BR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12160 times:
When one really looks at it, it seems like a nice plan.. Like a flying bus that departs every hour. But are there really enough people going to the shuttle destinations every day to keep this thing flying? And what about ticket prices? If this is really as successful as it seems, shouldn't tickets on the shuttle be $30.00 one way, considering it is a bus in the air.
I'm sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but frankly, I'm kind of stumped as to what the operation is really for.
Rbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12139 times:
The shuttle was originally designed to appeal to business/government travellers by offering frequent flights with no reservation required and a guaranteed seat at departure time. They also offered faster check in.
What it has morphed into, I don't know. I do know that trains between Wash DC-NY-Boston are getting more and more copmpetitive, and the time spent door to door may even be lower.
Since most passengers are business travellers, the fares could be higher than you standard "milk run" route.
COEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 603 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12113 times:
The shuttle was largely the creation of two pilots, who thought it would keep in service some aging aircraft, and some Eastern executives, who thought that a frequent no-reservation service would be popular with travelers between New York and Washington.
Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker, the founder of the airline, gave his blessing, and the shuttle made its debut on April 30, 1961, with 32 flights that day between Washington and New York. It carried about 640 passengers that day, and by now has carried more than 60 million.
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5337 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11935 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3): Unfortunately those items don't mention the beginnings of the Shuttle which originated with an Eastern Airlines idea in 1961.
It is true that Eastern did come up with the shuttle idea however the DL Shuttle came from PA and was started by PA . The US Shuttle originally was the Eastern Shuttle and was bought by Donald Trump from Eastern. Some loans were defaulted on by the shuttle and US was given the management contract of the shuttle by the banks. US bought it outright in the mid to late 90's.
Air Canada also operates a shuttle operation called "Rapidair" between Toronto and Ottawa/Montreal.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11893 times:
Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): But are there really enough people going to the shuttle destinations every day to keep this thing flying?
There are so many that a combination of air, rail and road transport can't soak up the demand.
Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): If this is really as successful as it seems, shouldn't tickets on the shuttle be $30.00 one way, considering it is a bus in the air.
The point has always been convenience, not price.
Quoting Rbgso (Reply 1): I do know that trains between Wash DC-NY-Boston are getting more and more copmpetitive, and the time spent door to door may even be lower.
Between NY and Boston and between DC and NY, I agree. Between DC and Boston, however, it is still markedly faster to fly. NY-Philly isn't even a contest, the train wins every time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21482 posts, RR: 24 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11895 times:
Quoting United1 (Reply 4): Air Canada also operates a shuttle operation called "Rapidair" between Toronto and Ottawa/Montreal.
AC's operation is just AC's normal domestic service and flights can be on anything from an Embraer to a 777-300ER. They've used the "Rapidair" brand name for those flights for years for marketing purposes but there's nothing unusual or distinctive about them, certainly nothing like the original LGA-DCA/BOS shuttle concept of no-reservations with backup aircraft.
Jfidler From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11850 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 6): The point has always been convenience, not price.
This is true. I used to fly on business DCA-LGA quite often, and they had a ticketing ATM basically. You just walk up, swipe your credit card, and it will sell you a ticket on the next departing flight. The whole transaction took less than 2 minutes, and was very convenient since I never knew how long my meetings would last. No reservations needed, and tickets were about $200 one-way at the time (this was 8-9 years ago I recall).
Zrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 2872 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11806 times:
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5): No. The Delta Shuttle is the New York Air Shuttle.
When Texas Air purchased Eastern, the DOT forced it to sell one of the shuttles. The NY slots were sold to PA.
I'm trying to piece together history from the mid 80's on....
Eastern and New York Air both offered BOS-LGA/ DCA-LGA shuttles.
People Express offered hourly BOS-EWR/ DCA-EWR service.
NY eventually scaled down LGA service in favor of EWR, right?
I think the Pan Am Shuttle began independently of the NY Shuttle, and it was later morphed into the DL Shuttle.
When DOT forced Texas Air to see the Shuttle, EA sold the LGA shuttle to Trump, which eventually became the USAirways Shuttle.
NY and PE were folded into CO, which kept the EWR service.
Dragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1160 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11771 times:
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 9): I'm trying to piece together history from the mid 80's on....
Eastern and New York Air both offered BOS-LGA/ DCA-LGA shuttles.
People Express offered hourly BOS-EWR/ DCA-EWR service.
NY eventually scaled down LGA service in favor of EWR, right?
I think the Pan Am Shuttle began independently of the NY Shuttle, and it was later morphed into the DL Shuttle.
When DOT forced Texas Air to see the Shuttle, EA sold the LGA shuttle to Trump, which eventually became the USAirways Shuttle.
NY and PE were folded into CO, which kept the EWR service.
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11706 times:
Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 10): You got a flow chart to go along with all that?
GoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2630 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11683 times:
Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter): If this is really as successful as it seems, shouldn't tickets on the shuttle be $30.00 one way, considering it is a bus in the air.
Doesn't it cost quite a bit more to get a jet going 450 knots than it does to get a bus going 65mph though?
Dragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1160 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11682 times:
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5337 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11680 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7): AC's operation is just AC's normal domestic service and flights can be on anything from an Embraer to a 777-300ER. They've used the "Rapidair" brand name for those flights for years for marketing purposes but there's nothing unusual or distinctive about them, certainly nothing like the original LGA-DCA/BOS shuttle concept of no-reservations with backup aircraft.
It's still the same basic idea high frequency service between major business destinations allowing business travelers to fly down in the morning have a meeting and return the same night. One can make a case that WN and UA operate "shuttle like" services between LA and the Bay Area. As for using special aircraft only DL does that US used to however they use the same configuration as mainline aircraft on there shuttle.
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11665 times:
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11649 times:
It's there because it's a profit machine. DL's and US's NE corridor shuttle routes* are the highest-yielding routes in the US. Short flights, decent if not terrific loads, and lots and lots and lots of high last-minute and walk-up fares.
*MQ and CO also have toeholds in the business, but DL and US are dominant.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
Rwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11632 times:
Dtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11594 times:
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 9):
I think the Pan Am Shuttle began independently of the NY Shuttle, and it was later morphed into the DL Shuttle.
NO. Why do I have to do this every time, please I was there:
"The Pan Am Corporation said yesterday that it would begin shuttle flights from La Guardia Airport to Washington and Boston on Oct. 1. It is entering the routes by buying slots and gates from the Texas Air Corporation for $65 million.
The sale is likely to clear the way for Texas Air to win Government approval for its $600 million purchase of Eastern Airlines, announced in February. That would create the nation's largest carrier.
It would also bring major changes - and more frequent flights - to the shuttle service, which is used by thousands of travelers daily. Merger Investigated
The Justice Department has been investigating the competitive effects of the merger of Texas Air and Eastern, primarily because Eastern's only competitor on the important shuttle routes is New York Air, which Texas Air owns.
Charles F. Rule, Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the antitrust division, said that the sale to Pan Am ''alleviates the only potential competitive problems associated with the proposed acquisition.'' If the Justice Department raises no objections, final approval of the Department of Transporation could come quickly."
"The Texas Air Corporation said yesterday that it had sold additional flight slots to Pan American World Airways for $9.8 million. The sale would make it possible for Pan Am to begin an East Coast shuttle service that would be competitive in frequency of flights with the Eastern Air Lines shuttle service.
The acquisition of 14 additional slots will enable Pan Am to operate 15 round-trip shuttles daily, the same as Eastern, from La Guardia Airport in New York to Logan International Airport in Boston and National Airport in Washington.
The slots, which are allocated by the Government, are specific times for each takeoff and landing at National and La Guardia airports. A Rejected Proposal
The sale of the slots is an attempt by Texas Air to reverse the rejection by the Department of Transportation of Texas Air's proposed acquisition of Eastern. New York Air, which also offers shuttle service on the East Coast, is owned by Texas Air, and the proposed Eastern deal raised concerns about maintaining competition on the shuttle routes."
BR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11588 times:
Quoting Rwy04LGA (Reply 18): I remember paying $35 each way between DCA-LGA in 1975
With inflation, how much would that be today? I remember my dad telling me in 1951, a pair of good shoes cost $25.00 and a box of Cracker Jacks cost him $0.05.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11507 times:
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11436 times:
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19): NO. Why do I have to do this every time, please I was there:
Dtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11413 times:
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 23): I stand by my statement in reply 16
And your statement is still wrong. You even point out sale of gates, Texas Air sold gates to PA for their shuttle ops.
Sure they started their own ops, but it was the purchase of Eastern by Texas Air and the sale of the NY shuttle slots that allowed PA to begin operations.
There was no competetion on the shuttle until NY came into the picture. The PA Shuttle was a direct descendent of the NY shuttle.
25 JFK69: I used to have a girlfriend in DC I would visit and I would buy a book of tickets. I think it was pay for 4 and get 1 free. I believe they have done a
26 United_Fan: Well,it must be doing good , or DL would have cancelled it during their bankruptcy.......
27 Flighty: No, the white zone is for unloading and unloading only. There is no parking in the red zone!
30 Lufthansa: You don't get out much do ya? It's business people lad. They go to nearby cities for the day and come home. It's cheaper to pay a bit more for a flig
31 DALMD88: I believe so. There are also real snacks. Last night it was an apple, a piece of Tillamook cheese with crackers, Pepperidge Farms cookies and a mint.
32 EA CO AS: Nice chart. By the way, EA flew DC9s, 727s and A300s on the shuttle - not A319s.
33 Jetdeltamsy: When Eastern was being dismantled, it was the Shuttle that was one of the most valuable assets of the company. It creates a steady stream of revenue.
34 DeltAirlines: I've paid $300 r/t on the Shuttle for a day trip...still comes out to a yield of 81 cents/mile which is not a bad intake at all. Plenty of people do t
35 Pilotboi: The A319 is actually there because that's what US Airways uses now. But I'll add the A300 to it, thanks!
36 Movingtin: So by your analogy- every airline that has ever bought gates or slots from another airline is now a decendant of the selling airline??
37 Apodino: They certainly are. DL and US are almost exclusively O and D, save for maybe a connection or two on the BOS-DCA leg for US. MQ is obviously an all RJ
38 JustPlaneNutz: Did not PA fly the A-310 on Shuttle routes initially? I remember it as an arms race kind of thing--EA flying A-300s and PA flying A-310s.
39 United_Fan: If you watch "The French Connection' movie,they take the LGA-DCA shuttle on EA,but its shown as a DC-8.
40 TwinOtter: I don't understand in what sense you think the shuttles are a "bus" relative to other flights. Quoted material follows: Both offer free wine, beer, c
42 Indio66: I fly the shuttle LGA to DCA about once a week. The walk up round trip fair is about $650. Its basically all business travelers who like the convienen
43 JGPH1A: BA used to offer true shuttle service (No reservations, turn-up-and-go) services domestically to MAN, GLA, EDI and possibly BFS. They had aircraft sta
44 SeaBosDca: Speak for yourself... I fly BOS-DCA with reasonable frequency and choose MQ when the fare is reasonable because of the single seats on the ERJs.
45 Pilotboi: Thanks - do you happen to have time frames when these were used?
46 Rbgso: Back in the early 70s, Eastern's shuttle used jets for the main service, but since you were guaranteed a seat if the jet was full they would roll out
47 PExDCA: This is accurate. PA moved the shuttle operation to the Marine Air Terminal prior to commencing operations because the gates they acquired from NY co
48 Brucek: Is the airctfat that DL use still the MD80's? Thanks, Bruce.
49 United1: Mostly MD-88s with a Embraer 170 flying a few flights. Used to be 727-200 moved to the 737-800 and finally the 737-300 before being changed into a MD
50 Timz: Suspect not. They did try the A300 LGA-BOS (for a short time EA and PA both scheduled hourly A300s to BOS) but I doubt they ever used the A310 regula
51 Pilotboi: Why don't they just make them take the next one? If they leave every hour. It may seem like some time for the passenger to wait - but seems more prac
52 United1: They fly the first flight of the day at 0600 from DCA-LGA and the last flight of the day from LGA-DCA, I'm assuming its due to the noise restrictions
53 DeltAirlines: That's exactly why - I don't believe the MD-80 is certified to take off before 7 a.m. at LGA. Hence, the early morning DL Shuttle schedule out of DCA
54 Rbgso: That was their marketing angle....they guaranteed you a seat if you showed up. I agree, it sounds like a waste today, but keep in mind jet fuel back
55 United1: I remember when they introduced the 738 and 319 on the route a big deal was made that you could now get to LGA an hour earlier.
56 Thesandbender: I was a consultant based out of DC and NYC for a few years and then worked for a financial company with offices in NYC and Boston for a few years afte
57 BA747400: I remember the last time i took DL Shuttle BOS-LGA; the seats seemed to have more pitch. The departure lounge seemed to be dedicated to the Shuttle me
58 Viscount724: Eastern's first type on the Shuttle when it started in 1961 was the L1049 Super Constellation which I think had already been retired from most other
59 BR715-A1-30: Damn shame it ain't like that today.
60 N1120A: Actually, a large portion of those tracks, particularly the ones in Rhode Island and Massachusetts, are capable of the fastest speeds on the line. Th
61 WorldTraveler: The US Shuttle carries more connections than DL. DL does not allow connections at LGA because of the different terminals but it has at BOS for those
62 LTBEWR: The Delta-US shuttle service between LGA and DCA has seen a decline in demand in recent years mainly due to the security and traffic delays, as well a
63 Timz: Between New Haven and New Rochelle they're not allowed to tilt. Elsewhere they do, tho FRA or somebody doesn't allow them their full curve capability
64 DALMD88: Nope, all the LGA-BOS flights are MD-88. The first is 600am. The only E70 flight in the shuttle system is the last flight from LGA-DCA and the first
65 LH423: DL is also an RJ on BOS-DCA. I'm not even sure it's a full Shuttle service on board. LH423
66 DALMD88: From the last flights I've taken it was just a normal comair flight.
68 Timz: MetroNorth (who owns the RR between New Rochelle and New Haven) says if two Acelas happened to pass each other on certain curves, with one Acela tilti
70 777WT: Not only that, there's a E70 on LGA-MDW routes. AA and DL do takeoffs just shy of 6am with MD-80's.
71 RobertS975: Eastern would often put L-1011s on the BOS-LGA shuttle runs the day or two before Thanksgiving as well as the Sunday afterward to accomodate the huge
72 AirlineBrat: According to this website...... http://www.kiac-usa.com/EALgfe.html "Eastern Airlines was the last major U.S airline to operate the Electra in regula
73 DeltAirlines: If you're referring to DCA, then that's wrong. First DCA-ORD on AA is a 650a M80 (much like the DL DCA-LGA Shuttle at 650a). AA uses a 737-800 on the
74 IndyWA: BOS used to get a late E70 from JFK but that stopped a few months back. The E70 doesn't serve BOS anymore. And yes, we do the first DCA-LGA and the l
76 Jetdeltamsy: While this is true, in later years it became common for Eastern or Pan Am or simply send their excess passenger loads to the other's next flight out
77 Tkseven: not a TRUE shuttle as they never had a back up aircraft for the 1710 GLALHR and always delayed the 1610 GLALHR back up to 1645/or until it was full i
78 Aisak: High speed trains will always win in these sort distances over the shuttles granted the frequency is high enough. You can see how has happened in Fra
79 FlyASAGuy2005: Anyone think shuttle service will get affected by Delta's "comprehensive changes" to include recently announced route closures, frequency reductions,
80 Splitz: There should be a rule on this website, that Wikipedia references should be EXCLUDED and not allowed. If you want REAL data, find it, but don't use Wi
82 FalconBird: How about Lockheed Electra's to begin with.
83 Rwy04LGA: When I was 17, I was a messenger for this HUGE law firm and I took the shuttle, roundtrip, at least 40 times (In one instance, twice in one day). Onc
84 FalconBird: We always had an extra aircraft and extra crew standing by just for that. An electra, with crew, could be ready to go on a moments notice. Kinda like
85 B6WNQX: QX offers free northwest beers and wines on their flights. Not a bad deal.
86 Viscount724: From the AS/QX website: Horizon Air Beverage Service An assortment of refreshments is offered on Horizon Air flights. On select flights, we serve com
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21482 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1488 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
