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Continental 767-300?  
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Continental never had any 767-300 in scheduled service, but this particular plane (N394DL) continually gets referred to as "ex-Continental Airlines". All photos in the database, which go back to 1999, are of DL using this aircraft. What's the story on this?
Thanks

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35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3879 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8439 times:

NTU means "not taken up". CO ordered the aircraft but never had them delivered... this aircraft was delivered to DL instead.

User currently offlineAndrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8416 times:

This is only speculation and I am sure that others will correct me if I am wrong, but if you look at the Boeing costumer number it is 24 and I believe that 24 stands for the Continental Airlines. I would guess that COA ordered this plane, but then (while in production) they canceled the order and Boeing sold it to DAL or COA sold it directly to DAL.

I would like to know the real reason as well.  Smile

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers,
Andrej


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8404 times:

5 767-324ERs were built for, but never delivered to CO (nor, to my knowledge, were they ever painted in CO colors). They are:

MSN 27392, which flew for VN under a couple of registrations and is now with DP as G-OOBK
MSN 27393, same story as above, now G-OOBL (it looks like she also flew for AZ briefly)
MSN 27394, which is now N394DL and was previously with OZ as HL 7505
MSN 27568, which was also with VN and is now with DP as G-OOBM
MSN 27569, which flew for AN as VH-BZF and is now N767NA for NA

IIRC all 5 aircraft were owned by GECAS when built; all may still be.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

Ok, thanks I thought it was probably something like that. Seems like it shouldn’t be referred to as ex-Continental if they never even took delivery.

User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

It happens from time to time. Another example is UA's 747-451s originally intended for NW.


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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8338 times:



Quoting Junction (Reply 4):
Ok, thanks I thought it was probably something like that. Seems like it shouldn’t be referred to as ex-Continental if they never even took delivery.

I think they were canceled at a late stage in production as a result of CO's second bankruptcy filing in 1990. As already mentioned, three are now with UK leisure carrier First Choice, one with DL, and one with North American Airlines.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8102 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
nor, to my knowledge, were they ever painted in CO colors

The first one was.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3879 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8076 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
The first one was.

Any pics out there?


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8069 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
nor, to my knowledge, were they ever painted in CO colors

The first one was.

Now the quest becomes can we get a picture?  devil 


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3057 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8038 times:

thats weird that A/C has an addtional main cabin door-never seen it


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User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7993 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
thats weird that A/C has an addtional main cabin door-never seen it

That's true. In addition, the ex-Gulf Air -3P6ERs we fly have the addt'l door.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7993 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
thats weird that A/C has an addtional main cabin door-never seen it

There's a 3rd 763 door arrangement with the two forward passenger doors on each side and a large emergeny exit just behind the wing but no overwing exits. BA has that arrangement on their 763s.


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That door option and the one on the DL 763 originally intended for CO seemed to be more popular with airlines based outside North America. The size and number of doors/exits affect the maximum number of seats permitted.


User currently offlineEWRZone7C123 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7955 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
I think they were canceled at a late stage in production as a result of CO's second bankruptcy filing in 1990. As already mentioned, three are now with UK leisure carrier First Choice, one with DL, and one with North American Airlines.

Actually, it is my belief that they cancelled this order once Boeing designed the 767-400 for both Continental and Delta.


Hugh


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7850 times:



Quoting EWRZone7C123 (Reply 13):
Actually, it is my belief that they cancelled this order once Boeing designed the 767-400 for both Continental and Delta.

Nope, CO ordered a bushel of 737/767's under Louis Jordan's time (right after Lorenzo left). These either got deferred or cancelled (some planes already in the consturction lineup) during BK #2. The 764 order was a completely new order.



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1657 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

My one and only tour of the Boeing Everett facility was in July 1995. Out on the delivery line was at least one CO 767. I shot some poor-quality video that has a brief pan-over of the ramp, and you can see one of the Continental 767s parked. Unfortunately I didn't take any stills, and apparently not too many other people did, either.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7524 times:



Quoting Vasu (Reply 8):
Any pics out there?

Not on this (or the other, cough cough) database.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 15):
I shot some poor-quality video that has a brief pan-over of the ramp,

Good to know! Now I know that there is at least evidence of it having existed.

Quoting EWRZone7C123 (Reply 13):
Actually, it is my belief that they cancelled this order once Boeing designed the 767-400 for both Continental and Delta.

There's about a ten year separation between those two events.
The 764 was designed as a DC-10-30 replacement for CO and an L-1011-250 replacement for Delta.


User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7354 times:

N394DL came from Asiana with the CO interior still installed (all galley equipment said "Continental"). Everything has been changed to DL spec.

The -324 flying with North American still has the CO interior.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2434 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7246 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
Now the quest becomes can we get a picture?

I have a Wooster 1:200 model of a CO 767-300. I can post photos......  Wink



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineJetset7E7 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1090 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6262 times:

Quoting Rj111 (Reply 5):
It happens from time to time. Another example is UA's 747-451s originally intended for NW.
Virgin have 5 747-443's which were intended for Alitalia, but they never took delivery of them, and opted for the 777 instead.

Mark

[Edited 2008-03-06 08:52:43]


Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5936 times:

We were in bad shape cash flow wise; Gordon went to SEA cut a deal to cancel the order, get our deposit back from the -300's and pay our bills.
We promissed to give future business to Boeing, and the rest is late 90's history. The B767-300's saved our butts at that moment in time.


User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5926 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
thats weird that A/C has an additional main cabin door-never seen it



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
There's a 3rd 763 door arrangement with the two forward passenger doors on each side and a large emergency exit just behind the wing but no overwing exits. BA has that arrangement on their 763s.

KLM 767's had the similar door/exit arrangement

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User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5648 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
The first one was.



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 15):
Out on the delivery line was at least one CO 767. I shot some poor-quality video that has a brief pan-over of the ramp, and you can see one of the Continental 767s parked.

While I will await JohnJ's pan-over to prove me wrong, the first 767-324 that was for CO only was painted with the CO rudder as it emerged from the paint shop in overall all white w/a CO rudder. That was the closest one got to being fully painted. I believe a photo of it in this state appeared in Aviation Week and Space Technology during this time frame, but I don't have any of those magazines in my library.

JSD



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5541 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
Now the quest becomes can we get a picture?

A CO 767-300 pic would be fantastic!!

I remember CPair (not Canadi>n) had a few 767-200s on order before cancelling them. AC picked them up.
Sorry - none were built before order was cancelled though there are proably a few modified airliner drawings or digitally enhanced photos.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1657 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5189 times:



Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 22):
While I will await JohnJ's pan-over to prove me wrong, the first 767-324 that was for CO only was painted with the CO rudder as it emerged from the paint shop in overall all white w/a CO rudder. That was the closest one got to being fully painted.

I don't think I can prove you wrong as all I recall is the blue rudder - and even then I think only half of it was painted. I'll see if I can dig up the video and put it on YouTube.


25 RJ111 : Oooh yes please, i'm sure everyone would like to see that!
26 YVRLTN : So if the aircraft didnt actually go to CO, why didnt Boeing amend the code to 323 for DL? I didnt think the customer designator actually made any fun
27 Cubsrule : Boeing doesn't because it gets to be too big of a paperwork mess (and is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things). If you're going to do that, you m
28 Post contains links JohnJ : Prepare to be underwhelmed - I luckily inventoried my digitized videos so this one was easy to find. Unfortunately, I didn't realize the potential sig
29 USAirALB : What sec. do you see it at?
30 Post contains images RJ111 : It's around the 1:30 mark. Apparently  The commentator says it himself "you can barely see it"[Edited 2008-03-06 15:02:58]
31 FlyHoss : Yup, stop the video at 1:30 and look very hard at the rudder of the otherwise white 767. AWS&T had a photo with 3 or 4 white 763s with the CO rudder.
32 Post contains links Tjwgrr : 1:200 CO 763: http://www.airliners.net/uf/536872672/phpkWx6yq.jpg
33 RJ111 : Looks smart - nice collection there. Shame the plane never came about in the end. One final question, was the -300 order prior to the 767 (-200/-400)
34 Post contains images Flynavy : Ironically, the door layout on your 1:200 CO 767-300 model is not accurate with the -324ER customer option. It has the Delta exit configuration.
35 IAHcsr : They were ordered in the early '90s (Post Lorenzo, Pre Bethune)
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