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AirOne Applies For U.S. Flights.  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5483 times:

Rumours previously mentioned on these boards by another fourum member were true, and AirOne has applied to fly to the United States. According to what I've heard (and now partly supported by the application), plans are to fly to Chicago O'Hare and Boston this summer (mentioned in the application), tenatively planning to fly to Miami by next winter, and Washington/Dulles or Toronto by summer 2009.

They have two A330s right now, with two more coming, which would perfectly allow four daily trans-Atlantics if that's what they choose to do.

Boston over Washington, a Star hub, surprises me, because Boston-Milan is a small market, although Boston-Italy in general is a huge market. However, AirOne currently does not fly to Malpensa at all, and won't until next month, so there won't be much feed on either end.

That being said, they are running on a tight time frame, and getting approval in time to start these services with enough marketing and ticket sales for the summer is stretching it. They do not need route approval, but they do need to be certified to fly to the U.S., which will not be a quick process for an airline with no long-haul flying experience.

They have asked for "rushed" approval of their foreign carrier permit. However, DOT is not very keen to rushing such a process (unlike rushing route authorities, when requested). The fact they have a good safety record and come from a modern nation will help them get approval quicker than others, but the fact that they don't fly long-haul will add to the time it takes. They can't sell tickets until they get approval, and the busiest window for booking summer tickets - especially to markets like Italy - is right now. It's almost certain they won't get approval in time for that mad rush.

[Edited 2008-02-26 19:47:08]


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

IIRC, someone had mentioned earlier that they had wanted to fly to JFK. I guess they will stay away from the busy NYC-Italy market.


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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5380 times:

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 1):
IIRC, someone had mentioned earlier that they had wanted to fly to JFK. I guess they will stay away from the busy NYC-Italy market.

Which is smart. Alitalia will be 3x daily to JFK, not to mention the mutiple daily flights on American, Continental, and Delta.

[Edited 2008-02-26 20:25:24]


a.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5026 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Boston over Washington, a Star hub, surprises me, because Boston-Milan is a small market, although Boston-Italy in general is a huge market. However, AirOne currently does not fly to Malpensa at all, and won't until next month, so there won't be much feed on either end.

Air One, does, of course, codeshare with US Airways, so there will be *some* feed at BOS.



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User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

there could well be some strategic intentions for serving BOS as well. AZ serves it but has unsuccessfully tried to rework its schedule; perhaps they are vulnerable.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4727 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 3):
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Boston over Washington, a Star hub, surprises me, because Boston-Milan is a small market, although Boston-Italy in general is a huge market. However, AirOne currently does not fly to Malpensa at all, and won't until next month, so there won't be much feed on either end.

Air One, does, of course, codeshare with US Airways, so there will be *some* feed at BOS.

According to airline route news, the only onward flights AP will codeshare on are DCA, PHX and PHL. I assume they will have a more extensive interline deal though covering other destinations http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/200...applies-bostonchicago-service.html



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User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4532 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):
According to airline route news, the only onward flights AP will codeshare on are DCA, PHX and PHL. I assume they will have a more extensive interline deal though covering other destinations

I wouldn't be surprised. US could connect passengers to places all over New England as well. B6 has a hublet in BOS and LH recently bought a stake in them. Maybe they will codeshare?

BOS-Italy is a good market in the summer but not in the winter. There are a lot of Sicilians in BOS, but AP doesn't appear to be offering any connections there. AZ struggled with BOS-MXP.

So far nobody mentioned ORD's flights. I think this will give AZ a run for their money, although connections are limited in MXP.



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User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

I knew that someone would pick this route up but AirOne was a surprise! AZ has in fact struggled with BOS some years it made a profit others it didn't it was hit or miss. Personally i would love to see them at BOS but i dont think it will last long

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4347 times:



Quoting Rcardinale (Reply 7):
AZ has in fact struggled with BOS some years it made a profit others it didn't it was hit or miss.

The Milan route never made a profit for the past eight years or so, although Rome does very well, and even though it ran only half the year, it essentially kept the Boston station surviving. Alitalia doesn't even offer a real business class product like on the JFK/EWR/MIA routes. They use their outdated Coral Class product. The switch to the Rome hub will likely turn around Alitalia's poor performance at Logan (and O'Hare), IMO.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 6):
although connections are limited in MXP.

Very limited. AirOne doesn't have a hub at Malpensa and currently does not even fly there at all.

I doubt how they are going to do very well launching any of these routes - BOS, IAD, MIA, YYZ, or IAD - without strong feed on at least the Italy end.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 6):
B6 has a hublet in BOS and LH recently bought a stake in them. Maybe they will codeshare?

No, absolutely not. This talk about B6/LH cooperating really has to end. They won't anytime soon. Never say never, of course, but it's clearly just an investment by B6, and not future cooperation. And yes, I know, they might hint it at it, but so what? That hint can send stock prices up a buck, and make LH more money.



a.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

I'm going to have to disagree that there will be no cooperating. I don't think LH spent money on B6 just cause. They could get access to JFK, but what are they going to do there? There isn't much feed onto *A carriers there, unlike LHR where BMI is. LH has to get something out of the deal, otherwise what's the point. And I think AP could use the feed at BOS because they are going to have trouble during the winter (however MXP is close to the Swiss Alps, maybe they will advertise that for skiing?). I don't know why the US codeshare will initially cover just PHL, DCA, and PHX but it should be interesting.


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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4025 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
I don't think LH spent money on B6 just cause.



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
LH has to get something out of the deal, otherwise what's the point.

The Euro is strong and the dollar is weak. It's a great financial investment. The point is to invest money and get money back in return, not to codeshare.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
And I think AP could use the feed at BOS because they are going to have trouble during the winter

I have a feeling that Boston will be summer-only. During the winter they are looking at flying to Miami, as well as some Caribbean islands like Barbados.

They won't be able to even get 100 people during the winter on those flights. Alitalia struggles as is during the winter in BOS - the flight is popularly known as taking the typical 10-15 oversold passengers from the Miami flight.



a.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

Would UA codeshare with Air One on the ORD flight? I thought UA should have started ORD-Italy so I am bummed to see Air One do what UA should have years ago.

I am curious to hear what people think about how they will market to and attract US passengers. AFAIK Air One is not very well known in the US. Plus, I think there name sounds very generic. I flew them in 2001 and thought they were good; seemed just like LH. Would Italian-Americans be very familiar with them?


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3879 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
And I think AP could use the feed at BOS because they are going to have trouble during the winter

I have a feeling that Boston will be summer-only. During the winter they are looking at flying to Miami, as well as some Caribbean islands like Barbados.

They won't be able to even get 100 people during the winter on those flights. Alitalia struggles as is during the winter in BOS - the flight is popularly known as taking the typical 10-15 oversold passengers from the Miami flight.

Popular to whom? Yourself? And how do those 10-15 passengers get up to BOS from MIA? Does AZ pay for them to fly AA and the connect? Seems like quite a pain if true. They may struggle as you claim, but still manage to run the flights so it must not be that bad for AZ.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 12):
And how do those 10-15 passengers get up to BOS from MIA? Does AZ pay for them to fly AA and the connect? Seems like quite a pain if true.

Correct, they connect to AA, and it is a pain. Alitalia takes care of everything - passengers aren't charged for having to make a connection. When Alitalia's Miami flights are frequently oversold and averaged a perfect 100% loadfactor in December, it happens often. It's the biggest pain for Alitalia's MIA agents. At least Italy-originating passengers can be easily accomodated on other Alitalia flights that day. If an MIA-MXP flight is oversold, not much luck getting passengers on an AA flight to BOS to connect.

Ma dei voli ai quali la compagnia ha deciso di rinunciare non tutti erano in perdita come invece affermato dal piano Prato: ad esempio il Miami, che sarà abbandonato dal 1 aprile, faceva registrare percentuali di riempimento pari a quasi il 100 per cento, andando anche in overbooking più volte lasciando a terra parecchi passeggeri riprogrammati su altri voli per gli Stati Uniti via New York, Chicago o Boston.
http://www3.varesenews.it/gallarate_malpensa/articolo.php?id=90905

(Basic translation)
But of all the flights that Alitalia is ending from Malpensa, not all of them have been poor performing: for example, Miami, which ends 1 April, registers a nearly 100% load factor. Overbooking on the route is extremely common, with passengers having to be re-booked onto other flights to the U.S."

Quoting B752OS (Reply 12):
They may struggle as you claim, but still manage to run the flights so it must not be that bad for AZ.

Not may. They do, hence the lack of a true premium product on the Boston flights. Obviously the route holds it's own, as do Chicago and Toronto, but none of the three are profitable. I think the switch to Rome will be a great turn around for these three stations. The problem for these stations has largely been the fact that the flight went to Milan.

[Edited 2008-02-28 17:52:51]

[Edited 2008-02-28 17:55:30]


a.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3771 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Not may. They do, hence the lack of a true premium product on the Boston flights. Obviously the route holds it's own, as do Chicago and Toronto, but none of the three are profitable. I think the switch to Rome will be a great turn around for these three stations. The problem for these stations has largely been the fact that the flight went to Milan.

Exactly. BOS-MXP did poorly in the wintertime, but it made up for it in the summertime. More passengers are probably going to FCO so that is why AZ made the switch. I'm sure both BOS-MXP and ORD-MXP will do fine in the summer, but it is going to be tough after September. Good luck to them. AP is also very unknown here, and I only know them because I went to Sicily last summer and when planning the trip looked to see who flew into CTA. So I have a good idea where many airlines in Italy fly. Also, why couldn't they have gone to LIN where they have a hub? Then they would have better connections and not the BA-in-London-esqe switcheroo in Milan.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3746 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 14):
I'm sure both BOS-MXP and ORD-MXP will do fine in the summer, but it is going to be tough after September.

They don't do fine outside of absolute peak June/July/August. The Boston and Chicago stations as a whole don't make money. Thanks to the revenue the Rome flight brings in, Boston's losses aren't substantial. The BOS-FCO flight does really well, which is why with Rome going year-round and Milan ending, AZ's Boston station might be on track (in my opinion very likely will be) to be profitable for the first time in eight years.



a.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3711 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Obviously the route holds it's own, as do Chicago and Toronto, but none of the three are profitable.

sorry , but if they are not profitable I dont see how you can say that they hold their own .



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User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3504 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
The problem for these stations has largely been the fact that the flight went to Milan.

...interesting.

I could understand a single station being an outlyer, but this seems to go against the common grain of thought throughout the aviation-enthusiast world that the heart of Italy's intercon market/yield lies in Milan instead of Rome. Would you say that (in the same vein as the likes of "commonality") is unduly overblown?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3404 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 17):

I could understand a single station being an outlyer, but this seems to go against the common grain of thought throughout the aviation-enthusiast world that the heart of Italy's intercon market/yield lies in Milan instead of Rome. Would you say that (in the same vein as the likes of "commonality") is unduly overblown?

I think the problem is that, with Italy, the bulk traffic goes to Rome and the high-yield (but minority of traffic) goes to Milan. It's a split that doesn't help at all. Considering Alitalia's overall weak connection opportunities via MXP, it's a small number of markets with strong ties to northern Italy industries (NYC, Sao Paulo, Tokyo, Miami, etc.) that have been strong performers for AZ from Milan. It will be interesting to see how some of these markets start doing from Rome, especially Miami and Buenos Aires, whose ties to Milan are far stronger than to Rome, yet they are losing Milan flights (at least for the summer - there is already talk that AZ will start MIA/EZE-MXP next winter).

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):

sorry , but if they are not profitable I dont see how you can say that they hold their own .

Literally taken, I see what you are saying. Nonetheless, no airline has a network with every route turning a profit. Certain routes, even if they lose money, can be important parts of an airline's network. About three years ago, for example, Air France made no money flying to Houston within itself. However, Houston held its own, because the premium revenue it brought to connecting African destinations was very important. There is no doubting a route like Boston, even if it loses money, is a key part of Alitalia's network.



a.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

AirOne's proposed schedule is as follows

6x weekly X Weds
MXP-ORD 1200-1455
ORD-MXP 1655-0835+1

5x weekly X Tue/Thu
MXP-BOS 1105-1400
BOS-MXP 1610-0540+1



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User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Does anyone know what the business class product is like on their 332's?

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3136 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 11):
I thought UA should have started ORD-Italy so I am bummed to see Air One do what UA should have years ago.

IAD-FCO has done rather well, esp. during the summer months. ORD-FCO is on the horizon, but UA still lacks a WB fleet that allows for any growth, w/out chopping another rte.
ORD-GRU perhaps (or another low yielding S.American route)?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Surprisingly fast action from the DOT, they have awarded Air One its foreign air carrier certificate along with authority to conduct air transportation between the US and Italy effective March 30th, 2008.

Lets keep our eyes out for the official route launch press releases.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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