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Eastern's 747(s) Routes  
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

I was reading up on Eastern...I saw this picture in the db

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Photo © Art Brett - Photovation Images

and of several other 747s from Eastern as well-looking like all from Pan Am... Where did Eastern fly these planes to? By the looks of it, MIA and JFK; anywhere else?

Thanks!


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

I would think JFK-SJU was another primary route.

User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2607 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Definitely MIA/ORD in the early 70's. My parents flew home on one after a Caribben cruise around 71 or 72.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Whose 747 in the background of the pic?

User currently offlineSe210 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

EI B747 I suspect


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Every now and then one would find its way into ATL (not scheduled). It was always sort of comical to watch it thread its way to a place to park at the old facilities. I think JFK-SJU was the prime route.


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

I think they were used pretty much west coast to atlanta (prior to Atlanta being a major hub for EA), south florida and the east coast. Eastern didn't fly to South America at that time.

I have my doubts about the MIAORD run posted earlier. Perhaps as an extra section at some point, but not as scheduled service.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Excerpt below the following Airchive.com page:
http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-EASTERN.html

Eastern introduced 4 747’s in late 1970 to Miami, Chicago, New York, and San Juan. The 747’s were sold to TWA before they were delivered and leased back in the interim before the arrival of the L-1011 in 1972. Just a year before, Eastern who was never a favorite of the CAB, finally received permission to fly to Los Angeles and Dallas from Atlanta.


User currently offlineCF6PPE From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

All of the three EAL operated B747-121's - i.e., PanAm owned frames (N731PA, N735PA and N737PA) - were primarily operated between JFK, SJU and MIA. The PanAm lease was for a period of about 1.5 years, but there were only three frames at EAL during the winter season.

I don't remember the details of which frames were painted with the traditional EAL Ionosphere Blue/Carribean Blue "hokey stick" livery, but one or two were operated with a hybrid livery incorporating the PanAm horizontal line with the EAL Falcon over the PanAm world globe.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
Eastern introduced 4 747’s in late 1970 to Miami, Chicago, New York, and San Juan. The 747’s were sold to TWA before they were delivered and leased back in the interim before the arrival of the L-1011 in 1972.

Note: The B747-100's originally ordered by EAL were delivered to TWA with a -131 designation.
TWA B747-131 registered as N93119 which crashed while being operated as TWA flight 800 17JUL96 off Moriches, NY was one of the three EAL ordered B747 frames.
NONE of the EAL ordered B747's were ever operated by EAL.


User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

I believe JFK-BDA was a route operated by the EA 747's.


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13754 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
Eastern introduced 4 747’s

 redflag 

There were three, not four.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1609 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Eastern ordered four 747-125s but with the L-1011 order sold them to TWA prior to delivery. As an interim widebody pending receipt of the Lockheeds, three 747-121s were leased from Pan Am beginning the winter of 1970/71. N731PA was leased only from January through April 1971 in modified Pan Am colors and again from November 1971 until April 1972 in full Eastern colors. N735PA and N737PA were in full Eastern paint.

The three 747s operated between Chicago, Miami, New York-JFK and San Juan and were returned to Pan Am as soon as the L-1011s arrived.

In 1980, Eastern ordered two 747-238s from QANTAS for Miami-London Heathrow but when the UK government insisted Eastern use Gatwick instead, Eastern bowed out and the orders were cancelled. The two -238s were painted but never delivered.


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User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3374 times:



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
I think they were used pretty much west coast to atlanta

Anybody find a timetable showing that?

Cearley mentions ORD-MIA, JFK-MIA and JFK-SJU, but doesn't show any timetables.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3278 times:
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Were they operated by EA crews? I would think that it would be too costly to train flight crews to only be operate the 747s for such a short amount of time.


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User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3075 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
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Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Were they operated by EA crews?

they were flown by PanAm flight crews, EA cabin crews as i recall.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 11):
The two -238s were painted but never delivered.

Only one, N371EA, was painted, the second was painted white but never had the stripes or logos applied.

And just to really confuse everyone:

There were 4 different PA 747-100s operated for EA, but only 3 operated at most at any one time.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3088 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Were they operated by EA crews

Yes both cabin and flight.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3028 times:



Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 11):
Eastern ordered four 747-125s but with the L-1011 order sold them to TWA prior to delivery.

Following are three of the four 747-100s ordered by EA but not taken up and delivered to TW as 747-131s. The other one was N93118 but there's no A.net photo of it. The first two below were sold to the Iranian Air Force after only a year or so in TW service, and the one in the third photo was the aircraft lost in the TWA800 accident in 1996.


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Photo © Brian Lockett
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Photo © Paul Goddard



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Photo © AlainDurand



User currently offlineCF6PPE From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Thank you Gr8SlvrFlt for clarifying the dates of the PanAm leases for N731PA, N735PA and N737PA. (My memory of this program and its details has faded in the more than 35 years since EAL operated the B747-121 frames.)

One of the PanAm B747's that was supposed to be in the PanAm lease to EAL program was N752PA. This frame was hijacked and eventually blown up at Cario on 06SEP70. (prior to the start of the lease period.)
Link to details of this event: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700906-0

Looking back, I wonder if the leasing of the PanAm B747's was really needed...??
EAL spent some $70 million for this lease program. I guess that the EAL management (Floyd Hall, etal.) weren't confident that not having the big wide-bodies in the fleet was going to have a negative effect on the perception of the public*.

After all, at that time EAL had a fleet of 17 ea. DC8-61's, six ea. DC8-63's and three DC8-51's to haul the public.
Also, at the time 1971/72 the EAL fleet included approximately 87 ea. DC9-14/-31, 90+ ea. B727-25/-25QC/-225 and several L-188 Electra.

* by 1971/72, the WHEAL Club wasn't exactly dead. (For some of you  Smile , the WH stands for "we hate").

Does anybody care to comment re: the WHEAL Club...??


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting CF6PPE (Reply 17):
After all, at that time EAL had a fleet of 17 ea. DC8-61's, six ea. DC8-63's and three DC8-51's to haul the public.

I was always curious why Eastern bought the six DC-8-63s since they had no routes that required the -63's range,and they only kept them between 3 and 5 years (all delivered in 1969 and sold between 1972 and 1974). I'm guessing it was related to the Vietnam war which was in progress then and like quite a few other US carriers Eastern operated military charters. There's a photo of one of the -63s at Yokota Air Base in Japan in 1972 on a military charter. The -63s were obviously more suitable for routes like that than the shorter-range -61s.


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The EA -63s were the only six DC-8-63PF models built. They had the reinforced structure of the freighter but lacked the main deck cargo door. As a result they were easier to convert to freighters after their passenger days ended. CP Air in Canada, where I worked then in YVR, bought one of the first two EA -63s in 1972. So at least it finally had a few years of longhaul service to Europe, Asia, South America and Australia. I flew on that aircraft a few times (it was originally named "Empress of Athens" and later renamed "Empress of Manitoba"). It had a slightly different interior layout than CP's other -63s and the doors were in different positions. I remember my first flight on it was YVR-HNL. Photos at it's namesake city ATH in 1973 and at YYZ in 1981, coincidentally next to an Eastern 727-100.


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Photo © Marc Dease


[Edited 2008-03-03 21:00:10]

User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

EA bought -63's in anticipation of the CAB's ruling on Pacific routes which ultimately granted them to AA instead.

User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Eastern Airlines anticipated receiving the MIA-LHR route, but when the reward was granted the British government stipulated that London Gatwick would be the only granted airport-of-entry. Nearly thirty years ago the carrier considered Gatwick such a "second rate" reliever airport (contrast the amount of traffic today), service was not commenced until 1985. The two ex-Qantas Boeing 747-200s were never put into service. Here is one website I found which contained the history: http://www.eastern-va.com/fleet/747200_1.htm

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

I also recall reading in one of my books (I'll have to look it up) that Eastern ordered the long range DC-8's when the CAB awarded them routes to Hawai'i. President L.B. Johnson actually overruled the CAB and gave the routes to Braniff instead.

Insert political sarcasm here.

Eastern still took delivery of the stretch-8's, but I don't think they ever made it to Hawai'i.



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User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

Just to clarify the MIA-London confusion.

In the late 1970s, there were two separate MIA-London route cases.

The first case was whether Pan Am would be allowed to assume National's MIA-LHR route when the two airlines merged, or whether the authority would be given to another airline. If the authority had been given to another airline, that airline would have had to serve LGW, but if it went to Pan Am, PA would have been allowed to serve LHR, but ONLY because PA was National's "corporate successor" for legal purposes. The CAB allowed PA to assume NA's authority as part of the merger, and denied all other requests for the route.

A year or two later, a separate route case was held for the right to fly MIA-LGW, in competition with Laker Airways. This route case was won by Air Florida.

After Air Florida collapsed in 1984, a new case was held for their MIA-LGW rights; this case was won by Eastern.

One other point: PA was ONLY allowed to serve LHR from MIA because they were National's corporate successor, not because they already served LHR. Around the same time PA was allowed to assume MIA-LHR, they also won a route case to fly Houston-London, in competition with British Caledonian. Even though PA already served LHR, they were required to fly IAH-LGW, not IAH-LHR, under the terms of the US-Great Britain treaty.



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