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AA Flies Just 5 Pax ORD-LHR, Eco Groups Angered  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11378 posts, RR: 52
Posted (6 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 24713 times:


Happened after a flight was cancelled, all but 5 could be reaccommodated. So they flew the 777 with 5 people. Wow.

Makes sense though.

Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
169 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24663 times:

Ah, you just beat me!

I love flights like this. It's a great byproduct of a system that tries to predict and plan for absolutely everything, but misses by just a bit leaving loose ends to be tied up.

User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24579 times:

I consider myself to be pretty green, but if AA cancelled flights due to low bookings there would be a revolt among passengers. As Robert Crandall once said at a President's Conference in Hartford that I attended, "A deal is a deal." and he would not cancel a flight due to low bookings.

If you have an aircraft go out of service then it makes sense to cancel the flight that has the lowest number of bookings and most alternatives to reaccommodate passengers, but to cancel a flight simply because it is not heavily booked would be wrong.

Also when you are talking about the overall load of the flight you need to examine passengers and cargo on both the outbound and return legs.


Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6572 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24560 times:

Didn't BA do this same thing last year for re positioning flights?

God these eco people are really annoying sometimes. Stuff happens, you know? It's not like AA wanted to throw that cash away intentionally.

User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24522 times:

Morons. The heavy loads mentioned in the article mean that the overall load factor was probably close to 50%. Hardly ideal, but come on...

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24441 times:

This article doesn't read quite right. Its states that "AA were forced to cancel one out of 4 daily flights". I think "forced" is the wrong choice of word. It sounds more like AA due to low demand on that day, attempted to operate the flight as cargo only, but it didn't quite come off.

User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24439 times:

What about the pax on the other end of pond coming back?

How happy would they have been when the airplane didn't show up?

The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11689 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24362 times:

With each passing day, I find myself more and more wishing these environuts would just go away.

User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24330 times:

That flight was going to go ANYWAY! So whether it was full or had only 5 people, what does it matter? Eco nuts should start advocating for less tiny commuter flights that leave every 15-30 minutes.

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2369 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24281 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 6):
What about the pax on the other end of pond coming back?

How happy would they have been when the airplane didn't show up?

Exactly! People quickly forget that the airline most likely needs the aircraft at the other end station.

And I say it again, AA is a media target these days. This situation is not limited to AA alone. And I know it is the largest, but something is just not right here.

"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24181 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 9):
Exactly! People quickly forget that the airline most likely needs the aircraft at the other end station.

Not to mention the fact that there was cargo in the hold that could not be easily re-accomodated.

BTW, It was nice AA put them all in Business class. I wonder if the 777 had the new seats?

Charles, SJ

The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineTurk223 From Barbados, joined Aug 2003, 399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24111 times:

When I worked with AA back inthe late 80s, I remeber DC-10s POP-SJU with less than 10 passengers....

And I'll never forget when I worked at DFW with AA, I was the gate agent for a DFW-SBA flight with 3 passengers. We could have boarded each passebger by name!: "Mr. Jones, you're welcome to board at this time..."

The F/As looked so gloomy knowing they had over 3 hours with nothing to do...

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 24003 times:

5 passengers on a 777.....nice if you're a non-rev trying to get on that flight.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 24003 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 6):
What about the pax on the other end of pond coming back?

Exactly. Good bet the return flight wasn't empty, I'd wager. People tend to forget that when their plane arrives somewhere, it doesn't just fall off the face of the earth, but has to take care of other customers going the other direction.

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23979 times:

What I cannot understand is why the "Greenies" always pick on airline travel. Do they not realize, that other than electric rail, (and that's a big if, because we use coal for electricity), flying to your destination via an airline is the most economical and most environmentally friendly way to travel. Do they not look at the amount of fuel per passenger mile that these high-tech planes use? I mean, if you are going to be mean about it, go after the auto industry and demand that they produce better gas mileage engines, or blow up and burn all the SUV's that you can, but I still cannot understand their "beef" with airlines!? It makes no sense whatsoever.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23976 times:

Quoting B757capt (Reply 6):
What about the pax on the other end of pond coming back?

How happy would they have been when the airplane didn't show up?

That is one reason Crandall gave to smash the myth that airline scancel flights just cuz of light loads.....what if all the return flights from LHR we already oversold????

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23900 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
With each passing day, I find myself more and more wishing these environuts would just go away.

Especially in the UK eco is like a religion, i mean with a leader like rowan williams can you really blame them for abandoning christianity? But it is become a fascist religion

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 14):
What I cannot understand is why the "Greenies" always pick on airline travel

Cuz airtravel supports the global capitalistic system.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 14):
Do they not realize, that other than electric rail, (and that's a big if, because we use coal for electricity), flying to your destination via an airline is the most economical and most environmentally friendly way to travel.

They realize it, they dont care. You assume that the environment is their number one concern. When in fact they are at heart, haters of the human race.

User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23860 times:

What makes me most upset about the environmental movement is that they are focusing their anger at commercial aviation, not biz jets.

Business aircraft make far more "positioning" flights with no seats occupied than commercial aircraft do. This makes them far less efficient on a seat occupied basis.

If the environmental lobby really wants to make a difference, they should try to encourage pop stars to fly commercial airlines, instead of chartering a biz jet to take them from New York to the Caribbean, having the biz jet fly empty back to New York, then flying the route in reverse when their holiday ends. Changing this sort of behavior would save much more energy than making a father feel guilty about buying tickets on Jet Blue to take his children to Disney World would.

Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23858 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 14):
What I cannot understand is why the "Greenies" always pick on airline travel.

It is somewhat ironic that they regularly pick on air travel "because the planes don't fly full" when the industry average load factor is probably about 75% Here in the UK you can regularly see buses and trains at off peak times where the load factor is way below 10%. This is worse than their other favourite obsession, single occupancy cars; where the load factor is 20%

User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23747 times:

Last June my Delta flight was cancelled out of GRU to ATL. They got most passengers out on a Continental flight. The DL plane with problems was grounded and was rescheduled for the following day. I got the word from DL before I left my home so I had no idea DL was rebooking on CO only cancelling. When I went to the airport the next day, it was cancelled again. I was told it was an engine problem and they would not be able to get the 767 repaired til the next day when their folks from Atlanta could fly down. However, me and the other 4 did get on that night's DL flight. DL had a "spare" plane in Sao Paulo for 3 days.

I was told had the plane been ready, it would have been me, the 4 others and the crew. I prayed so hard!

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8386 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23722 times:
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Who knows what the load was on the incoming flight and the next flight of that 777. They could be 75% full. 5 passengers in bad, but how many would be effected beyond the one flight cancellation.

User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23661 times:
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The nine-hour Boeing 777 journey from Chicago to Heathrow used 22,000 gallons of fuel and produced 43.2 tons of carbon emissions.

So I wonder how many Greenpeace protesters would have to be shot to reduce greenhouse emissionsby 43.2 tons?

I've often wondered that. Eco people mean well, but they don;t have the right to claim they know better, as this article implies.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 2):
I consider myself to be pretty green, but if AA cancelled flights due to low bookings there would be a revolt among passengers

Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23596 times:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Eco Groups Angered

Probably the same whack-job Eco-terrorists that burned down the houses in California.

The green-weenies need to shut-up and hold their breath to stop emitting so much carbon dioxide......

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23598 times:

The reason they don't pick on lightly loaded buses and trains is that public transportation is required if we want to minimize the number of cars on the roads. I guess they figure you have to take the good with the bad.


Too bad they don't apply that same logic to anything else! Air travel is clearly necessary, because it's one of the few completely critical parts of our modern society, alongside electricity. Guess what people will start ignoring first if the economy tanks? That's right, environmental concerns.

We should start punishing people for being wasteful when there are alternatives, not when there aren't any.

Edit: ah, who am I kidding. They probably don't protest buses because the government pays for their tickets, whereas the social security handout isn't large enough to let them enjoy life in Thailand.

[Edited 2008-03-05 08:37:20]

User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 23486 times:

Quote from said article: "With such a small passenger load we did consider whether we could cancel the flight and re-accommodate the five remaining passengers on other flights. However, this would have left a plane load of west-bound passengers stranded in London Heathrow who were due to fly back to the US on the same aircraft. We sought alternative flights for the west-bound passengers but heavy loads out of London that day meant that this was not possible."

The so-called environmentalists are complete muppets - only chosing to see half of the picture! If they had an east-bound flight with 5 pax on board and a return westbound flight that was full, the overall load factor over the two segments was just over 50%. That's not too bad at all in off-season, in my opinion!


25 LAXdude1023 : Probably because the Airline Industry is an easy target. You can target a specific airline and its known that airlines use alot of fuel. Its obvious
26 Fxramper : There was a 777 at LHR on standby on the day in question. AA cancels low capacity flights and rebooks passengers on same route flights all the time.
27 Post contains images ChrisNH : Then you ought not build a new home in the Seattle area
28 QatarA340 : These environmentalists should contribute their part in saving the world by closing thier big mouths and stop releasing CO2 in the air. This should sa
29 Manfredj : Listen, it's really simple. AA is a business. They may choose to do whatever they want. As soon as the government starts telling businesses what they
30 B757capt : With a crew to fly it?
31 Ikramerica : News flash. UPS, DHL and Fedex fly hundreds of flights a day and rarely ever carry passengers. What a waste! They must be stopped. That is all.
32 IAHAAPlatinum : I flew from ICT to DFW late on a Sunday evening about two years ago, as the only passenger on an MD-80. I wondered what was going on when I didn't see
33 FXramper : At any given time there are 15 crews on layover at London. A sub crew, a delayed flight, and a call from crew scheduling to fly an additional crew ov
34 Phxpilot : Many years ago, late 80's, I flew a NW B742 from MSP to PHX. Only ~40 pax on board. It was great. I had all the seats from door 3 on back to myself. T
35 Post contains images AA767400 : Yeah that is awesome for passengers. I once had six passengers only on SEA-SNA and we put them all up front and gave them a great service. Granted it
36 Vasu : I find that the UK media gives way too much attention to these Eco-warrior people... more and more... It's really getting boring now!
37 PlaneHunter : Why don't these guys better complain about certain individuals (and whose family and staff) flying around (frequently) on VIP widebodies? PH
38 PlateMan : I would have love to been on that flight. 5 people on a 777. Like a private huge jet.
39 PilotRecruit : hahaha! Shhhh, the eco-greenies might find out...
40 Cubsrule : I'm not quite sure why you find this behaviour so scandalous. While there are certainly times when it's a huge inconvenience, on a high frequency rou
41 ElmoTheHobo : Such hypocracy. It's fine for them to burn down luxury homes, which emitted huge amounts of CO2, but they throw a fit if a plane is flown across the e
42 Killjoy : What are you going on about? Not only is this completely off topic, but businesses are in fact already quite strictly regulated and always have been.
43 Cubsrule : So we should re-regulate air travel? It seems like that might make the problem worse...
44 Boeingmd82 : One morning I was booked on a flight from HNL to LIH with 5 other passengers. They kindly asked us to sit in the first class cabin of the B717 to keep
45 Chase : I hate how you can take a bunch of people who believe in an idea that's good (or at least lawful and not harmful to anybody else) such as environmenta
46 JettaKnight : Would they eco folks have been happier if AA had held back some of the passengers they rebooked so that they could have two flights that were approxim
47 Captaink : When I worked in GND, we sent off a JM A320 with 9 passengers to JFK. But sometimes this has to happen, because canceling the flight, may result in an
48 DAYflyer : I once flew on a Braniff 727 from DFW-MCI-MSP back in 1981 and we only had 2 pax on the flight. It was kinda nice to sit up front but I couldn't help
49 PRAirbus : Get a life!!! What to they pretend? To ground the aircraft and strand other paxs creating a domino effect???? Most airlines do fly empty jets to ferry
50 Tonymctigue : I would have loved to be on that flight. I am presuming that safety regulations would require a full compliment of flight attendants regardless of the
51 IFEMaster : Why was the original flight canceled? Clearly it wasn't tech, since the aircraft flew anyway. And since the aircraft flew anyway, why the need to rebo
52 ZBBYLW : I love being on empty flights. A few years back I flew YYZ-POP on a 321 with AC. There were only 7 of us on the flight! I think the eco-people should
53 GivenRandy : One thing that cracks me up is when greens fly to Norway to see the "endangered" fjords. Ironic. BTW, I am in favor of all of us trying to reduce poll
54 Post contains images IronDuke08 : Just keep them away from private aviation...hehe Talk about an easy target, a G550 with 5 people on a long haul. About 6000 gallons/43000 pounds of Je
55 Salomon : That sure is a lot of hate! Had the flight been cancelled, they would have written an article about 300 passengers stuck in LHR...
56 ACW367 : In 2004 I flew on an AA 777 LHR-ORD. When we got to the gate the departure lounge seemed empty. I decided to count the number boarding and we boarded
57 Super Em : Like others have said, i'm sure there was plenty of cargo in the belly to justify the flight. Wonder how mad the environmentalist would be if they kne
58 Jbernie : First thing I thought of. How about all the high risk prisoners that get flown around on corp. jets? Bet the greenies would go nuts over that until o
59 Flighty : If there is any airline that knows how to handle its operations, it is AA. They have dispatch and operational planning squared away. If they decided s
60 Access-Air : Exactly....Whether they had the passengers on the outbound flight, that plane had to be there for the retunr trip home. WHy punsih those on the other
61 Jawed : I know for a fact that the Google jet (a 767) frequently flies from the Bay Area to New York with just a couple of people on it, usually for a pick up
62 Jawed : there was enough time for soup between HNL and LIH?
63 Jetblueguy22 : Me too. They need to get some jobs. They complain and complain about planes and yet they only produce 3% of the world's emissions. Its like going for
64 RwSEA : I disagree with these "environmentalists" on this issue, but there's certainly worse instances of flying empty planes around if they wanted to get all
65 Post contains images Fruitbat : The world wouldn't come to an end if the Air Travel industry disappeared tomorrow. Probably lots of unemployment (including me FWIW) and downstream e
66 Cytz_pilot : Yeah, holy cow! Environmentalists are just one side of a large equation (and I think the other side is far scarier). But you have to have a far right
67 Super80DFW : Did they all get upgraded to F? I would hope so..
68 Post contains images DL763 : That sounds real fun! Do you get more food and drinks on flights like these? More time to not be so rushed by others wanting to order and use the bath
69 Post contains images KELPkid : Question- How did they even find out the flight loading? Did an AA station sympathetic to their cause blab out "Hey, yeah, there's only 5 people on th
70 Post contains images RJ111 : That's not really accurate. The fact is flying is a rather inefficient mode of transport. Both electric and diesel train comfortably trounce the airc
71 DavidByrne : My goodness, aren't A-netters a sophisticated bunch! I don't believe that the Green movement is "picking on" aviation; in my experience they're activ
72 Sampa737 : It's just another case of one group misunderstanding the other. One side doesn't get their facts straight; the other side overreacts. There are so man
73 NwAflyer07 : Ok only 5 pax on a 777. Whats the big deal? Personally, i think thats sweet especially for those people. You know how many planes fly empty each day f
74 Post contains images OPNLguy : I guess that means that we shouldn't mention to them that there are also position ferries, charter ferries, maintenance ferries, test hops, and pilot
75 Post contains images MCIGuy : If we really wanted to get serious about fuel burn and environmental issues we'd do away with F class altogether.
76 Post contains images Ebs757 : "We sought alternative flights for the west-bound passengers but heavy loads out of London that day meant that this was not possible." Some people nee
77 ElmoTheHobo : British Airways isn't state owned. But I'd venture to say that state owned carriers have little incentive to improve themselves to attract more passe
78 Post contains links DavidByrne : Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 77): They should be ridiculed. Biofuels are the biggest environmental scam of the decade. Sure it reduces our reliance of o
79 WESTERN737800 : To all the econuts. That airplane has a sechedule it HAS to stick to. How do the econuts get themselves from London to JFK? by using their arms and fe
80 A380US : Honestly maybe this flight wasted a lot of money but many other flights technically save the earth by flying lets say driving 200 cars (times many tim
81 Post contains links Jawed : If we want to cut oil usage we should start with places where it's truly being wasted. For example the US Department of Defense, or as it should be ca
82 Post contains images Sketty222 : Yeah IIRC there was a 747 JFK-LHR with 2 or 3 pax on it Because they are crazy nuts and a little bit OTT made me laugh In the UK they did. They gave
83 BristolFlyer : Unfortunately you can't run these types of vehicles on much other than oil.
84 DavidByrne : Here's a radical idea: let's stop running them altogether, and invest the money we save in something productive . . . ?
85 Jawed : Exactly. The point is that we didn't need 99% of the things the US military has "accomplished" in the last 60 years (ie killing mostly innocent civili
86 Flanker : i only need to say that its non of their business what AA does and how it does it, or any other company for that matter. ive had it with these environ
87 Post contains images Fbgdavidson : I think what ecomorons tend to forget is: 1) AA wouldn't have flown it across the pond just for the hell of it! They are in the business of making mon
88 Post contains images WunalaYann : Now this is a generalisation if I ever read one. Come on. I understand that you may be frustrated by some loud environment-lovers but to call all of
89 BeechNut : Hmm. I wonder what was in the cargo hold. Medical isotopes perhaps? Other time-sensitive medicines? Tons of Really Useful Stuff? Are these eco-fascist
90 AA777 : I dont really mind the 'green' people as they have good intentions... but I think their argument is silly in this case as AA would have had to ferry a
91 Flanker : Its exactly what they are, eco nazis with an agenda to send us back into caves or mud huts. And sadly, people everywhere are bending over for these w
92 Cytz_pilot : Whaaaaa? Fascists and nazis? I'm reading through a whole forum thread full of posts plastered with anger and hatred towards these people people becau
93 Luvfa : In spite of the low pax load, AA probably more than made up for it by carrying xtra cargo. So it may not have been a total loss for them. I remember y
94 DavidByrne : Precisely my point some posts ago. I'm getting the impression that eco-fascist = bad aviation fascist = good I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the hate th
95 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : I guess it all depends on how many you can find and what rocks they are hiding under or trees they are off hugging. Extremist radical thinking always
96 Post contains images WunalaYann : Last time I checked, Nazi dignitaries never lived in caves or mud huts, and they certainly never wanted to. My point is that if they are the Nazis th
97 CALPSAFltSkeds : Stupid. Airlines don't fly airplanes empty without good reason. How about all the sports charters and other charters that require a ferry to position
98 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : The enviro-guys also don't seem to know that the planes do carry cargo as well, so the flight was for more than just 5 passengers. They also don't se
99 ABQopsHP : Im an enviro guy, but Im also pragmatic and practical. The media, and the environmentalist talk before knowing the facts. They have no idea how many a
100 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : A sorority house in the sky?
101 SkyguyB727 : When AA's F/A's went on strike in the mid-1990s, AA flew their full schedule but without any passengers. They flew empty airplanes (except for a littl
102 Mikefad : First of all ......is there any such thing as someone who is anti-environment? I hear all the time " I'm for the environment, blah blah blah....." . I
103 DavidByrne : . . . and you could apply exactly the same argument to the preaching of aviation zealots when they begin a discourse on environmental issues.
104 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : Just think if they knew about delivery flights..... or the flights of the old gas guzzlers to Mojave....
105 SJC4Me : If there was only 1 pax on board, I wonder if they would let him/her sit jump seat.
106 Post contains images DCA2011 : What???? Next thing you know you'll be saying the Oscars are political!! Say it aint so!!!
107 SJC4Me : Why couldn't the 'accomodated passengers' who were told their flight was canceled be on this flight?
108 ElmoTheHobo : I stand corrected for Air NZ example, I was under the impression that they were using the VS fuel. Virgin's little bio-diesel stint is more of the sa
109 Ikramerica : They likely left on earlier flights. That's what it sounded like. it sounded like they sent this 777 later with the 5 people because they needed to p
110 57AZ : Easy. Air transportation is the least energy efficient form of transportation in terms of amount of cargo/passengers carried per mile per unit of ene
111 DavidByrne : Thanks, Elmo, for injecting a bit of intellectual rigour into an otherwise sterile discussion. I'm also interested to hear what some of those who've
112 BAW716 : Unfortunately, the operational need overrides the commercial need in some cases. I have been on transatlantic flights that have had less than 10 passe
113 Post contains images Flyin5glow : I do consider myself a green guy (i'm from Seattle) but come on, this morons should concentrate more on the car industry. They could protest GM for ma
114 Tjc2 : Very good point tbh. Although AFAIK delivery flights often take cargo? I love it how these groups chose what seems easy to criticise and don't look a
115 Halls120 : Same here. I had a similar experience on September 11, 2002. A lot of people didn't want to fly that day, and I was on an Austrian flight from VIE to
116 Bardoman : From the article posted by the thread-starter: "Governments must stop granting the aviation industry the unfair privileges that allow this to happen b
117 Mikefad : Same to you and I said it first and I can't hear what you're saying LAALAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! just joshing. I think the enviro/green philosophy is e
118 Ikramerica : Monty Burns. Or gosh forbid, aircraft test flights! That's a sticky wicket. You need to test planes for thousands of hours to certify them. That's ev
119 Par13del : Let me say this very carefully, I am surprized that no one in this whole thread has come to the defense of the Eco stance, usually there is someone to
120 Mikefad : Biggest contributer to U.S. emissions is by far coal-burning electric production. But , you won't hear the enviro-crowd bring this one up , since you
121 Mikefad : [quote=Mikefad,reply=120]I do consider myself a green guy (i'm from Seattle) I guess 'Gazoo' must have been from Seattle too. Do you have a crash helm
122 MaverickM11 : Who gives a flip what the "Friends of the Earth" have to say anyway? If they want to reduce CO2 output they can all stop breathing for all I care.
123 DavidByrne : Hmmm, the idea that the earth will somehow "self-regulate" is a bit of wishful thinking usually promoted by people who know that what they're doing i
124 WunalaYann : I think your point is valid to a certain extent. I understand why someone would ignore someone else's opinions. But then you say that Which is an ent
125 MaverickM11 : Why? Their position is pretty much that any type of human progress should be sacrificed for the sake of the earth. I say lead by example.
126 Post contains images Wunalayann : Define progress. Don't get me wrong, I personally certainly do not think that going back to the Middle Age is a good thing AT ALL. But YOUR idea of p
127 MaverickM11 : Do they think AA wanted to fly an empty plane? Do they think AA actually likes spending billions of dollars on fuel? Are they supposed to leave anoth
128 DavidByrne : First, this is a gross mis-representation of what environmentalists are saying. Everyone wants progress; there are, however, different definitions of
129 DavidByrne : (Deleted because inadvertently repeated)[Edited 2008-03-06 14:31:35]
130 DavidByrne : . . . and it's much easier to sling mud at people than to engage with them if their views have financially unpalatable consequences for you.
131 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Yeah, it's a bit like environmentalist whack jobs telling us how to live our life, like banning DDT and condemning thousands to death from malaria bu
132 AJMIA : I think you are 100% on the mark here. I imagine someone at the Telegraph found out that a 777 arrived from ORD with only five passengers onboard. Th
133 MaverickM11 : That's probably also true, and if they or the media ever bothered to offer a "oops we didn't get the whole story, turns out we were way off, here it
134 Post contains images WunalaYann : I am with you all the way. But I disagree here. They go after airlines because it is much easier and much more righteous from a citizen perspective t
135 Cytz_pilot : Ha ha, I think humans ceased to be 'a mere speck in the eye of old Mother Nature' when we created weapons which have the potential of decimating all
136 WunalaYann : It is not a car either. Could you please elaborate? Especially the "if not interfered with" part... By what? By whom? How? Isn't that what the tree h
137 DavidByrne : Actually, I don't think that's true, either. The problem with this discussion is that it is too easy to generalise what "econuts" or "tree-huggers" o
138 Post contains images WunalaYann : I cannot not agree more so I will not. You are asking for no black & white thinking. Do you believe in Santa Claus as well? More seriously, I think y
139 Post contains links LonghornDC9 : You all may find this thread I started last night interesting. It has actual factual data on airlines and energy (and it turns out that they are not h
140 WunalaYann : Who said they were?
141 Mikefad : If earth did not "self regulate", for lack of a better term , we wouldn't even be here. The wishful thinking is on the part of scientists, politician
142 WunalaYann : Can you define the term "self-regulate"? Do you mean it in the sense that nature always gets its revenge? Forget global warming. Let us talk about po
143 DavidByrne : If that's referring to me, you've got it completely and utterly wrong, mate. I'm far from being an ideologue, as a mediator and conflict resolution p
144 FlyASAGuy2005 : Exactly. I can tell you that they did not fly for 5 passengers, kinda like how the article was making it look. It was for the return flight that was
145 Mikefad : The liberal opinions come in all the wide ranging shades of the 'rainbow', reflecting their 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity' . Fitting for the self-an
146 Mikefad : Also with the greatest respect , if I believe in something , I'm not going to worry about others criticizing my thoughts. I'm GLAD that idiots are ab
147 Mikefad : In the context of this argument , self-regulate would refer to the ability of the earth to survive wide variations in temperature and somehow still m
148 WunalaYann : Funny how insults come very quickly. When it is not nazis, it is fascists, when it is not fascists, it is idiots, etc. To the point of insulting thos
149 Post contains images Ikramerica : You really missed the whole point... Anyway, the problem with the whole global warming movement is that it is based on two false premises: 1. man is
150 Mikefad : Unless you're saying that you are an idiot , I'll have to assume that you are acting on the idiot's behalf. Or don't you agree that there ARE idiots
151 Post contains images WunalaYann : How so? He wrote: referring to people who believe that there is an issue with pollution/waste of non-renewable resources (again, I do not talk about
152 Mikefad : I guess you and old Bore are privy to how much oil is actually in the earth? Have all the interested parties quit exploring for new deposits since, a
153 Mikefad : I saw the menu for the flight.......... Succulent caged "Poultry Factory"Chicken with genetically modified corn fritters and MSG enhanced gravy ......
154 Post contains images Hightower : Good one! - looks like everybody else missed it... I'm sure most people doesn't realize flights carry cargo as well. I wonder why nobody in the news
155 OA260 : Cool flight to be on . Loads of space !!! Kudos for AA for looking after their passengers....
156 Post contains images WunalaYann : Of course not. But I can go online and look at "crude oil prices" and see "$104 a barrel" next to them. I still fail to see why you try to make this
157 Mikefad : Nobody else is crying about it.
158 Woodsboy : Its hard to believe that these crazies think that they JUST discovered the first ever positioing flight ever made in the history of the earth! These f
159 Mikefad : I don't think ANY time would be a good time to admit that. HOO HOOOOOOOO!
160 Tjc2 : So what will be the price of the final barrel of oil on earth? I don't think your statment has a datum. Having disscussed this issue, and the BA 747
161 Post contains images OURBOEING : Back in 2000, I flew from Detriot to Phoenix on a 757 and there were only 7 passengers At takeoff, the pilot stated that it was probably one of the li
162 Ckfred : A friend of mine is an AA pilot, and couldn't tell you how many 727s, 757s, and 767s that he has ferried in 19 years. Planes get out of position due t
163 DTWAGENT : I have a question here. I did some looking around last night and AA has 18 non-stop flights total to LHR. They are as follows: ORD = 5 all B777's DFW=
164 Post contains images Ikramerica : And people question the value of LHR vs. LGW. Before Open Skies, they still had 15 LHR flights. Combine with the massive number of BA flights around
165 Post contains images Ushermittwoch : I am sure they were all Federal employees of a certain kind. Just for safety measures. But seriously, it is PATHETIC how people on this board view peo
166 Ikramerica : Not buying everything an extremist special interest group says is not the same thing as viewing all people with an environmental conscience negativel
167 Mikefad : I don't know the social climate in Germany , but here in the States the so called 'green' movement has taken on a quasi-religious fervor. At some poi
168 Woodsboy : Id say that these particular people are crazies because they simply dont know about that which they are speaking. I consider myself an environmentalis
169 Ikramerica : Absolutely right. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" .....Martin Luther King, Jr.
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