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"The Independent": Cheap Flying A Disaster (  
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6714 posts, RR: 78
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

"The Independant" has published an article about the consequences of cheap flying, open skies etc. - quite exaggerated considering that aviation is a rather minor contributor to global greenhouse gas emissions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...isaster-for-the-planet-790016.html


"At the other end of the scale, the appetite for short hops appears undiminished. Fourteen new domestic links are scheduled for the summer, including one from Newquay to Southampton – a distance of just 150 miles. Our love affair with aviation begins to look like a dangerous obsession."


PH

[Edited 2008-03-01 01:57:33]


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

I wish they would sort out their priorities: get the major contributors to substantially reduce their emissions, then move onto less significant areas, like aviation.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
"At the other end of the scale, the appetite for short hops appears undiminished. Fourteen new domestic links are scheduled for the summer, including one from Newquay to Southampton – a distance of just 150 miles. Our love affair with aviation begins to look like a dangerous obsession."

Might be 150mi as the crow flies, but if you were to drive it'd be around 194mi and take 4+ hours. Moreover, it'd take 6-7 hours by train.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6714 posts, RR: 78
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4524 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I wish they would sort out their priorities: get the major contributors to substantially reduce their emissions, then move onto less significant areas, like aviation.

 checkmark  That would be a logic approach.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):

Might be 150mi as the crow flies, but if you were to drive it'd be around 194mi and take 4+ hours. Moreover, it'd take 6-7 hours by train.

Yes, many people don't have the time to drive or take the train. And let's be realistic - if I can save money, why shouldn't I take the plane? It's not like daily life gets cheaper in general, it's rather the opposite.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4506 times:

If they are going after short haul, how about London to Paris/Brussels/Manchester where there are viable alternatives.

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4503 times:



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
And let's be realistic - if I can save money, why shouldn't I take the plane?

Exactly. It's all about choice. If they were really serious about it, they could try to educate you to "change your ways," but I really cannot foresee a situation in which you're prohibited from flying - unless, of course, airlines are taxed so much it's not feasible for them to operate.

Anyway, I love the thought of environmental protestors DRIVING to their little get-together.

Tackle the major polluters, get those under control, then move onto the less polluting areas.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

In many ways these short hops are a disaster. The distance could certainly be accomplished by using less energy by train or even car.

However, this particular case, as Pearson points out, the alternatives are few, it's a long way by car, and the rail infrastructure doesn't really go between the cities. So the aircraft is clearly a viable choice.

What really needs to be eliminated are the short hops between major cities like London and Manchester under the 300-400 mile boundary. Really, the French have a good system at CDG. Where the TGV competitively links the airport (as well as the city) with nearly the rest of France. This means that not only are internal connection cut out, but flights that feed smaller cities with the CDG hub. This way the train and aircraft work extremely harmoniously. It's a good way of not only cutting out short 'wasteful' flights, but it also rids the airports of countless high frequency feeder flights, freeing up slots.


User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4314 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
What really needs to be eliminated are the short hops between major cities like London and Manchester under the 300-400 mile boundary. Really, the French have a good system at CDG. Where the TGV competitively links the airport (as well as the city) with nearly the rest of France. This means that not only are internal connection cut out, but flights that feed smaller cities with the CDG hub. This way the train and aircraft work extremely harmoniously. It's a good way of not only cutting out short 'wasteful' flights, but it also rids the airports of countless high frequency feeder flights, freeing up slots.

Well put!  checkmark 

When you compare, for example, Heathrow, to its main hub competitors in Europe, it is woefully served by the national rail infrastructure. Indeed it's not actually on the national rail network at all, as you have to take the dedicated trains (Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect) to other stations in order to change to national rail services.

Now, 12% of landings & departures at LHR are domestic flights. Instead of spending the next 10 years arguing over, and planning for, a 3rd runway & a 6th terminal, it would be far quicker and cheaper to upgrade the rail links into LHR so that you can get on a high speed train at say, T5, and go direct to Manchester, and all points north. That could free up enough slots in the long run to provide space for growth in international routes within the existing framework.

But that's a very European 'joined-up-thinking' approach, and we here seem to prefer the 'decades-of-public-planning-enquiry' approach, which inevitably leads to projects such as T5 being almost obsolete by the time they are actually built!!  crazy 

Riv'



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineFruitbat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 549 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3911 times:



Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 6):
But that's a very European 'joined-up-thinking' approach

The day we see any sort of joined up thinking in UK transport policy (from any political party) i'll .... erm .... be so amazed that I won't be able to do anything - i'll be catatonic with shock  Smile

The Independent's known for it's "crusading" attitude - and it wouldn't let a sensible challenge (e.g. go after flights between major population centres) get in the way of the attention grabbling headline (Newquay - Southampton).

In fact why complain about the UK - what about the US approach to short hops - I recently flew ORD - CLE - ORD and ORD - IND and they can't have been more than 200 miles....ironically I then drove IND to ORD due to weather (wanted to avoid any delay into ORD in order to get flight back to UK - weather forecast was poor and the IND - ORD flight's a nightmare). This took 2 hours to get from city limit to city limit and a further 2.5 hours to get across Chicago. Bl00dy SatNav!!!  Smile (and only just made the flight!!)

Goodness knows how much CO2 the Chicago traffic was kicking out...  Yeah sure



Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3453 times:



Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
Our love affair with aviation begins to look like a dangerous obsession.

Quite frankly, judging by the way the media have treated the industry over the last few years, it hardly looked like a love affair.



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6862 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2584 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
In many ways these short hops are a disaster. The distance could certainly be accomplished by using less energy by train or even car.

 checkmark 

It is a disgrace how successive UK governments (both red and blue) have failed to come up with a credible transport policy. (And I write as a UK citizen and long-time UK taxpayer.) I've lived in the UK, Switzerland, Germany (and Japan) and I know France well. Public transport in the UK compares very unfavourably with all of those and British roads are the most congested.

The UK is a country screaming out for an efficient - and centralised - rail system. The tragedy is, it used to have one.  Sad

I'm an aviation fan (else I wouldn't be here) but trains make more sense across much of the UK than more air links - LCC or otherwise.


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