOMY SEAT! so the person behind me could eat their dinner! I couldn't believe how far those things went back! Though, IFE would have been nice on a 13 hour flight!, HEHE! (And I think they have one of the best color schemes in the sky!)
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 17 Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9140 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 37): Does anyone have the load factors for the JAL flight JFK-GRU for 2007/08?
I was in it a few years ago NRT-JFK-GRU and the plane was half full. It is just a single trip but if the flight was profitable they would have already tried to increase frequency.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 1592 posts, RR: 5 Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9058 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3): The only way to get around it would be to do something like ICN-YVR/YYZ-GRU or ICN-TIJ-GRU, the latter being less attractive, and MEX probably being out of the question.
Technically, the 777 is not capable to make MEX-ICN as non-stop without payload penalties regarding the altitude in MEX.
Some examples to support that sentence are AM MEX-TIJ-NRT 2x weekly and AM MEX-TIJ-PVG soon. Both operations served with 777 equipment.
.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4): In terms of connections from Brazil to Asia, KE will have a lot of competition with European airlines (no VISA requited for Europe, UK and Switzerland),
SkyTeam global system is capable to operate daily AF GRU-CDG and then AF/KE CDG-ICN. Schedules fit perfectly to allow comfortable connections through CDG.
It also should be noted that KE and AF code-share operations between CDG and ICN.
The most interesting fact is concerning to compare the trip heading either eastbound or westbound. The current choice is shorter than the forthcoming KE GRU-LAX and then KE LAX-ICN.
Option 1
AF GRU-CDG: 5065 nm
KE/AF CDG-ICN: 4832 nm
Total: 9897 nm **
Option 2
KE GRU-LAX: 5350 nm
KE LAX-ICN: 5209 nm
Total: 10 559 nm **
** Based on Great Circle Mapper. Distances have been measured as straight line. This information may not be accurate or current and is not valid for navigation or flight planning.
By the way, other possibilities are available to link GRU to ICN nowadays.
.
Quoting AF022 (Reply 36): RG operated this route, once per week. But it also operated GRU-LAX-NRT and GRU-LAX-NGO without the LIM stop far more frequently.
Correct. I have with myself the VARIG's timetable [edited: March 1993], due to in those days RG flew to my hometown: San Jose, Costa Rica.
Let me quote the comprehensive routes:
RG 832....GIG-GRU-LIM-LAX-NRT....74D.....Once a week
RG 836....GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT..........743..... Twice a week
RG 834....GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT..........743......Once a week
RG 838....GIG-GRU-LAX-NGO.........743......Once a week.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 1636 posts, RR: 13 Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9037 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 38): It is just a single trip but if the flight was profitable they would have already tried to increase frequency.
Well, it's hard to keep it profitable, when the route needs almost four planes to be flown. When an aircraft leaves NRT on Sunday and only returns on Wednesday, things get difficult.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8667 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12): Very good news, one more link Asia-São Paulo ! But hard to compete against EK for Asia with two stops (including the required immigration in LAX). Lets see, but i have doubts about the performance of this flight for connections, seems to be it will be strong on GRU-LAX with some passengers to South Korea.
I think the flight has all ingredients to work and I am sure KE did its homework before lauching the route. KE has an excellent onboard product and the winner is Brazil which will have another top carrier landing in GRU.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12): Probably it hurts the plans for a JJ flight GRU-LAX.
There is no doubt about it. And as I mentioned, KE has an excellent onboard product which will make it hard for TAM to compete. I have sources from Korea that mentioned that KE was "rushing" to operate the flight in order to preclude any move by TAM.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 11): Yes, BUT, do they have the rights to take on passengers at LAX? Those rights are hard to get in the US
YES. KE would have full 5th freedom rights for LAX.
Quoting GatiBOSGRU (Reply 23): Great to see more airlines investing and flying to Brazil !!!
In 2007 we had EK GRU-DXB and AC PEK-MAD-GRU.
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 27): I wonder if these flights has any link to sex tourism. It is well known that a lot of sex tourists originate from Japan or South Korea and Brazil is one of the typical sex tourist destinations
This is rubish.
Just to give you some information of Korean investment in Brazil, the following Korean companies have production plants in Brazil: Daewoo, LG, Samsung, SK, Hyundai, POSCO (USD1 billion investment in co-operation with Eletrobras).
In addition, there is a substantive community of Korean living in Brazil (although in smaller number than the Japanese). Different from the Japanese, which arrived in Sao Paulo at the turn of the century, the Korean migrated to Brazil in the early 60s. The Korean community in Brazil is responsibel for 40% of Brazil's textile production. Most of Korean living in Brazil are in Sao Paulo in the area of Bom Retiro, where the Korean school is located, Aclimação and Liberdade. There are 1,000 supermarkets of Korean food in Sao Paulo alone.
Quoting HALFA (Reply 29): Sao Paulo has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan and a rapidly growing Korean population as well. I'm sure the new flight will do well with the Samsung, Daewoo, and Hyundai execs.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 37): Does anyone have the load factors for the JAL flight JFK-GRU for 2007/08?
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 2672 posts, RR: 8 Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8665 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter): The flight will first start as LAX-GRU and during the second semester of 2008 will add LAX-ICN leg.
What am I missing here? Will KE position a 777 in LAX and operate only the LAX-GRU-LAX sectors for a few months without the corresponding ICN-LAX-ICN sectors?
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8603 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 46): What am I missing here? Will KE position a 777 in LAX and operate only the LAX-GRU-LAX sectors for a few months without the corresponding ICN-LAX-ICN sectors?
The B772 to operate LAX-GRU will be a continuation of ICN-LAX. Apparently KE decided to start LAX-GRU first instead of ICN-LAX-GRU. In my opinion GRU will be a continuation of KE 015/KE 016 which operates 3 x weekly.
Interesting to note that in KE press release dated 01 February 2008 KE announces it will open GRU and MUC as new routes in 2008. GRU is now confirmed.
SEOUL, Korea (February 1, 2008) – Korean Air, the flagship carrier of South Korea, today announced its 2007 fourth quarter results for the three months ended December 31, 2007. Operating revenue increased by 8.9% to 2,302 billion Korean won as compared to 2,115 billion Korean won for the same period last year. Korean Air concluded 2007 with a full year operating revenue of 8,812 billion won and an operating income of 637 billion won, representing an increase of 9.1% and 28.0% respectively, mainly driven by the growth in international passenger and cargo revenue.
In 2008, Korean Air will continue to focus on profitability enhancement by increasing sales in the premium passenger sector, expanding international markets and developing new routes such as Sao Paulo and Munich.
LACA773 From United States, joined Nov 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 2 Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8502 times:
Do any of our Brazilian friends have any idea what this will do to JJ's plans on starting service to LAX? Is there a possiblilty they will fly the route on opposite days that KE doesnt'? Just a thought....
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 1636 posts, RR: 13 Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8415 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 47):
The B772 to operate LAX-GRU will be a continuation of ICN-LAX. Apparently KE decided to start LAX-GRU first instead of ICN-LAX-GRU. In my opinion GRU will be a continuation of KE 015/KE 016 which operates 3 x weekly.
What you're saying does not make sense at all. You're just perpetuating the mistake of that idiot pseudo-journalist at Panrotas. There is no way of starting LAX-GRU without a ICN-LAX leg, even if the the flight number is different, but that would not be possible AFAIK, since they do not hold 7th freedom rights between the US and Brazil.
I dont know the journalist in question, therefore I would reserve any comments regarding his persona. I do read his posts, which I think are relevant for aviation news though.
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 48): Do any of our Brazilian friends have any idea what this will do to JJ's plans on starting service to LAX?
In case JJ starts the route it would operate daily, which would give TAM an advantage. However, taking into account that KE would operate with its new configurated aircraft to Brazil (all LAX flights have the new product), this would put TAM in a difficult situation. TAM product may look good as compared to US carriers, but it is a far cry in relation to KE or some other Asian and European carriers.
KE currently operates 24 weekly flights to LAX (17 weekly nonstop and 7 weekly via NRT) and it could place a continuation code to any of these to GRU, which means that KE "virtually" could operate LAX-GRU daily. The indication, however, is that KE would use for GRU its current KE015/016 B772 3 weekly.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8166 times:
Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 32): KE will join BA, EK, MH and SA in being the only airlines flying to all continents (except Antarctica ofcourse!).
KE still does not fly to Africa. KE had plans for NBO in 2008 (now shelved due to the policatical situation) and JNB, which would certainly not open before 2009.
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3539 posts, RR: 8 Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8155 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 49): There is no way of starting LAX-GRU without a ICN-LAX leg, even if the the flight number is different, but that would not be possible AFAIK, since they do not hold 7th freedom rights between the US and Brazil.
Yes it is possible. I think what he means is that KE won't be selling through tickets ICN-LAX-GRU. At first you will only be able to buy ICN-LAX and LAX-GRU.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8115 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 52): Yes it is possible. I think what he means is that KE won't be selling through tickets ICN-LAX-GRU. At first you will only be able to buy ICN-LAX and LAX-GRU.
You are right and KE also wants to allow its GRU-LAX to allow for smooth connection for its LAX-NRT B747 nonstop. In other words, KE would not only capture the LAX-GRU O&D market but also use LAX for connetions to both ICN and NRT. From ICN, KE would provide connetions to other destinations. It seems that the route combining LAX, Korea and Japan has the ingredients to provide good results.
Ktachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 2 Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8057 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 53): From ICN, KE would provide connetions to other destinations
Yeah, but who would? I mean GRU-JFK-NRT was actually closer proven by some other a.net member a couple of months ago on the Great Circle Mapper. From ICN, I could see it happening, but if you are traveling to Southeast Asia for example, why not fly the other way and go to Europe and take a flight from there? Then the visa requirements are laxed. I only think this will attract the families of those immigrants and several Korean MNCs execs.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 17 Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7642 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 50): KE currently operates 24 weekly flights to LAX (17 weekly nonstop and 7 weekly via NRT) and it could place a continuation code to any of these to GRU, which means that KE "virtually" could operate LAX-GRU daily. The indication, however, is that KE would use for GRU its current KE015/016 B772 3 weekly.
By the way there is that usual obstacle to Korean operating daily to Brazil - ANAC. The bilateral only allows flights 3 times a week. Thus the adequate supply of a travel product between Brazil and Korea by Brazilian and Korean airlines is subject to the whims of an idiot sitting behind a desk in Brasilia, who is "safeguarding" the marketplace. Meanwhile, other airlines from North America, Europe and Asia can offer dozens of daily services connecting through their respective countries. The Raj bureaucracy lives on... in Brazil.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7599 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 56): has KE dropped Cairo ? last time I checked that was on the African continent
You are right, although some would argue! Just kidding. CAI is served by KE but included in KE world map as a Middle Eastern destination.
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 55): By the way there is that usual obstacle to Korean operating daily to Brazil - ANAC. The bilateral only allows flights 3 times a week. Thus the adequate supply of a travel product between Brazil and Korea by Brazilian and Korean airlines is subject to the whims of an idiot sitting behind a desk in Brasilia, who is "safeguarding" the marketplace. Meanwhile, other airlines from North America, Europe and Asia can offer dozens of daily services connecting through their respective countries. The Raj bureaucracy lives on... in Brazil.
You are totally right, though I personally think KE intention is to operate 3 weekly service. I dont know which burocracy is more lost in their busienss whether ANAC or INFRAZERO...the latest news in INFRAZERO is the CPQ/CVP will now become South America's biggest hub....
Kiwiandrew From Mauritius, joined Jun 2005, 4797 posts, RR: 15 Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7563 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 51): KE still does not fly to Africa.
for some reason the edit function isnt working so couldnt add to my previous post , but I just checked KE schedules and they still fly ICN-CAI three times per week so the new ICN-LAX-GRU flight will put KE in the '6 continent club'
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosevelt
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 1636 posts, RR: 13 Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7251 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 52):
Yes it is possible. I think what he means is that KE won't be selling through tickets ICN-LAX-GRU. At first you will only be able to buy ICN-LAX and LAX-GRU.
Last time I checked, the 5th freedom rights do not include all the seats of each flight. There is a limit for KE when selling LAX-GRU and GRU-LAX. I'm sure that KE won't start a route, when they are only allowed to sell 50% of the seats.
United Airline From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Jan 2001, 7531 posts, RR: 22 Reply 60, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7241 times:
Wonder if CX and SQ will fly to South/Central America
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4236 posts, RR: 7 Reply 61, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6933 times:
Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21): Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
Yes they do, and no those right are not at all hard to get. There are countless airlines who have them. Virtually every Asian carrier operating to the US via Europe. You can buy a JFK-FRA ticket on SQ for example.
I think it was usually only LHR that was the problem when the Asian carriers wanted to fly from Asia to JFK or wherever through LHR. Any idea if open skies will ease those restrictions?
AFAIK it depends on the agreement between the Asian country and the UK, and the Asian country and the US. And of course LHR slot availability is a big issue
AF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1733 posts, RR: 1 Reply 62, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6920 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 41): Well, it's hard to keep it profitable, when the route needs almost four planes to be flown. When an aircraft leaves NRT on Sunday and only returns on Wednesday, things get difficult.
Especially when the aircraft sits all day on the ground in GRU. JL's aircraft spends about 15 hours on the ground at GRU, a horrible waste of resources.
KE will probably suffer the same fate if it tries to schedule the flight to connect with its flight to/from NRT.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 59 Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6517 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 45): I think the flight has all ingredients to work and I am sure KE did its homework before lauching the route. KE has an excellent onboard product and the winner is Brazil which will have another top carrier landing in GRU.
The flight could work for KE just because the demand for US services is high right now.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 45): In 2007 we had EK GRU-DXB and AC PEK-MAD-GRU.
Allow me to correct, CA service, not AC.
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 52): Yes it is possible. I think what he means is that KE won't be selling through tickets ICN-LAX-GRU
KE is now an american or Brazilian carrier ? How could it use US frequencies ?
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 65, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6507 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 64): The flight could work for KE just because the demand for US services is high right now.
The flight will work because of a number of reasons, inter alia, strong demand for US-Brazil flights; lack of nonstop service between US West Coast and Brazil; another gateway from GRU to ICN allowing for connections to Asia; KE excellent product; another Star Alliance member in GRU (DL, CO, CM, KL, AF, AM, AZ) expanding Sky pax base in Brazil; corporate traffic Brazil-Korea; ICN excellent hub (one of the best in the world).
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 64): Allow me to correct, CA service, not AC.
As a matter of fact, both (AC and CA) operate in GRU!
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 64): 1h turn around at LAX ? Impossible considering immigration, and basic procedures. Need to depart GRU early.
KE could also operate GRU-LAX red-eye, but it would mean missing the strong KE intra-Asia connection bank in ICN. Of course, by contrast, GRU-LAX daylight would certainly undermine yields.
Ktachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 2 Reply 66, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6489 times:
Quoting United Airline (Reply 60): Wonder if CX and SQ will fly to South/Central America
I think ORD would happen for CX before they go to GRU. As for SQ, I clearly don't see the benefit since they try to feed their area as a hub, but won't realistically happen unless pax are coming in from SE Asia or somewhere nearby. Why not transfer at NRT or ICN to Brazil since they are already operating?
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3539 posts, RR: 8 Reply 67, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6473 times:
Quoting AF022 (Reply 62): Especially when the aircraft sits all day on the ground in GRU. JL's aircraft spends about 15 hours on the ground at GRU, a horrible waste of resources.
And how long do BA/AF/LH and just about every other carrier's aircraft, sit on the ground at GRU? AFAIK, TP is the only major foreign carrier that has a quick turn around at GRU.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 68, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6451 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 67): And how long do BA/AF/LH and just about every other carrier's aircraft, sit on the ground at GRU? AFAIK, TP is the only major foreign carrier that has a quick turn around at GRU.
KL also has a quick turn-around in GRU (about 2h only). And you are right, all major carriers seat their plane in GRU for the whole day in order to capture the re-eye yields.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 59 Reply 69, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6435 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 67): And how long do BA/AF/LH and just about every other carrier's aircraft, sit on the ground at GRU? AFAIK, TP is the only major foreign carrier that has a quick turn around at GRU.
AF and IB second flights are with immediate turn-around. Only LH, AZ, AF and IB use to stay on ground for a long time (4 planes). BA in fact runs tags to both GIG and EZE as well as LX to SCL. And all four airlines runs afternoon departures.
Nothing compared to US Airlines (CO, AA, DL and UA) that keep more than 10 planes in Brazil during the entire day for late night departures.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 65): The flight will work because of a number of reasons, inter alia, strong demand for US-Brazil flights; lack of nonstop service between US West Coast and Brazil; another gateway from GRU to ICN allowing for connections to Asia; KE excellent product; another Star Alliance member in GRU (DL, CO, CM, KL, AF, AM, AZ) expanding Sky pax base in Brazil; corporate traffic Brazil-Korea; ICN excellent hub (one of the best in the world).
Agree about the demand for West Coast and US-Brazil flights. As i pointed out above, ICN could be a marvellous hub but i doubt a passenger to China or Asia will accept a connection, immigration at LAX for a longer flight than EK or thru Europe with single connection and easy immigration without the need of a visa.
Corporate traffic Brazil-Korea is not so strong. Will be the third attempt to offer this link, and no one never get a good result, and the investment base does not changed a lot. Both countries are competitors not complimentary economies and there is no financial cooperation, there is no strong government traffic
I believe the flight will perform very well because of the currency level (R$ to US$) which will generate a huge traffic for the São Paulo-Los Angeles leg. Again, i expect that São Paulo-Seoul will be not so strong.
As a side note, i believe you tried to write it's a SkyTeam member, not Star Alliance.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 65): Of course, by contrast, GRU-LAX daylight would certainly undermine yields.
With tha lack of flights to US, even a daylight GRU-LAX will be a winner.
* I still have my doubts whether KE would operate GRU-LAX daylight considering that KE has a strong focus on corporate, high yielding pax.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 69): Agree about the demand for West Coast and US-Brazil flights. As i pointed out above, ICN could be a marvellous hub but i doubt a passenger to China or Asia will accept a connection, immigration at LAX for a longer flight than EK or thru Europe with single connection and easy immigration without the need of a visa.
Lipe, but also take into account that most corporate, government or high yielding pax already have a US visa and wouldnt face problems connecting in LAX.
In addition, KE has a very solid tradition as a top quality airline flying between US and Asia. This explains why KE is the number 1 carrier between Asia and the US. KE operates ICN nonstop flights to JFK, LAX, ATL , SFO, SEA, IAD, ORD, LAS, HNL, ANC and more recently DFW. It has a very well established reputation in the US.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 69): Corporate traffic Brazil-Korea is not so strong. Will be the third attempt to offer this link, and no one never get a good result, and the investment base does not changed a lot. Both countries are competitors not complimentary economies and there is no financial cooperation, there is no strong government traffic
Agreed. However, much has changed since KE dropped GRU about 7 years ago. Brazil and Korea economy are both stronger. And Korean investment in Brazil is not irrelevant.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 69): With tha lack of flights to US, even a daylight GRU-LAX will be a winner.
Again, KE has a tradition of serving high-yielding pax and therefore I would not be surprised if the decide to operate GRU-LAX red-eye. But then we also have to take into account arrival time in ICN and the best arrival bank would be early morning (meaning departing GRU in the morning) which is when KE has plenty of ICN-intra Asia flights.
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3539 posts, RR: 8 Reply 71, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6391 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 70): Agreed. However, much has changed since KE dropped GRU about 7 years ago. Brazil and Korea economy are both stronger. And Korean investment in Brazil is not irrelevant.
Exactly. What's driving this expansion of foreign carriers in Brazil is the strong Brazilian economy. KE is not the only carrier interested in capitalizing on this. Virtually every carrier that currently serves Brazil is increasing service or wishes they could increase service.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 72, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6360 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 71): Exactly. What's driving this expansion of foreign carriers in Brazil is the strong Brazilian economy. KE is not the only carrier interested in capitalizing on this. Virtually every carrier that currently serves Brazil is increasing service or wishes they could increase service.
Correct, but the downfall of RG played a role as foreign carriers quickly tried to fill RG's gap. But you are right that the rebound of the Brazilian economy is an important force. In addition, we have the following aspects: 1) stronger Brazilian currency, as mentioned by Lipe; 2) US carriers are operating at their limit according to Brazil-US bilateral and cannot increase frequencies (except seasonal); 4) not negligible Korean investment in Brazil, as mentioned: Dongkuk, Daewoo, LG, Samsung, SK, Hyundai, Posco. We cannot forget that an air link Brazil-Korea would connect the world's number 9 and 11 economy respectively.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 1592 posts, RR: 5 Reply 73, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6082 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 65): KE excellent product; another Star Alliance member in GRU (DL, SA)">CO, CM, KL, AF, AM, AZ) expanding Sky pax base in Brazil;
The participation of KE will increase the presence of SkyTeam into GRU: Delta, Continental, CM, KL, AF, AM, AZ and KE soon.
However, Star Alliance may take advantage in the future given the imminent huge participation of JJ there. The current services offered by Star Alliance into GRU are supplied by: AC, CA, United, SA, LX, TP and LH.
LH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6017 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 69): AF and IB second flights are with immediate turn-around. Only LH, AZ, AF and IB use to stay on ground for a long time (4 planes). BA in fact runs tags to both GIG and EZE as well as LX to SCL. And all four airlines runs afternoon departures.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 75, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5983 times:
Quoting LH506 (Reply 74): LHs MUC flight also turns around immediately.
As end of May 2008 LH flight MUC-GRU will revert to red-eye operations seating in GRU for 7h:
MUC GRU 21h45 05h15
GRU MUC 12h50 05h30
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 73): The participation of KE will increase the presence of SkyTeam into GRU: Delta, Continental, CM, KL, AF, AM, AZ and KE soon.
SkyTeam member SU already operated in GRU so perhaps they could come back in the future.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 59 Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5942 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 75): As end of May 2008 LH flight MUC-GRU will revert to red-eye operations seating in GRU for 7h:
MUC GRU 21h45 05h15
GRU MUC 12h50 05h30
Which is a terrible schedule for the GRU-MUC. The FRA will be even better with late afternoon. To depart by 12:50 you need to be at the airport by 1050 which means you will use your entire day travelling.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 72): Correct, but the downfall of RG played a role as foreign carriers quickly tried to fill RG's gap
The problem is that, almost all of them tried at the same time.
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 71): Exactly. What's driving this expansion of foreign carriers in Brazil is the strong Brazilian economy. KE is not the only carrier interested in capitalizing on this. Virtually every carrier that currently serves Brazil is increasing service or wishes they could increase service
What is strong is the domestic market. Imports are growing but exports not (only those like iron ore and oil which demands vessels). Which Brazil demands is not to concentrate so much as nowadays, and mostly airlines does not understand this. At least TP understands ! Airlines need to understand the market is changing and ANAC is very clear refusing services and not allowing new services for example at GRU. ANAC has refused Webjet to offer POA-GRU as well as G3 to offer a new GRU-REC-JPA service.
In the other hand JJ is adding NAT-SSA-BSB-MAO domestic service. And guess what... with marvellous yields. Probably with this JJ early morning GIG-BSB-MAO will become GIG-BSB and GIG-MAO independent services.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5904 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 76): Which is a terrible schedule for the GRU-MUC. The FRA will be even better with late afternoon. To depart by 12:50 you need to be at the airport by 1050 which means you will use your entire day travelling.
The early arrival in MUC will be good for connections intra-Europe and long-haul. However, more importantly, the early arrival in GRU is vital as it means a perfect full business day in Sao Paulo or the chance to use GRU hub for connections in South America and Brazil.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 76): Imports are growing but exports not (only those like iron ore and oil which demands vessels).
Domestic demand is fueling Brazilian growth, not exports! The decrease in exports was more than compensated by influx of foreign direct investment - January was a strong month for foreign direct investment again. The current account is going into red, however, the capital account is strongly in the black. For the first time Brazil became a net creditor with the rest of the world this year. Foreign reserves stand at almost USD 200 billion.
Brazil's economy also is a factor driving the expansion of capacity of airlines, no doubt. With or without RG airlines would add capacity.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 76): Which Brazil demands is not to concentrate so much as nowadays, and mostly airlines does not understand this. At least TP understands ! Airlines need to understand the market is changing and ANAC is very clear refusing services and not allowing new services for example at GRU. ANAC has refused Webjet to offer POA-GRU as well as G3 to offer a new GRU-REC-JPA service.
In the other hand JJ is adding NAT-SSA-BSB-MAO domestic service. And guess what... with marvellous yields. Probably with this JJ early morning GIG-BSB-MAO will become GIG-BSB and GIG-MAO independent services.
As long as other routes are profitable airlines will add services to these destinations. TAM increased GRU-SSA to 7 daily frequencies. Airlines fly where they are profitable and make money!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 9405 posts, RR: 7 Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5894 times:
Quoting SRT75 (Reply 28): But as far as GRU-ICN, two observations. First, this flight is going the "wrong" way. A shorter route would be GRU-LHR-ICN (or GRU-Europe-ICN). By going west, the flight adds about 7% to length.
But do they have 5th freedom rights between any of their European destinations and Brazil? And based on other threads, there seems to be overcapacity on Europe-GRU routes now, at least based on all the low fares being offered from Europe.
I believe RG's original service to Japan was GIG-LIM-LAX-HND (later NRT) and was more than once a week. I flew RG LAX-LIM-GIG on a 707 in the mid 1970s. The flight originated Tokyo and if memory correct was 3 per week then.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 51): Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 32):
KE will join BA, EK, MH and SA in being the only airlines flying to all continents (except Antarctica ofcourse!).
KE still does not fly to Africa.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 57): Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 56):
has KE dropped Cairo ? last time I checked that was on the African continent
You are right, although some would argue! Just kidding. CAI is served by KE but included in KE world map as a Middle Eastern destination.
Didn't KE also serve Libya (Tripoli) at one time? I vaguely recall KE operating the DC-10-30 to TIP. There were a couple of other intermediate stops.
Kiwiandrew From Mauritius, joined Jun 2005, 4797 posts, RR: 15 Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5889 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78): Didn't KE also serve Libya (Tripoli) at one time? I vaguely recall KE operating the DC-10-30 to TIP. There were a couple of other intermediate stops.
correct , in fact they actually crashed one there back in 1989 - I believe it had enroute stops at BKK and JED on the way
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosevelt
HALFA From United States, joined Jan 2004, 1070 posts, RR: 16 Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5892 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 77): , the capital account is strongly in the black. For the first time Brazil became a net creditor with the rest of the world this year. Foreign reserves stand at almost USD 200 billion.
Yes, and today, the Brazilian Real is trading at a 5 year high against the US Dollar. 1 BRL = .5993 US cents or reverse 1 USD = 1.6665 BRL.
It's really unbelievable. Just a few years ago, 1 USD = 3.66 BRL.
My glass of SKOL is getting more and more expensive each day!
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5875 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78): But do they have 5th freedom rights between any of their European destinations and Brazil?
No! And RG at some time struggled to negotiate 5th freedom rights to NRT via Europe. But currently we have CA PEK-MAD-GRU with 5th freedom rights.
As a matter of fact, CA and EK introduced new services to GRU in 2007 opening two new gateways from GRU: PEK and DXB. EK will increase its 6 x week service to daily in June.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 78): Didn't KE also serve Libya (Tripoli) at one time? I vaguely recall KE operating the DC-10-30 to TIP. There were a couple of other intermediate stops.
KE had to drop many routes back during the Asian financial crisis.
Quoting HALFA (Reply 80): My glass of SKOL is getting more and more expensive each day!
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 59 Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5694 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 77): The early arrival in MUC will be good for connections intra-Europe and long-haul
Do not change the situation that demands a very early departure from Brazil. The same South American network gets a problem to connect this early flight.
Quoting HALFA (Reply 80): My glass of SKOL is getting more and more expensive each day!
Not only the glass of SKOL but also the Caipirinhas and the Rodizio !
Have a nice trip to GIG ! My next trip to GIG will be only in the end of March.
Hardiwv From Netherlands, joined Oct 2004, 6991 posts, RR: 55 Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5578 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 69): a passenger to China or Asia will accept a connection, immigration at LAX for a longer flight than EK or thru Europe with single connection and easy immigration without the need of a visa.
Another interesting feature of KE is that it will provide GRU with a gateway through ICN hub to a number of secondary destinations in China and elsewhere in Asia. While European carriers only serve a number of major destinations in China, KE will offer under one single ticket and carrier connections to 24 Chinese destinations nonstop from ICN. It will certainly open a new gateway to Asia from GRU. In contrast, LH/KL offer connections to only 5 destinations in China.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 83): Do not change the situation that demands a very early departure from Brazil. The same South American network gets a problem to connect this early flight.
I agree, Lipe. However, as I said, the early arrival in GRU is a major benefit which will drive yields upwards. Currently the MUC-GRU
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