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B727 Built Like A Tank?  
User currently offlineB767 From Norway, joined Feb 2008, 127 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14886 times:

There have been some topics here on a.net about the Boeing 727.I have readen several places that this plane was built like a tank,and was extremly robust.My question is Big grinoesn,t it share the same fuselage structure as the 737 and 757(The 757 have a different nose off course).Many of them nearly 40 years old are still working as cargo planes,The neighbour of one of my relatives in Seatle was a 727 pilot for United.He said the airplane was difficult to make a kisser landing with,but a safe landing was "just hitting the runway one way or another"The most rock solid thing he have ever flown.I have also heard about one escape manouver where it pulled around 6g,s.So what is the difference compared to other Boeings?

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 407 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14880 times:



Quoting B767 (Thread starter):
I have also heard about one escape manouver where it pulled around 6g,s.

That would have been in error I believe. And yes, in my opinion, it was pretty much built like a tank. "Kissers" were certainly not out of the question, but they came with a lot of "Blahs" in between. With the -15 and -17 engines, it was very nicely powered. With the -7s and -9s, just so so. All in all, it was/is a very versatile aircraft.


User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14824 times:

Add to that the fact that the engines were in the back of the aircraft and the wing/belly were pretty aerodynamically "clean" (no engine pods to produce drag), the 727 is extremely versatile, especially with the -15 and -17 engines.

As for it being a tank, the fact that it was clean on the belly made it possible to land on anything and maintain a higher degree of structural integrity. Aircraft with engine pods under the wings tend to snap off (either the wing or engines) when they impact the ground. The lack of that on the 727 made the aircraft actually far more likely to withstand a controlled landing into terrain (other than a runway)...especially on water.

If I remember my history, there were a couple of 727 that ditched (one in SF bay many years ago) and because it came in short with its gear up, it just skipped on the water and ended up on the sandbar in the middle of the bay...with very little damage. I don't think a 737 or an A320 ending up in the same situation would have faired as well....the engines would have ripped off taking a part of the wing with it and who knows what would have happened in that scenario.

So 727 = tank. Yep, I'll agree with that assessment.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14645 times:

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 2):
If I remember my history, there were a couple of 727 that ditched (one in SF bay many years ago)

This is the one I found. Unfortunately, it's before we got detailed reports. I'll still be looking around.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=9301&key=0

Here's a little more:

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...reg=N7434U&airline=United+Airlines

M

[Edited 2008-02-25 14:02:28]

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9179 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14653 times:



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 2):
If I remember my history, there were a couple of 727 that ditched (one in SF bay many years ago) and because it came in short with its gear up, it just skipped on the water and ended up on the sandbar in the middle of the bay...with very little damage.



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 2):
So 727 = tank. Yep, I'll agree with that assessment.

I would have to agree. Of course, equip it with a machine gun and heavy artilary, and it DEFINITELY it would be built like a tank!  Wink



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3522 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14463 times:

I don't know about the 727, but ...


"Who do you think you're talking to!? Some kid who fixes bicycles? I know every inch of the 707; if you take the wings off this airplane you can use it as a tank! This plane was built to withstand anything, except a BAD PILOT!"

100 points for anyone who can name the speaker...



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14428 times:



Quoting BAW716 (Reply 2):
If I remember my history, there were a couple of 727 that ditched (one in SF bay many years ago) and because it came in short with its gear up, it just skipped on the water and ended up on the sandbar in the middle of the bay...

Or you may be referring to the National 193 on May 8, 1978, that was planning to land PNS and ended up in Escambia Bay on the sandbar!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_193



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14419 times:

Joe Patroni...fabled TWA Chief pottrayed by George Kennedy

User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14348 times:

The older planes were built in an era when fuel economy wasn't an issue. The reason there are so many 727's still flying for so many cargo airlines, FedEx being just one tells you something. The fuselage is well built. The wing mountain engines trap water and can cause the airliner to flip or cartwheel. The video of the 767 that ditched off the beach where an astounding number of people survived is one example. A smooth belly and wings farther back help make the structure more boatlike and able to belly land better. The slower you hit the water the better and I don't know about stall speed for the aircraft. I remember having this conversation with a pilot and he told me the surface tension on water is the same as hitting concrete if you do it wrong. I have since heard that "concrete" phrase a number of times so it must originate somewhere.

User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14322 times:

They even equipped some 727 with rockets, so Tanks have rockets too?  Smile I am referring to those JATO options that some airlines tried in the fuel crisis in the 70s, such as Mexicana


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14290 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
The fuselage is well built. The wing mountain engines trap water and can cause the airliner to flip or cartwheel. The video of the 767 that ditched off the beach where an astounding number of people survived is one example

I saw on tv where the engine caught a piece of coral or rock that was just below the surface of the water that caused it cart-wheel. The show said had the engine not caught not hit that, the plane would have probably survived the landing.

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
I remember having this conversation with a pilot and he told me the surface tension on water is the same as hitting concrete if you do it wrong. I have since heard that "concrete" phrase a number of times so it must originate somewhere.

You ever notice the difference between when you belly-flop into the pull versus a nice smooth dive?

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
"Who do you think you're talking to!? Some kid who fixes bicycles? I know every inch of the 707; if you take the wings off this airplane you can use it as a tank! This plane was built to withstand anything, except a BAD PILOT!"

Just a guess- is that from the original Airport?


Quoting BAW716 (Reply 2):
I don't think a 737 or an A320 ending up in the same situation would have faired as well....the engines would have ripped off taking a part of the wing with it and who knows what would have happened in that scenario.

I thought the more modern birds are designed so in a water landing, the wing mounted engines rip off when they hit the water so that they don't catch water and take the wing and then rest of the plane with it when they go cartwheeling.

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
The older planes were built in an era when fuel economy wasn't an issue. The reason there are so many 727's still flying for so many cargo airlines, FedEx being just one tells you something. The fuselage is well built.

That's part of it I'm sure. Also, older planes are cheaper to buy. Since cargo birds generally only operate a couple flights a day, the difference in operating costs between an old and new bird for those two flights doesn't justify buying brand new, but cheaper to operate aircraft.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13510 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14237 times:
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Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
"Who do you think you're talking to!? Some kid who fixes bicycles? I know every inch of the 707; if you take the wings off this airplane you can use it as a tank! This plane was built to withstand anything, except a BAD PILOT!"

100 points for anyone who can name the speaker...




More like negative 100 points for those who CAN'T name him...


FWIW, I've heard pilots who flew the B-727 say it handles like a Cessna 172; very agile and responsive to control inputs.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9179 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14150 times:



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
"Who do you think you're talking to!? Some kid who fixes bicycles? I know every inch of the 707; if you take the wings off this airplane you can use it as a tank! This plane was built to withstand anything, except a BAD PILOT!"

100 points for anyone who can name the speaker...

Ah yes, from the origional "Airport" motion picture film from 1970. Excellent aviation flick!  Smile

I guess it would be safe to say that most of those planes from the '50s, '60s and '70s were built like tanks? What about the earlier 737s? Although, I don't think those could handle a water landing either...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day ago) and read 14048 times:

The 707/720, 727, 737, and 757 all share the same upper fuselage cross-section. The 707 had the largest of the lower fuselage cross section.

With the recent incident/accident of the Lloyd Aereo Boliviano 727 in Bolivia, you can see that it's a pretty rugged plane to stay together in the controlled crash landing LB B727-200 CP 2429 Accident At TDD (by 123 Feb 1 2008 in Civil Aviation)

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...DcmBPWQcm2-gCwzI4mrVmfWTAD8UHRIJ80
(link from the LB thread)

It's too bad a modern version of the 727 couldn't have been designed economically.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 23 hours ago) and read 13885 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 13):

With the recent incident/accident of the Lloyd Aereo Boliviano 727 in Bolivia, you can see that it's a pretty rugged plane to stay together in the controlled crash landing

Of course, that was really impressive.

Let's also remember the 727 is dirt runway capable.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 13623 times:

I remember reading somewhere that the Ethiopian 767 might have survived the water landing intact, but at the last second one of the hijackers pushed the wheel to the left, forcing the left wing to hit the water first, causing the cartwheel. Further, many of the passengers inflated their life jackets too soon in panic, leading to further casualties.

Anyway, the only false claim anyone ever made about a 727 was Eastern Airlines - calling it a "WhisperJet". Puh-LEEZE!! But as for durable, well, consider how long the majors kept them in service - up to 2003. Pretty impressive for an airplane that was last produced in 1984...

  • High-lift technology wings we take for granted now originated on the 727 to ensure Eastern's could get off LGA's shortest runway fully loaded and fly non-stop to Florida, as well as ensuring United's DEN operations would not be hindered in "hot and high" conditions.

  • The very swept wings (I believe a sweep of 37.5 degrees - please correct me if that's incorrect) allowed the plane to scare a few military installations when it first arrived - an unfamiliar type flying faster than any known commercial aircraft of the time? None were in any danger...just a few "what the hell is that" comments, I'm sure...

  • 727's also had a take-off angle that could exceed 18 degrees - higher than virtually any other commercial aircraft of the time.

    One helluva plane!!



  • Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
    User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 13602 times:



    Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
    High-lift technology wings we take for granted now originated on the 727 to ensure Eastern's could get off LGA's shortest runway fully loaded and fly non-stop to Florida, as well as ensuring United's DEN operations would not be hindered in "hot and high" conditions.

    That's where the three engines on the 727 comes from too- a compromise. If I remember correctly, Eastern wanted 2 engines to be able to operate economically from LGA to Florida while United wanted 4 to better operate in the "hot and high" conditions of DEN so Boeing compromised and made the tri-holer we love and miss today. The book I would use to reference this is at home otherwise I'd check to make sure I don't have it backwards.

    Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
    I remember reading somewhere that the Ethiopian 767 might have survived the water landing intact, but at the last second one of the hijackers pushed the wheel to the left, forcing the left wing to hit the water first, causing the cartwheel.

    As I stated in Reply 10, the tv show I saw said the engine caught a piece or rock or coral that was just below the surface of the water. If anyone who wants to confirm or disprove that, please feel free.
    And you are correct- one of the problems leading to casaulties was passengers inflating their lifejackets inside the cabin and then not being able to escape.


    User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3579 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 13590 times:

    An old, retired captain of the 732 and 727 once told me repeatedly:

    "The 727 was known as the lead sled for a reason; throw a crowbar out the window and the plane would follow it"



    I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
    User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2326 posts, RR: 7
    Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 13510 times:

    Like the old Douglas aircraft of the era, such as the DC-9, the 727 was over built by todays standards with thicker sheet metal. This added to the durability of the airframe. What is the number of cycles it is certified for, 75k? Todays replacements are 50k.

    Quoting B767 (Thread starter):
    I have also heard about one escape maneuver where it pulled around 6g,s.So what is the difference compared to other Boeings?

    You are probably thinking of the TW 727-23 incident over Saginaw, MI in 1979. Truly one of the biggest miracles in recovering from a dive in airline history. During cruise at 39,000 ft, the No.7 slat on the starboard wing jammed, which caused the aircraft to roll over on its back and become inverted instantly. The slat detached from the wing from the extreme forces allowing the pilots to recover the aircraft at an altitude of 5,000 ft, some 63 seconds later! Can you imagine a 35,000 ft/min decent???  wideeyed 

    The incident is not that well known; I suggest checking out the NTSB report. It's an interesting read, to say the least. Goes to show the durability of the airframe, under the most excruciating circumstances. Would make a great episode for "Air Emergency" on National Geographic.  scratchchin 

    http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR81-08.pdf


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    Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.




    There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
    User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
    Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 13496 times:



    Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
    As I stated in Reply 10, the tv show I saw said the engine caught a piece or rock or coral that was just below the surface of the water. If anyone who wants to confirm or disprove that, please feel free

    I'll confirm that, because I've seen the same show. The show is "Shockwave", on the History Channel.
    One probably has a very good chance seeing that episode again, since it's still being played now & again.

    One thing about the 727's history that stands out in my mind was a World Airways 721 was evacuating
    refugees in Da Nang during the withdrawal of US troops. This particular aircraft had 105 seats, but was
    estimated to have been carrying 360 people aboard during a very chaotic take-off. The pilot thinks his
    bird was over-loaded by 10 tons, but he still got the aircraft off the ground, away from the advancing
    enemy. He flew below 10,000 feet because there were people in the aft stairways & the open cargo holds
    just hanging for dear life.
    The 727 he said..."is a solid, dependable and completely honest aircraft." --Capt Ed Healy.

    Regards.



    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
    User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13510 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 13425 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



    Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
    Anyway, the only false claim anyone ever made about a 727 was Eastern Airlines - calling it a "WhisperJet". Puh-LEEZE!!

    At the time it was introduced, it WAS the quietest jet aircraft in commercial service. Keep that in mind.



    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
    User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5404 posts, RR: 30
    Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 13291 times:

    The 727 is the most beautiful jet airliner of all time. Absolutely gorgeous. If you think it's noisy under normal conditions, you should have heard it at -30c or colder. I grew up far in Canada's arctic and we had 737s and 727's on a daily basis.

    Most of the PWA birds were combis. Mere passengers had to share the plane with fresh food and other cargo. The planes also had the gravel deflectors.

    Tough...? There aren't to many passenger jets around now that can regularly fly off of gravel runways.

    The airport was 8 miles away and on a really cold day, you could hear those babies taking off as if you were standing on the end of the runway. Beautiful.



    What the...?
    User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 653 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

    I LOVE the 727, it's just a brilliant piece of engineering. Wonderful airplane and its performance specs are still relativelly competitive as far as cruise altitude and speed are concerned. Well, fuel economy of course, is a whole other problem.

    Quoting Malaysia (Reply 9):
    I am referring to those JATO options that some airlines tried in the fuel crisis in the 70s, such as Mexicana

    Never heard about that, could you give us a bit more info ?



    Cheers
    User currently offlineRevo1059 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 11 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

    Quote:
    If I remember my history, there were a couple of 727 that ditched (one in SF bay many years ago)

    That was a JAL DC8. Landed in the bay. They fixed it and it flew for many years.

    http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...truecount=false&engine_version=6.0

    http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=9292&key=0

    [Edited 2008-02-26 06:02:21]

    User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2870 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 10353 times:



    Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 17):
    The incident is not that well known; I suggest checking out the NTSB report. It's an interesting read, to say the least. Goes to show the durability of the airframe, under the most excruciating circumstances. Would make a great episode for "Air Emergency" on National Geographic. scratchchin

    http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR81-08.pdf

    It says that after coming out of the dive, the plane initially climbed with a 30-50 degree nose-up angle...



    I scratch my head, therefore I am.
    25 Highflier92660 : Much of the 727's credit had to go to that 108' triple-slotted wing. Eastern Airlines went into such airports as 4,800 ft. Key West and St. Thomas whe
    26 BeechNut : Sorry much as I like the 727, the title of "most beautiful" still has to be the Concorde IMHO. Beech
    27 Post contains images 727forever : She is fast. In B mode Vmo is 350 and Mmo is mach .88. A mode is over 400 knots and mach .92. The only limit for the -200 is when she's too heavy or
    28 Jcf5002 : What exactly is "A-Mode"? M.92 is very impressive. I've always maintained that the 727 is the prettiest airliner out there next to Concorde. My buddy
    29 727forever : The airspeed indicator had two modes, A and B that would switch the max operating speed. B mode was the normal operation but if you needed to go fast
    30 Post contains images Jcf5002 : Thanks for the clarification... and somehow I knew you were already a fan of the bird. Not sure what gave it away though...
    31 Post contains images KELPkid : Whoever said that needs to try out a Grumman AA-5 series aircraft or an Extra! Cessnas are great utility planes, but I definitely wouldn't call the 1
    32 Hsw3rd : She was built as a tank. Fantastic cold weather ops (FAI, 45 degrees below zero on the ramp). Landings were a challenge for some pilots; the trick to
    33 ClassicLover : Great post - never had any idea about this. Enjoyed the explanation about the -200Adv as well - I'd always wondered what the improvements were over t
    34 Rwy04LGA : Joe Patroni. TWA allowed use of FA cabin service training interiors for the shoot. In return, the TWA brand is everywhere in that movie, especially o
    35 Post contains images AndrewUber : I have spent a LOT of hours in the 727, and I can concur - it is built like a tank. One of our birds got scrapped in Fort Wayne in 2006, and it was pa
    36 MD11Engineer : I consider myself to be lucky still having worked on them, a nice bird to work, except for changing brakes. Jan
    37 OldAeroGuy : A bit heavier on the controls than a 172. More like a 182 in pitch. Roll has much heavier than either of the Cessnas.
    38 Post contains images ClassicLover : Can't disagree with you there! But back to the 727...
    39 Post contains images Blue_Angel : Once a TWA 727 survived a high speed stall due to an assymetrical slat deployment at cruise level which implied an high speed dive (at mach 1.1, more
    40 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : The only aircraft I can recall that landed in SF Bay with little damage was a JL DC-8, and its gear was down. It was repaired by UA and was back in s
    41 Post contains links and images Dispatchguy : Yeah The B727 is built like a tank. Check out this YouTube Video of a 727 off a dirt strip somewhere in Africa... Looks like I need to go Jumpseat som
    42 Post contains images AndrewUber : Forgot to mention another one of our birds at Kitty Hawk had a history with NW (N278US): This is the aircraft in question: Here's the DC9 it hit:
    43 FXRA : My first dispatch job we had a couple of the -200's with -217/-15 intermixed engines. -217's for 1 and 3. Those things were like rockets on climb out
    44 FlagshipAZ : Regarding inter-mixed engines on the 727...I often wondered once the aircraft achieves cruising altitude, does the flight crew idle back the number 2
    45 Post contains links and images MD-90 : You learn something new every day.
    46 Post contains links Viscount724 : But were they ever used in actual MX service with passengers aboard? That's what I was referring to where I said I didn't think it was ever used -- m
    47 Post contains links Revo1059 : Here is a lillte something more on JATO and Mexicana. Possibly WAS used in high/hot situations...... http://www.airliners.net/photo/DHL-(Swiftair)/DHL
    48 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Yes, before leveling off at 13,000 ft. Like I said, would make a great "Air Emergency" episode... I tend to believe Mr. Gibson, as the aircraft in qu
    49 B767 : But the question regarding the robustness is.Even if it has the same cross-section as the 737 and 757,did it have thikher skin or more springers?I ass
    50 Tdscanuck : I'm guessing you mean "stringers", not "springers". I don't believe the actual number of stringers changed too much but the gauge (and possibly profi
    51 B767 : Yeah, stringers off course ha ha.Happens all the time,when I am in a hurry.
    52 57AZ : Not only that, but the plane ran off the taxiway during the takeoff run-hitting a truck and a fence in the process. Also, when they landed in Saigon,
    53 Post contains images Tb727 : I love reading these threads on the 727! She may be old but I have my fingers crossed that they might move me over to the 727-200 in the next year or
    54 Max Q : 727 Handled better than any Cessna ! The wing was remarkable, capable of flying as slow as 180 kts clean at light weight and close to 400 kts indicate
    55 BeechNut : Or my plane, an aerobatic Beech Sundowner; much quicker ailerons, and much lighter and better balanced controls than a 172, overall a delight to fly
    56 Post contains images Charlienorth : sometimes led to a 757 brake is a dream after doing a few '72's...otherwise a great airplane that was built like a tank...some of the components were
    57 Viscount724 : Actually I had read your reply but didn't click your link. Didn't realize it was the same document due to the different URL.
    58 Acabgd : She did fly smoothly - check it out
    59 MD-90 : Ah, I was thinking you weren't sure if a JATO takeoff had ever been made. As to whether they were actually ever used with paying passengers onboard I
    60 OldAeroGuy : Note the addition of the left hand to the yoke when turning base, about 3:10 in the video.
    61 MadViking : It was also a controllers best friend. An experienced ATC once told me ,"you could do anything to a 727 except make it land upside-down." Very versati
    62 EA772LR : Seeing as though the 727 (-100/-200/-200adv/excluding Super27) had a fairly low thrust-to-weight ratio, it must have had a kick ass wing to achieve th
    63 Post contains images B727-200 : Long Live the magic 3-holer....the dragster of the skies. Beautiful lines, and makes all the right sounds (roars like hell from the outside, quiet as
    64 AM744 : Mexicana used those to help early 727 take off at MEX hot and high conditions, rather than as a fuel saving measure, if I'm understanding you correct
    65 Tdscanuck : More of a kick ass flap system. The wing is good, especially since it doesn't have nacelles/struts messing it up, but it's nothing completely amazing
    66 Joecanuck : Ok...first good chortle of the day...thanks.
    67 Prebennorholm : Those JATO bottles were only to be used in case of an engine shut down after V1 speed - at hot and high conditions. That way they helped the 727 to g
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