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BA Cityflyer To Replace RJ100'S BY Early 2009  
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

According to a interview with BA's commercial director Robert Boyle

BA is to replace the 10 RJ100's currently in it's CityFlyer fleet. They have ruled out the A318 as it is to heavy to operate ex LCY in a short haul configuration. Instead they are looking at ordering Embraer 170/190's or even introducing turboprops. They also are not ruling out replacing them with newer RJ85's.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ace-rj100-fleet-by-early-2009.html

BA have just added there first RJ85 to the fleet registration G-LCYB and will add a second in May?

So will BA really add turboprops? If so which model?

Can the 170's and 190's operate from LCY?. Do the Embraer's have better range the the RJ100?

BA's chief executive has also said that LCY and LGW are very important to the future growth of BA.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5388 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
So will BA really add turboprops? If so which model?

It would be either the Q400 or ATR 72 I would have thought but then its a drop in capacity for the airline but maybe the finances of operating them are better?

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
Can the 170's and 190's operate from LCY?.

From what I remember reading somewhere the 170s might be but I can't remember the source.

Maybe if we see the ERJ's at LCY they might introduce the 195 at LGW as a replacement for the 737s?



Living the jetset life! No better way to be
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5266 times:



Quoting BMED (Reply 1):
Maybe if we see the ERJ's at LCY they might introduce the 195 at LGW as a replacement for the 737s?

Can't see this one; it would be a downgrade in terms of seats, and the future for BA mainline shorthaul seems to be A320 series.


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5193 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
BA have just added there first RJ85 to the fleet registration G-LCYB and will add a second in May?

I think that's mainly because of long flights to MAD as I read here. The RJ100 has to be weight limited to reach MAD so RJ85s can do the task carrying the max amount of load.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
BA's chief executive has also said that LCY and LGW are very important to the future growth of BA.

Well, if LHR is congested the only way they have to grow is by using LCY and LGW. Even if LHR gets the 3rd runway between now and the judgement day, T5 (+B and C) will be still used at limits.

Quoting BMED (Reply 1):
It would be either the Q400 or ATR 72

I think the ATR72 is not certified for LCY. So it'd have to be the Q400. Anyway, BA is not a costumer of either two, so it would create a really small sub-fleet. I think 318 is more viable seeing all the 320-series BA has.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11615 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5085 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 3):
I think the ATR72 is not certified for LCY. So it'd have to be the Q400. Anyway, BA is not a costumer of either two, so it would create a really small sub-fleet. I think 318 is more viable seeing all the 320-series BA has

I'm pretty sure that the ATR 72 can be operated from a 900m runway with a full load - wasn't this the requirements of Cebu Pacific purchasing the aircraft type in order to fly in and out of Caticlan in the Philippines? However, the cruising speed might well be an issue.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 3):
I think that's mainly because of long flights to MAD as I read here. The RJ100 has to be weight limited to reach MAD so RJ85s can do the task carrying the max amount of load.



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
BA have just added there first RJ85 to the fleet registration G-LCYB and will add a second in May?

Will this RJ85 be put straight onto the LCY-MAD route? I'm flying it at the start of April and am interested to know if it'll be an RJ85 or RJ100.

Thanks,


Dan  Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently onlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5046 times:
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Quoting Aisak (Reply 3):
I think 318 is more viable seeing all the 320-series BA has.

The A318 has apparently already been discounted - the airline considers it too heavy for the short hops from London City. Plus there are severe limits on how many A318s LCY can handle at the same time... and will be even with the new apron extension open.


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

I wonder what it will be. Personally I would see some E-170 / 175's as a replacement for the RJ's.
Will ask my friend who is F/O on the RJ100 at Cityflyer!



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

E-jets will look nice in BA colours!

User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7395 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4743 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 3):
I think that's mainly because of long flights to MAD as I read here. The RJ100 has to be weight limited to reach MAD so RJ85s can do the task carrying the max amount of load.

Yes. I believe that RJ100s operating LCY-MAD are restricted to carrying 65 passengers while RJ85s can operate the same route full.


User currently offlineLS051P From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

How about, as they have a 20% (I think) share in flybe, get them to move some of their many Q400's in to LCY, create a really slick operation, merge flybe and Cityflyer back into BA and there we go, everyone is happy! BA gets flybe's profitable regional ops + some E195's that would be a great replacement for the RJ100/85s.

Anyway back to reality ... my guess, more RJ85s.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3917 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

The word from Embraer is that the 170 is certified, and the 190 is in the process of being certified. The original sales contract with LX (when it was still crossair) had a clause SPECIFICALLY requiring LCY capability.

I dont think any of the CRJs can get in at all. So its between the E-190 and the Q400 (or possibly Q400 stretch). ATR-42 is LCY certified, Im not sure that the ATR is capable of LCY, maybe is a guide-slope thing, although the new -600 might be able, who knows!

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4691 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
Will this RJ85 be put straight onto the LCY-MAD route? I'm flying it at the start of April and am interested to know if it'll be an RJ85 or RJ100.

The first RJ85, according to the schedule will not enter service until May 5th. It's first revenue sector is BA8754 MAD/LCY The Aircraft looks like will position ex either STN or more likely EDI on the 05th. The flight BA8752 in the morning ex MAD will be the last RJ100 sector on the MAD/LCY route. Interestingly the flight BA8753 the am departure ex LCY is non op.

The aircraft will primarily operate this route Sunday to Friday and will operate the BA8706 to EDI after arriving into LCY ex MAD on a Saturday.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 3):
I think the ATR72 is not certified for LCY. So it'd have to be the Q400. Anyway, BA is not a costumer of either two, so it would create a really small sub-fleet. I think 318 is more viable seeing all the 320-series BA has.

The RJ is already sub fleet so shouldn't impact to much. The A318 is definite NO for BACF.

Quoting BMED (Reply 1):
Maybe if we see the ERJ's at LCY they might introduce the 195 at LGW as a replacement for the 737s?

LGW is to become a Airbus Base to give BA flexibility in moving aircraft around when and where they need to. They can also rotate aircraft at outstations to get them back to LHR or to send a different aircraft to LGW. BA currently operate flights from LGW and LHR to MAN/EDI/GLA/GVA/ZRH and AMS. The aircraft can be swapped when they night stop at these stations. BA may think about the A318 being added to the mainline short haul fleet. However rumours are that BA will only for now order the two a/c destined for the LCY/NYC route.

The latest word is BA are looking to open atleast two more routes next summer. Seemingly BACF is looking at the viability of a large number of routes from LCY. These include destanations in the British Isles, Ireland, Benelux, Scandanavia, former eastern block and Russia.


User currently offlineCopySouthwest From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

My guess is that they'll end up acquiring some RJ85s.

Does anyone know for sure what the current certification status is for the E170/190 at LCY?



Sit back, relax and enjoy your flight with us today.
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
How about, as they have a 20% (I think) share in flybe, get them to move some of their many Q400's in to LCY, create a really slick operation, merge flybe and Cityflyer back into BA and there we go, everyone is happy! BA gets flybe's profitable regional ops + some E195's that would be a great replacement for the RJ100/85s.

Anyway back to reality ... my guess, more RJ85s.

I know BA would not be happy if BA wanted to take over BE it would have done it. Willie Walsh said in a recent interview they would only merge with a full service international carrier. BA is happy with it's 20% stake for the moment. However we all know how quickly this industry can change. Also LCY is a very very good earner for BA.

More RJ85's would be a good option but there arent that many around. WX rescued most of the available ones from the desert.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
The word from Embraer is that the 170 is certified, and the 190 is in the process of being certified.

BA would need the 100+ seats the 195 would bring as it easily fills it's first two EDI/LCY services each weekday. It's last three services ex LCY operate with a load factor of around 85-90% and on most Thursday and Friday nights they can fill there last four flights to EDI. The 170 would suit routes like ZRH and GLA. Also the late morning early afternoon EDI services. The 195 could add capacity to the daily BCN/WAW and NCE services.

According to BACF forward booking on it's new routes to BCN and NCE are well above what they were expecting and WAW is also selling more seats than they thought it would.

Just out or curiousity does anyone know if the 190/195 has the range to operate as far as MOW, ATH and HEL

[Edited 2008-03-03 10:34:32]

User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4623 times:
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Quoting CopySouthwest (Reply 12):
Does anyone know for sure what the current certification status is for the E170/190 at LCY?

There was a 170 at LCY a while back http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/photos/9/4/7/0834749.jpg.

According to Wikipedia the E-jets (at least the 170) is certified to fly to LCY.

Sandyb123



DC3, 727, 737, 744, 753, 777, A32X, A345, A388, ERJ145, E190, BaE146, D328, ATR72, Q400
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4573 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
BA currently operate flights from LGW and LHR to MAN/EDI/GLA/GVA/ZRH and AMS

Also MAD, BCN and AGP. But MAD and BCN will only see 757 from LHR and the aircraft coming from LGW to AGP late night flies back to LGW the following morning. Maybe if they tweak the LHR-AGP-LHR schedule for next season, aircrafts could also swap there.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
The RJ is already sub fleet so shouldn't impact to much

Name it as you want but the fact is that both ATR and Dash would create another subfleet at at both LCY and BA ops.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
Seemingly BACF is looking at the viability of a large number of routes from LCY

They are surely expecting AF-KLM group to free up some slots because of VLM take-over.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
However rumours are that BA will only for now order the two a/c destined for the LCY/NYC route.

Yeah, i've got one question regarding that... Isn't two a/c for 2 daily flights a little tight? Same goes for the only 757 openskies will be operating on CDG-JFK until december.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4495 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
They are surely expecting AF-KLM group to free up some slots because of VLM take-over.

I think the competition authorities will make AF/KLM give up some of there slots and BACF will very likely use them for new routes if they can get there hands on them.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
Yeah, i've got one question regarding that... Isn't two a/c for 2 daily flights a little tight? Same goes for the only 757 openskies will be operating on CDG-JFK until December.

Agreed. There is a possibility the route will start as daily with one a/c standby at LHR, because of the shortage of parking at LCY. The initial plans is to have the aircraft land in LCY around 8am meaning a 8pm departure from ex NYC and then depart LCY around 9am. Which would mean landing in NYC for noon. I have heard that a number of BA's top corporate customers who use the JFK/LHR route have expressed an interest in using the route. 32J seats will be easy to fill in both directions.

As for Openskies. The flight will depart CDG at the same time as a flight to LHR. If the a/c goes tech pax will be accommodated on that flight and connect to a BA service for T5 at LHR. BA have not announced the timetable and as yet have not said the flight will be daily.

Also until recently L'Avion operated the exact same route with only one 757 and have just added there second.


User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4419 times:



Quoting CopySouthwest (Reply 12):
Does anyone know for sure what the current certification status is for the E170/190 at LCY?

According to EMBRAER press releases:

The E170 is certified for LCY operation, the E190 certification is ongoing, expected approval is 4Q 2008 (link).


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4414 times:



Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 17):
The E170 is certified for LCY operation, the E190 certification is ongoing, expected approval is 4Q 2008 (link).

BA want to replace the fleet by 2009 so that would be good timing


User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4342 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
I'm pretty sure that the ATR 72 can be operated from a 900m runway with a full load

That might be correct but I always thought the issue was the steep glide slope?



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