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Why No More Premium Economy? And Why So Difficult?  
User currently offlineEUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11642 times:

Hello to all,

I have just got back from Dubai after having used BA's Premium Economy service for the first time. All I can say is that I am extremely satisfied with what it offers (price-service ratio) and intend to use it as much as I can in the future. But what most surprises me is the following:

- Apparently Eva Air started offering this product many years ago but did not succeed.
- Only a few airlines have it nowadays. I believe SAS, JAL only recently, Virgin Atlantic and not many others.
- It is not offered on any of the travel sites on the net i.e. Last Minute, Edreams, etc.
- What is worst, BA's Premium Economy service is not even offered when booking on another oneworld airline. For instance, I fly out of Madrid -no direct flight to DXB- and will usually try to purchase a codeshared ticket over the IB website. Well, although it is codeshared with BA there is no way I can get a Premium Economy ticket, only the normal economy or business class.
- In order to purchase a Premium Economy ticket, I had to buy two: a MAD-LHR-MAD ticket and LHR-DXB-LHR.

For me -like so many others- who are travelling all the time and have to save on travel expenses, this service is fantastic. I actually travel in certain comfort at a reasonable price and am pretty pleased when saving thousands.

Why no more? - I wonder....  scratchchin  I guess while competition does not force others to move, the attitude of most operators will be that of 'take it or leave it'. Well, all I can say is thank you BA. You now have a new faithful customer for long-haul. Book Premium Economy and spend my savings on great weekends!! That's a deal!!  veryhappy 


Who says airports are boring places?!
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIcLCY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11603 times:



Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
Apparently Eva Air started offering this product many years ago but did not succeed

Eva still offers Evergreen Deluxe/Elite(premium Y)

Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
It is not offered on any of the travel sites on the net i.e. Last Minute, Edreams, etc

Expedia, Yahoo, Traveljungle, Travelocity, Lastminute, Ebookers..... All offer you the choice to search for Y+


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11589 times:



Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
- Apparently Eva Air started offering this product many years ago but did not succeed.

BR still has premium Y, the newer version is "Elite" class.

Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
- It is not offered on any of the travel sites on the net i.e. Last Minute, Edreams, etc.



Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
- What is worst, BA's Premium Economy service is not even offered when booking on another oneworld airline.

That is annoying, though maybe it can be had by specifying a specific fare bucket the goes into the premium Y.


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11586 times:



Quoting IcLCY (Reply 1):
Expedia, Yahoo, Traveljungle, Travelocity, Lastminute, Ebookers..... All offer you the choice to search for Y+

Where? Expedia and Travelocity have pull down menu for "Economy/Coach", "Business", and "First", but no Y+.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4598 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11573 times:



Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
- Only a few airlines have it nowadays. I believe SAS, JAL only recently, Virgin Atlantic and not many others.

Qantas have it from April 1 this year. Go to the QF web site - it looks so much better than BA - it is way more expensive too.

I am flying BA WT+ for the first time on 12 April - really looking forward to giving it a go! Great to see you enjoyed it!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

TH has Premium Economy on their 345's only. I took advantage of the service last summer on LAX-BKK-LAX. It is a great compromise between Business and Economy. They were running a special on the service which is why I tried it and I was glad I did. A little more legroom, a leg rest and almost and better recline made the 17 hrs each way much more bearable.

Unfortunately, they have moved these planes to different routes now and the 346 that replaced the 345 does not have the service.

I highly recommend it to those who can get it.

Mike


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1294 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11540 times:

United Airlines, one of the largest airlines in the world, offers Economy plus throughout its entire mainline fleet since many years now. http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1314,00.html It is available for a bit higher fare or free for elite members (frequent flyers).


There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11453 times:



Quoting Glareskin (Reply 6):
United Airlines, one of the largest airlines in the world, offers Economy plus throughout its entire mainline fleet since many years now.

UA's Y+ product isn't quite the same as the premium economy services offered by the other carriers mentioned which use different seats with fewer seats abreast. UA's product is just the standard Y seat but with increased pitch.

The question of why many major carriers haven't yet introduced a premium Y product no doubt relates to the types of traffic and demand and whether it would likely be profitable since it reduces total seating. I've been on a few BA longhaul flights which were virtually full in the standard Y cabin but the premium Y cabin was almost empty.


User currently offlineEUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11411 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
I've been on a few BA longhaul flights which were virtually full in the standard Y cabin but the premium Y cabin was almost empty.

Totally agree. Actually this is how and why I looked into it. I wondered what those 'a bit larger, a bit wider' seats where and started looking for the product on the internet. It almost seems as if they (the airline) don't want to you to know.



Who says airports are boring places?!
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11387 times:



Quoting EUROBUS (Thread starter):
In order to purchase a Premium Economy ticket, I had to buy two: a MAD-LHR-MAD ticket and LHR-DXB-LHR.

You could always try booking on BA's website, through BA's callcenter or a travel agent: all three of those channels should be more than capable of offering a World Traveller Plus ticket from MAD to your destination, be it DXB or wherever else.

BA has WTP fares ex Germany as well - you're booked in regular Economy on the trip to London, and WTP on the onward connection.

That way you have one ticket and avoid the hassle and, especially, the risk involved having two separate tickets.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineEUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11308 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 9):
You could always try booking on BA's website

I did. And don't ask me why but it was a lot more expensive -the choice being MAD-LHR on 'Euro traveller' and LHR-DXB on Premium Economy (via an upgrade on ba.com as the system initially only offers you 'World Traveller').



Who says airports are boring places?!
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11256 times:



Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 5):
TH has Premium Economy on their 345's only.

As does SQ.

NZ offers it on long-haul services from this part of the world (including twice daily AKL to LHR via both/either HKG and LAX) and soon QF will too which may prompt NZ to improve and expand their offering - particularly once the 773ER's arrive.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11224 times:



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 11):
Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 5):
TH has Premium Economy on their 345's only.

As does SQ.

But on SQ it's their only economy class product. The entire Y cabin has the same 2-3-2 seating. There have been other threads speculating that SQ may be considering an all J-class product on the 345s.


User currently offlineLH459 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11223 times:



Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 5):
TH has Premium Economy on their 345's only.

Sorry to quibble, but you mean TG.

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 5):
Unfortunately, they have moved these planes to different routes now and the 346 that replaced the 345 does not have the service.

The 346 is an occasional equipment substitution, when a 345 has to be taken out of service for planned maintenance. The 345 still operates this route 90% of the time.



"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11212 times:

I love the premium economy idea, it's nice for people like me who can't afford business but want something more than Y. UA really needs to upgrad theirs however, the legroom is nice but shoulder room would also be nice. UA's is kind of confusing also, how do you get access? I wish someone like DL would pick this up, maybe a nicer seat that is a little wider than normal Y and gives you more legroom (for domestic). International for DL could be their domestic first seats and make it premium econ on the planes that now have the lie flat biz seats

User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11177 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
But on SQ it's their only economy class product. The entire Y cabin has the same 2-3-2 seating.

No, it's Y+ or premium economy. And my point was that, as with TG, SQ only offer this on their A345 fleet. What was your point?

Quoting LH459 (Reply 13):
Sorry to quibble, but you mean TG.

That's not quibbling, that's well spotted and noted.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11111 times:



Quoting Glareskin (Reply 6):
United Airlines, one of the largest airlines in the world, offers Economy plus throughout its entire mainline fleet since many years now. http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1314,00.html It is available for a bit higher fare

The last time I checked it was not available for a higher fare. The highest fare outside of business or first does not get one into Y+. Non-elites either have to pay a fixed yearly fee or pay a variable charge when checking in.


User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11061 times:

Thanks for the TH/TW correction. I was going to fast.

Mike


User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11033 times:

Hm, interesting. I've travelled in BA's WTP (World Traveller Plus) cabin several times through standby 'upgrade' (ha! Some upgrade), and i don't rate it at all! I'd certainly never pay extra for it out of my own pocket. Given that it has the same tiny ptv screen as in Economy, and the same catering, I'd keep the money for a nice hotel at the destination.

Riv'



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11002 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 15):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
But on SQ it's their only economy class product. The entire Y cabin has the same 2-3-2 seating.

No, it's Y+ or premium economy. And my point was that, as with TG, SQ only offer this on their A345 fleet. What was your point?

My point was that, unlike other airlines with a premium economy cabin in addition to normal economy, SQ's A345s have only one type of Y class seating in a more spacious 2-3-2 layout, which was intended to offer an improved standard of service on the routes operated by those aircraft (SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX). I think another reason was to limit the total passenger capacity due to weight considerations on those ultra-longhaul routes.

So if you book Y class on SQ 345s you have no choice of upgrading to premium economy unlike carriers like BA/VS etc. And their Y class fares for that 345 product often are no higher than the standard Y class fares.

[Edited 2008-02-29 14:26:40]

User currently offline757ops From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10918 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

BD also offer Premium Economy on their A330 a/c and since they introduced flat beds into the Business cabin and moved the electronically reclining seats into economy plus, now have the largest leg room in any Economy Plus Cabin of any airline!

(Also the service is with real glasses  Smile )

www.flybmi.com


User currently offlineBigvince76 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10808 times:



Quoting 757ops (Reply 20):
BD also offer Premium Economy on their A330 a/c and since they introduced flat beds into the Business cabin and moved the electronically reclining seats into economy plus, now have the largest leg room in any Economy Plus Cabin of any airline!

(Also the service is with real glasses Smile )

www.flybmi.com

Add to that quite good noise cancelling headphones, guaranteed choice of meal and a head start on the rest of the plain at immigration and BDs Y+ is really hard to beat! Keep a look out for offers though, it can be very expensive at times but then sometimes can be had for not much more than regular Y.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10775 times:



Quoting Analog (Reply 3):
Where? Expedia and Travelocity have pull down menu for "Economy/Coach", "Business", and "First", but no Y+.

Expedia.co.uk certainly offers Premium Economy........don't think .com does though, and site offerings/products is generally inferior to .co.uk anyhow though.


User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10733 times:

The UK version of Travelocity has 'Premium Economy'.

The UK version of Opodo has 'Premium Economy'.

The UK version of Expedia has 'Premium Economy'.

The UK version of eBookers has 'Enhanced Economy'.

I guess it just depends where you are booking from...  crazy 

Riv'



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10486 times:

Are you sure you cant book on Ba.com?

I know when I fly from Syd through to Nice where I live now I can select WT+ class. It books you in WT+ for the long haul and Y for the short haul - it should work using BA's website.

If not, as someone else suggested what about checking using BA's call centre?


In terms of Y+ I would like to clarify.

There are airlines that offer REAL Y+ with bigger seats (and some with separate cabin, better meals and priority boarding and luggage) - VS, BA, NZ, and SQ and TG on A345. And now SK and BD.

And those like United that dont offer it as a separate cabin/booking option but have it as an added feature to upgrade elites and full fare Y class pax to - that only includes a few inches of extra legroom.

IMHO, NZ and VS are the best value for monet providing business class service (priority luggage and boarding), and business class meals. This is more like a downgraded business product than the rest which are more like upgraded economy products.


25 Baron52ta : This is because it is an IB aircraft even though it carries a BA codeshare and you pay for both airlines and since IB don't have the product they can
26 YULWinterSkies : At least UA offers it at check-in (unless already all booked obviously), so maybe if you booked BA through another OneWorld partner, you can change at
27 Aeroman62 : I flew Virgin Atlantic in Premium Economy last Sunday, LHR/SFO, it rocked - and beats the you-know-what out of BA's product, and leaves UA's Economy P
28 Ba97 : I fly BA WTP all the time across the Atlantic and have been doing it for years. Actually, it was one of the reasons I switched from AC. Business on a
29 Analog : UA E+ is typically a lot cheaper (if you pay at checkin; free for elites) than VS E+. We're talking a factor of 1.5x (ballpark; it's probably more).
30 Bombayhog : What you're talking about sounds a lot like domestic First.
31 Koruman : United Economy Plus is not a premium economy class. It is economy class, just with a bit more legroom for the airline's own frequent flyers. Premium
32 Heathrow : Interesting story, my dad flew BA Y+ YYZ-LHR-YYZ on his visa avion points. When he called to reserve a ticket, the woman told him how much they were w
33 Post contains links Gabrielchew : I flew NZ Premium economy a few weeks ago from Hong Kong to London - excellent value, and far better than normal economy. More airlines should offer t
34 Post contains images EUROBUS : Wow! Those seats are something quite special! I guess it only makes sense for this product to be gradually introduced into most airlines, especially
35 Sandager : Thai does offer Premium Economy on flights to Scandinavia too. These flights are operated on B747-300 or B747-400. Businessclass passengers are then
36 Boeingluvr : I've had trouble booking BA WTP at travel agencies. they seem to only get me First, Business or economy. Plus sometimes there's a medium between Econo
37 Sketty222 : This is true. Its a new product so it is a lot better than the one BA offer at the moment but BA are to re-introduce an upodated version of WTP in th
38 Post contains images Ansett767 : Would be awesome if its like what is proposed on their new Openskies airline. 52" pitch... bring it on
39 Ba97 : The discussion leads me to ask if premium economy is a valuable product for a carrier and who is the target consumer? I expect it depends on the routi
40 EUROBUS : Yeah, quite. At three times the price. This product is very competitive when booking on BA out of LHR. This is my point, why is it made so difficult
41 Post contains links and images Jamesontheroad : View Large View MediumPhoto © Andy Martin - AirTeamImages Try asking at check-in. When I've asked, remaining premium economy seats between MAN a
42 Post contains images Rivet42 : Out of curiosity I had a look at ba.com, and there does indeed appear to be an anomaly (aka 'bug') in the pricing...: MAD-DXB out 15/05 return 29/05
43 Post contains images Sketty222 : When Ive asked this question before Ive been told that its to do with competition guidelines(?) and its so they are priced similarly to other airline
44 Rivet42 : Of course, thanks for correcting me! I suspect the 'excuse' would be something along those lines, except that as the thread starter states, there is
45 Kanebear : This is one of those cases where a travel agent comes in very handy. What is difficult or impossible to do on the web is trivial in a GDS. It's easy t
46 Bongodog1964 : Every BA flight where I have flown WT+ it has had 90% or more occupancy, even when WT and/or clubworld have been light I know BA staff have posted on
47 SA7700 : SA with their long flights, especially to the United States, comes to mind. IMO there are SA passengers who will be willing to pay for a premium econ
48 Post contains images EUROBUS : That sounds great! Any chance of you sharing that info with us? It seems like the ideal solution.
49 Ansett767 : Very true. However their network is tiny. What routes do they fly on? At least with VS and BA, NZ etc - you can fly all around the world....
50 Viscount724 : I wonder what the Amadeus and Sabre contracts with that travel agency say about the agency providing access to their own customers? I would have thou
51 757ops : This is of course true, BD offer Y+ on MAN-LAS/ORD/BGI/ANU and LHR-JED/RUH And soon Dammam but if you are flying on these routes they are definitely
52 AIR MALTA : I have tried WTP several times with BA. Our travel policy does not allow us to book Club if the flight is less than 7 hours. So for DXB and KWI we hav
53 Post contains links Kanebear : I'm not sure about Europe. In the US quite a few host agencies exist. I did a perfunctory google search and didn't find anything about host agencies
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