Rouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11292 times:
Hello!!
I'm an Aeromexico Flight attendant and i want to ask you for a favor:
I want to know if its possible to have information about the long-range flights in other airlines. I need to know the conditions about this kind of flights in different airlines in order to compare them with the conditions we have about our contract definition; this could be like the rest you take after and before one flight like this, if you have a break in the flight, how long are this flights for you, etc., all the information you can give me about it will be very helpfull for me trying to define this concept clearly with a kind of benchmarking.
I'll apreciate all your responses!!
Thankyou and have a grate day!
Pacifique75 From Portugal, joined Oct 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11116 times:
In the company I work for, minimum rest at our base is 2 nights after a longhaul flight. Abroad we usually stay 24h, with the exception of places where we dont fly daily... Also, we can not do 2 consecutive night flights and in those destinations we stay 2 local nights. On our longhaul flights we must have a break (rest period) of at least 30min - some of our aircraft it is the last row in Y, newer ones are fitted with bunks and our break is proportional to the flight time so longer flights mean a longer rest period. I hope my reply has somehow helped you!
BMED From United Kingdom (Scotland), joined Dec 2004, 834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10942 times:
Maybe ask this question on a website like cabincrew.com where it will prob get more answers, just a bit of friendly advice
Touch galley, touch trolley...see how many times you can do that without serving anybody whatsoever
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 1834 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10680 times:
At Swiss International Air Lines you usually work 6 days in a row when flying within europe and days can be up to 12 hours long this is followed by a 2 days off. However you could also have days you only fly ZRH-LHR-ZRH but u need to be ready to usually work 12 hours straight.
On long haul flights from Switzerland to North america East Coast, Africa including JNB, Middle East and India if flights are operated daily to this destination your stay will be as short as 24 hours not sure if even HKG and NRT are that short? After retruning back to ZRH you will get one full day off and then back to work but this depends.
N62NA From United States, joined Aug 2003, 1811 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10349 times:
Wow, this is a very interesting topic to me (I am not in the industry, just a fan of the industry). I hope to see many more replies here with information!
Airnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2473 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10336 times:
Hello,
At Qantas we have different rules for different bases...Ill give you AKL QF base.
Our time off at home depends on days of duty...For example,
4 day pattern= 24 hours minimum reduced to 17 hours in disruptive situation.
5 day pattern= 48 hours minimum reduced to 37 hours in disruptive.
When we stay in different countries, it all goes on flight times.
For Example...
00.59-11.59= 12 hours minimum rest 10 hours in disruptiuve situation
12.00-17.00= 17 hours minimum rest 12 hours in disruptive situation.
I can say usually we get
30-37 hours in LAX direct (from SYD/BNE/MEL/AKL)
12-24 hours in Asia (SIN/HKG/NRT/MNL/CGK/BKK/PVG)
48-72 hours in SFO
6 days in LAX when operating a JFK return.
12-24 hours in AKL
62 hours in Europe
minimum of 48 hours in Africa.
Its very complex over here...but i hope that helps.
Onboard, Must have a 20min break every 6 hours. Usually longer depending on sector time/ pax loads etc...
i'm so glad for all your answers! thank you very much, they're helping a lot!. I'll give you more details about my question so i can get what i need from other perspectives!
In Aeromexico, we are in a union (with Flight Attendants from Mexicana, Click & Aeromar) and we are trying to give a real definition to our longhaul flights because in our contract we only have that this flights are "the ones that have maximum 2 landings in which one of those have to be more than 4:30 (flight time)". so, lately roundtrips could be also a longhaul, for ex. MEX-JFK-MEX, CUN-YYL-CUN, JFK-PUE-LAX, in which both flights are more than 4:30, that's why we want to know how it works in other airlines...
In owr laws, if you do more than 8:30 (flight time) you have to rest 24 hrs wherever you are at the end of that journey, but in our contract, after a round trip (that could be MEX-JFK-MEX) we only have 18 hrs, so that's contradictory...
Standby87 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 430 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7463 times:
Quoting LXA340 (Reply 4): On long haul flights from Switzerland to North america East Coast, Africa including JNB, Middle East and India if flights are operated daily to this destination your stay will be as short as 24 hours not sure if even HKG and NRT are that short? After retruning back to ZRH you will get one full day off and then back to work but this depends.
All LX long-haul destinations apart from Tokyo are now 1-night only slips for the Crew.
I found that out from crew flying to Miami whose airbourne time ZRH-MIA in winter season can sometimes be 12 hours!!
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 1834 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
Quoting Standby87 (Reply 10): All LX long-haul destinations apart from Tokyo are now 1-night only slips for the Crew.
Are u sure about LAX, because at least a month ago they still had 48 hours it has also something do do with the 9 hours time difference. Then there are the rotations to BKK/SIN and GRU/SCL. There the crew gets 11 full day off then they operate BKK-SIN-BKK and respectively GRU-SCL-GRU. The next day they return to ZRH.
Regarding MIA this is really a pain especially as there are no crew rests on the A330's well as of July 18th this flight will be operated with A340's.
Ludavid777 From United States, joined Jun 2001, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5851 times:
For Continental Airlines
US, Canada, Alaska, Central America, and Northern South America, is all considered domestic. So all those flights are worked by domestic flight attendants, except for the language speakers.
Those flights have a maximum of a 14 hour scheduled duty-days and a minimum rest of 9 hours on your layover and 10 hours when you return home.
So the pairings can be killers, example, Houston - Buenos Aires.
Leave IAH to EZE 9PM arrive in EZE at 9:20AM the next day
Rest 11 hours then leave that same night back to IAH at 9:50pm arrive in IAH at 6:20am the next day.
It's great as far as block goes, you have better productivity, but it's tiring and obviously you can't enjoy your layover in Buenos Aires since you'll be in bed resting most of the time.
BTW you do get crew rest inflight during any scheduled flight blocking more than 8 hours.
***** For Europe, Asia, and Hawaii , which is what is considered international
The same crew rest applies a minimum of 9 hours unless the duty time is longer than 14 than you get 12 hours. In Europe and Asia, because of the time difference layovers are usually 24 hours or more.
So in regards to your MEX-JFK-MEX, turns we have the same somtimes, we have transcon turns, like EWR-SEA-EWR. Or even IAH-UIO-IAH, or IAH-CCS-IAH. etc... Not always but sometimes they build those pairings...
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 1834 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5085 times:
Quoting Pacifique75 (Reply 15): LXA340, does the crew really stay 11 days in BKK and GRU or is that the trip lenght, total nr of days away from
their base?? Just curious...
No no no.... If this would be the case FA would still be a dream job. My error it's 1 not 11. The crew arrives from flying their GRU-SCL-GRU segment or BKK-SIN-BKK segment get off the plane and will fly back home around 24 hours later to ZRH
NWADTWFA From United States, joined Jun 2004, 156 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4827 times:
Rouge,
This is a great question. I will try to provide you with the basics for NWA flight attendants.
Flying at our airline is broken into two classes; domestic and international. The definition is different pay and scheduling purposes.
For domestic you have to have 12 hours rest before and after a trip unless you select to reduce your rest and then the minimum is 9. Minimum layover time on domestic block to block can be no shorter than 9 hours. Under those conditions you can not be scheduled over 13 hours and you can not be flown into your 14th hour. There are some extenuating circumstances in which you may have longer duty days; but those are for single duty periods and not applied to multiple day trips. There is no longer a limit on our block hours for a day.
For international we have two basic stage lengths: regular (e.g. DTW-AMS) and extended duty (DTW-NRT). Extended duty is triggered by duty day length. The result is a longer rest period on your layover and double your flight time off after your trip. For example DTW-NRT-DTW is a 3 day trip that is classified as extended duty; total block time is 25 for the three days, when you get home from the trip you have 50 hours of rest. For non-extended duty you have 15:45 rest after your return to base; but on a layover you only need 12:45 rest block to block. Crew breaks exist on any flight longer that 7 hours block time.
BAW716 From United States, joined Nov 2003, 1849 posts, RR: 39 Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4723 times:
Quoting LXA340 (Reply 4): At Swiss International Air Lines you usually work 6 days in a row when flying within europe and days can be up to 12 hours long this is followed by a 2 days off. However you could also have days you only fly ZRH-LHR-ZRH but u need to be ready to usually work 12 hours straight.
On long haul flights from Switzerland to North america East Coast, Africa including JNB, Middle East and India if flights are operated daily to this destination your stay will be as short as 24 hours not sure if even HKG and NRT are that short? After retruning back to ZRH you will get one full day off and then back to work but this depends.
Wow, when I worked at AZ, our flight and cabin crews got 48 hours rest at the turnaround point (our flights were blocked at over 12 hours each direction); then as I understood it, they got 24 hours off, then worked another long haul turn, or short haul...F/As at AZ worked both long haul and short haul, based on seniority. Of course, I wasn't a flight attendant; just the guy who had to feed and care for them while they were in SFO. That said, I have always maintained that the Italians did things differently.
baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 1834 posts, RR: 8 Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4644 times:
Quoting BAW716 (Reply 18): Wow, when I worked at AZ, our flight and cabin crews got 48 hours rest at the turnaround point (our flights were blocked at over 12 hours each direction); then as I understood it, they got 24 hours off, then worked another long haul turn, or short haul...F/As at AZ worked both long haul and short haul, based on seniority.
AZ had a much to high cost structure and we see what happened to them hence those times are over now as well. LX went through restructuring and costs had to be reduced significantly this also applied for the FA's more work and less payment. Now that LX is growing again there is a FA and Pilot shortage on top of that which in extreme cases could have a result that you fly up to 6 times in a row ZRH-East Coast USA-ZRH only having a full day off each time at ZRH but this is really an extreme scenario and doesn't happen that often. They are in the process of hiring new FA's like crazy however it will still take a while until the situation will stabilize. nevertheless newly recruited FA's benefit as they are trained as early as 6 to 8 months into the job for long haul.
Caribillo From Spain, joined Jul 2006, 195 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4613 times:
I remember crystal clear when my father, former IB purser in long haul, got 7 days off in NYC, 9 days off in JNB, 6 days off in MIA, 8 days of in Toronto, a week in EZE ..... and so on.
Wonderful era.... 15 year ago!
Was nice going with him all over the world!
LVICS From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4548 times:
Quoting Ludavid777 (Reply 14): So the pairings can be killers, example, Houston - Buenos Aires.
Leave IAH to EZE 9PM arrive in EZE at 9:20AM the next day
Rest 11 hours then leave that same night back to IAH at 9:50pm arrive in IAH at 6:20am the next day.
I'm really surprised. I have nothing to do with the airline business (maybe that's why I'm so wrong), but I never imagined the cabin crew had to work on two consecutive overnight flights. You probably know most flights from Europe and USA to EZE are overnight, arriving in Buenos Aires in the morning; I always thought people working on those flights spent the following night at a hotel room (sleeping in a real bed) and departed next day, staying here for something like 30 hours. Or maybe this is just for Continental and other airlines do it in a different way?
Pacifique75 From Portugal, joined Oct 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4470 times:
LVICS, I was also surprised to hear CO crew only have a 11-hour rest during the day in EZE and then fly back to the US that same evening. Like you said, they dont even spend 1 night in bed but just have their rest period "in daylight".
In Portugal, that would not be possible as we cannot do 2 consecutive night flights - like the pattern CO operates to EZE.
I guess some restrictions are dictated by the government (national civil aviation) but then individual airlines might have a
crew agreement with further limitations. For ex., the European Union law states that on shorthaul we can fly up to 6 sectors in a day, however my company flight operations manual says we are not to be rostered more than 4 sectors a day
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 1834 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4256 times:
Quoting Ludavid777 (Reply 14): So the pairings can be killers, example, Houston - Buenos Aires.
Leave IAH to EZE 9PM arrive in EZE at 9:20AM the next day
Rest 11 hours then leave that same night back to IAH at 9:50pm arrive in IAH at 6:20am the next day.
Ok now this really slavery that you don't get 24 hours rest after such a flight. But in the USA working as an FA is also after all the loses of ppriviliges for european airlines still there a tuffer job.
Don't crews do East Coast USA to West Coast USA and return on the same day even if one of the legs is a red eye?
Fly4zip From United States, joined Nov 2001, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
LVICS is correct. I am an international flight attendant for CO. We also have the same sort of schedule for our EWR-GRU-EWR trip. Leaves EWR at 2205 Arrives GRU 0945 Sleep during the day then Leave GRU at 2205 Arrive back in EWR at 0600. Time away from base is 33:40. Flight time is 19:05.
Don't feel sorry for us. This is a highly sought after trip and goes very senior.
26 LXA340: How does it work if your inbound flight is delayed 2-3 or even 1 hour the outbound flight will need to be delayed as I would assume that a minimum of
27 AASTEW: AA's JFK-GRU is paired the same way as CO's EWR-GRU trip. We often see CO crews at breakfast upon our arrival. Those trips often go very senior! AASTE
28 AirplaneBoy: I also think it's important to remember that US crewmembers are paid based on flight time/block time and are not salaried like some European carriers.
29 Fly4zip: AirplaneBoy is right. It is all about productivity. If the EWR-GRU-EWR trip was changed to a 30 hour layover, the seniority on it would drop about 15
30 Gman3: I am a United flight attendant and I hope we don't merge with CO under those conditrions!! LOL. We have many different length layovers domestic and i
31 Rouge: I can see that for some "Long Haul Flights" depends on the journey and for some others depends on the flight time, can you tell me if that's right? Do
32 Fetheroleather: It all boils down to what employees are accustomed to doing.At CO we have unlimited trip trading and a lot of flexibility.Untied does not have nearly
33 Rouge: Is there someone from Lufthansa or Air France how could give us its points of view? Do you think low costs (may be like South West and others) have th
34 JetJeanes: At Swiss International Air Lines you usually work 6 days in a row when flying within europe and days can be up to 12 hours long this is followed by a
35 LXA340: Trust me it is, the crews are complaining like crazy. On the other hand out of a comerical point of view LX has one of the best cost structures curre
36 KLMCedric: I'm an FA with KLM and the only thing I can say is that when I compare with all other airlines we have dream conditions, seriously. We have bunks and
37 Airnewzealand: WOW KLMCedric, You sure do have it good! I wouldnt be complaing at KLM! Nice, Keep the conditions! Cheers
38 DTWAGENT: Well that would explain the bad service on US PHL-DUB-PHL then. These people must be dead on their feet. But, times have changed. Chuck
39 Standby87: My source is an ex-Swissair MC, so she obviously keeps in touch, but maybe she's wrong on LAX and it's 2 nights for the crew there isof 1. I have to
40 BAStew: BA - Will do my best to summarise the scheduling agreement but even I still don't really understand it Lol. It is all contained in a 79 page agreement
41 IAirAllie: Over 40 responses seems like they are getting plenty of answers. At my company we get minimum rest of 14 hours for international trips reduceable to
42 EWRCabincrew: One of the reasons CO has such lenient scheduling is the flight attendants want that productivity. We are not capped with regards to hours and we want
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