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DL, B6, NK, CO Granted Colombia  
User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8174 times:

Delta, JetBlue, Spirit, and Continental all have been given one daily flight. US and AA were denied service.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080305/us_colombia_flights.html?.v=1


FLY DELTA JETS
91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2983 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8143 times:



Quoting Delta4eva (Thread starter):
Delta, JetBlue, Spirit, and Continental all have been given one daily flight. US and AA were denied service.

I think that they should have provided the service to US or AA. NK has enough of Sth. America already. DOT needs to let some legacy carriers get in their. If I could change it, the award would go to US,CO,and AA, and maybe B6.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32202 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8136 times:

Great to see this happen so quickly. I'm very surprised how fast this award happened. I'm also surprised CO got it. I figured either NK or B6 would get two.


a.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8064 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
NK has enough of Sth. America already.

Have you looked at AA's route map recently for comparison?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
I'm very surprised how fast this award happened

Same here, the DOT normally isn't exactly known for fast decisions.

That said, I'm glad to see DL get their JFK-BOG rights. Granted ATL-MDE/Baranquilla (?) would have also been interesting markets, but JFK-BOG no doubt is a safer bet than the other two. After all, all those years of codesharing on the Avianca flight should give DL a good idea of what to expect.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32202 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8038 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Granted ATL-MDE/Baranquilla (?) would have also been interesting markets

ATL-CLO was the other one. Barranquilla is a very small market (less than 1M residents). Hence, it is now Open Skies and you don't see anybody rushing to fly there.

Some things to note:

*Seven of the frequencies are still pending a lawsuit that AA has against the DOT. While AA is likely to lose the lawsuit, IMO, the frequencies can't be finalized until the lawsuit ends. I do not know the current status of the lawsuit, nor do I know which seven frequencies they are other than that they are seven of the April frequencies (so either B6, NK, or maybe even a combination of both).
*Airlines usually get notice of when the decision is coming a day or two in advance. Now it makes sense why Spirit Airlines made FLL-CTG bookable late last night.
*Once everything is made final, expect American to announce daily MIA-CTG service to counter Spirit. Like Spirit, AA delayed announcing anything regarding service to Cartagena (which, while likely, is not 100% a go just yet) because of fear that it could further hurt their application (by allowing other airlines to further point AA's further dominance in the market). The capacity allocated to the additional MIA-BOG flight can now switch to MIA-CTG.

[Edited 2008-03-05 14:58:35]


a.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7975 times:

What city pair will CO be serveing with these new frequencies?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32202 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7967 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 6):
What city pair will CO be serveing with these new frequencies?

IAH-BOG/BOG-IAH redeye flights. Essentially, the 73G that currently RONs in Bogota will not be utilized.



a.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2983 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7963 times:



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):

Have you looked at AA's route map recently for comparison?

Yes, but there a legacy carrier.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7899 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 6):

What city pair will CO be serveing with these new frequencies?

CO will launch a 2nd Daily IAH-BOG flight;

In total this award gives CO;

EWR-BOG 1 daily 737-700

IAH-BOG 2 daily 737-700

IAH-CLO 4X's weekly 737-700



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7890 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):
Yes, but there a legacy carrier.

And?


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

assume the DL flight will be targeted beside the local US market for Europe connections with a night stop in BOG?


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32202 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7864 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
IAH-CLO 4X's weekly 737-700

I expect an airline to make a move for CO's four "seasonally" used IAH-CLO frequencies and demand that CO use-them-or-lose-them. Considering what happened with AA, it's only fair.

I won't be surprised if Spirit asks for these frequencies. While four of the frequencies do have a "seasonal" condition on them, that won't stop DOT from re-allocating them. Though CO will have right of first refusal, and if CO then says "okay, we will use them year-round," nobody can take them.



a.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7818 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I expect an airline to make a move for CO's four "seasonally" used IAH-CLO frequencies and demand that CO use-them-or-lose-them. Considering what happened with AA, it's only fair.

Would CO be allowed to do something like this, operate to CLO daily but from EWR and IAH.

IAH-CLO 4Xs weekly
EWR-CLO 3Xs weekly



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32202 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7812 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
Would CO be allowed to do something like this, operate to CLO daily but from EWR and IAH.

No. The frequencies must be forfeited if they are not used for a combination of IAH-CLO/MDE services.



a.
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Am I correct in assuming that B6 will due JFK-BOG, or could it be LAX-BOG?


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7737 times:



Quoting RW717 (Reply 14):
Am I correct in assuming that B6 will due JFK-BOG, or could it be LAX-BOG?

Neither, MCO-BOG. Might pay off to read the PR before posting  Wink .


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7678 times:



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Same here, the DOT normally isn't exactly known for fast decisions.

the first round of flights were available to be flown in Dec; this route award took way too long.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
*Airlines usually get notice of when the decision is coming a day or two in advance.

which also explains why AA pulled down its 3rd MIA-BOG frequency in the last couple days

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
I expect an airline to make a move for CO's four "seasonally" used IAH-CLO frequencies and demand that CO use-them-or-lose-them. Considering what happened with AA, it's only fair.

agree.. it should be "used or losed"

It will be interesting to see how much of an impact LFCs will have on the Colombia market. They do now hold a fairly high percentage of frequencies in a normally high fare market.

Of the network carriers, CO and DL are certainly becoming bigger players in Colombia which isn't great news for AA.


User currently offlineMpdpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7668 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
I think that they should have provided the service to US or AA. NK has enough of Sth. America already. DOT needs to let some legacy carriers get in their. If I could change it, the award would go to US,CO,and AA, and maybe B6.

What is the point of this statement? Why should the legacies be "let" in there? Have you looked at most of the service to South America, it is almost all legacy service. They are far from being "let" in there. In point of fact it is probably more likely the other way around, DOT should be "letting" other carriers in.

I will say that I think this is great. I would like to see someone challenge AA in South America.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3843 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7621 times:

are ya'll saying that b/c we fly seasonlly we should give up our CLO slot???


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7604 times:

yes we are. AA used its slots on a seasonal basis and only restarted service only when the DOT threatened to pull the authority on what became the 3rd MIA-BOG flight - and still defied the first order of the DOT to restart the service.

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7595 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
Yes, but there a legacy carrier.

And your point is? B6 should have not won the award IMO. Their award should have gone to US. US stands to profit from that more than B6 could ever hope to do.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 18):
are ya'll saying that b/c we fly seasonlly we should give up our CLO slot???

That's what they're getting at. Although I'm glad to see we got another slot.



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3843 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7536 times:

i think the slot to CLO would be more adventageous to the traveling public than to take it away and give it to a US and add a CLT-BOG, or another carrier's desire to fly to BOG................but thats just my  twocents 


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7506 times:

DL could argue that it could use the slot better flying MDE from ATL with it.

No asset as valuable as international frequencies should just sit unused. CO needs to take note.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21418 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7447 times:



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Same here, the DOT normally isn't exactly known for fast decisions.

In light of the recent events in the region, the administration is quickly acting to reward "democratic" Colombia to encourage them to resist Chavez. Only Monday Bush was talking about how great Colombia is and how horrible Chavez is. Not those words, but close enough, and encouraged action to open free trade with Colombia as a reward for their commitment to "freedom" or something like that.

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 21):
i think the slot to CLO would be more adventageous to the traveling public than to take it away and give it to a US and add a CLT-BOG

If IAH only makes sense seasonally, why would CLT be this magic flight that works year round? If airlines were forced to maintain all schedules equally year round, it would be a recipe for bankruptcy.

As for AA, have a lot of access to Colombia. Why does the largest airline automatically get more routes?

Anyway, Open Skies will be coming to Colombia eventually, so it will all be meaningless.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7448 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
I think that they should have provided the service to US or AA. NK has enough of Sth. America already. DOT needs to let some legacy carriers get in their. If I could change it, the award would go to US,CO,and AA, and maybe B6.

Enough of south america is a daily flight to LIM? CO isn´t even using all of their frequencias, and same goes to AA. US has nothnig on Colombia, a flight to CLT would to terrible.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
ATL-CLO was the other one. Barranquilla is a very small market (less than 1M residents).

Barranquilla is close to two million residents. 4th largest city in the country. But the market is indeed small, AA and AV have it well covered.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
MCO-BOG

We can all say goodbye to seeing AV in MCO.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 20):
US stands to profit from that more than B6 could ever hope to do.

Care to explain?

I think the allocations were faily given. AA should not loose the other 7 frequencies, as NK would surely get them, and, other that bringing low fares, NK will also mean very basic levels of service to the Colombian public. Others might start copying them in order to match the fares, not a good idea. B6, on the other hand, should have more frequencies.


25 MAH4546 : AA uses all their frequencies year-round since 13DEC07. Let's see how JetBlue does first. Avianca could do well, JetBlue will struggle. The market is
26 COflyerBOS : It's my understanding that when CO first started service to Bogota, it wasn't well received. However, CO didn't pull out and allowed the market to gro
27 MAH4546 : The route does operate year-round at least 1x weekly (Saturdays), though the point is that they don't use all seven frequencies year-round. Other air
28 SOUTHAMERICA : Well, I don't know about yields (they are probably good though), but IAH-BOG is often the international route with the best load-factor out of Colomb
29 SJOtoLIR : Not to be confused with their destinations in Central America: GUA, SAP, MGA, PTY and SJO. LIM is the current sole active station in South America. B
30 DTWAGENT : I don't think NK should have gotten it. They have enough routes to the Caribbean and South America as it is. It is nice to see DL, CO get the routing.
31 WorldTraveler : yes, I know what you have said..... I also know that I said AA would lose the frequencies and that has happened. If you honestly think AA is going to
32 MAH4546 : Can you read? From post 7: *Seven of the frequencies are still pending a lawsuit that AA has against the DOT. While AA is likely to lose the lawsuit,
33 WorldTraveler : keep holding onto your hope. It's a lost cause and everyone except you recognize it. Admit defeat and move on.
34 MAH4546 : What hope? I think that AA is going to lose the lawsuit, and I said so myself in post seven. Get over yourself.[Edited 2008-03-05 20:24:34]
35 Post contains images Apodino : NK is almost certainly going to rely exclusively on O and D traffic to make this work. And connection opportunities are only to a few cities. Same wi
36 WorldTraveler : Yes. We all know they wll because the DOT issued its ruling based on AA's defiance of the "use it or lose it" order that was issued months before the
37 777jaah : That was a surprise to me. I thought AB BOG-MAD would come second in that area. Agree. 3 years max. Cheers 777jaah
38 SOUTHAMERICA : BOG-MAD also consistently registers excellent loads, always above or around 90%. But given that IB recently went from 7x to 10x weekly, load factors
39 Summa767 : I also expect that, and NK is the most likely. In their application Spirit explained that they would be happy with 4 x weekly for FLL-MDE, so I expec
40 AA767400 : The DOT told them to use it, and AA used them on added MIA-MDE/BOG, and MIA-BAQ. Did you over look at that fact? AA heard the DOT and acted quickly.
41 Turk223 : ...please don't get angry, but I don't think it was necessary to use the quotation marks... Colombia IS a democratic country. Your emphasizing the wo
42 PRAirbus : AA's monopoly is shrinking...AA flew JFK-BOG 763 years ago and cancelled the route after a short period. I am sure DL will make money on it and make i
43 Icebird757 : Why should B6 not have won the award? Also why do you say that US stands to profit from that more than B6 could ever hope to do?
44 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : CM is likely catching a chunk of the market by means of CM MCO-PTY and then CM/P5 toward other destinations in Colombia: BOG, CLO, MDE, ADZ, BAQ, CTG
45 WidebodyLover : It would be interesting to see DL & AV at JFK. I assume that DL will use their B763s on that route to compete with AV's B767s. Does anybody know what
46 Summa767 : DL in it sapplications stated that they would operate the route with 183 seater B757s. AV current service is indeed operated with 767s, but a second
47 Ikramerica : I was thinking even sooner. Within 18 months-2 years. It will happen soon after the new president comes into office here, no matter which party he/sh
48 MaverickM11 : US has the feed in CLT that B6 could never hope to have at MCO; in fact MCO is a big station for B6 but provides very little connecting opportunity o
49 Flyingcat : B6 is going into MCo with the most uncertainty of any of the new Columiba routes. DL and CO have huge hubs to drum up passengers, NK has massive O&D a
50 MAH4546 : Very tough. O&D is small and connections are limited to non-existent. IMO, they would have perferred FLL-BOG, but it was obvious NK was going to get
51 Post contains images SABE : Maybe this will motive AA to start flying to Colombia from DFW... enough already with MIA!!! (sorry Mark, I just couldn't resist to beat that dead ho
52 Luisca : CM has a virtual Monopoly on Latin America-MCO besides Mexico, there is definately room for one more player since MCO is consistently one of CMs best
53 MAH4546 : That is the plan - 2x BOG, 2x MDE, 1x CLO, 1x BAQ. Also, while it is not official, 1x CTG effective 01JUN08 is looking likely. There is room for anot
54 Klwright69 : WOW. It is so interesting that CO received the authority! I recall many folks at a.net absolutely certain that CO had "zero" chance of receiving a new
55 Post contains images 777jaah : Lets wait for the Free Trade Agreement, that would certainly give it a boost. Somehow I think that all the oil activity that's going on in Colombia w
56 MAH4546 : Yes, I did. I also said it when there were only 21 frequencies up for grab, when it was obvious they were going to DL, B6, and NK. With 28, things ch
57 SOUTHAMERICA : Then it must be a long time since you last flew IAH-BOG, because the route's 2007 average load-factor was 85%. SA.
58 WidebodyLover : Summa767: Thanks for answering back. If AV is thinking about a second daily flight to JFK with Airbus A319s. What would be the time frames of that ser
59 TBYO787 : Where do you get this numbers? BAQ is almost 2M Inhabitants and probably more counting "Desplazados" TBYO787
60 TBYO787 : Unfortunately that is true.. I am sad about it. AA used to be the On Time Machine. That Machine became too old. Service is a mess. Complaints pile up
61 SOUTHAMERICA : Where did you get these numbers? Barranquilla is hardly over 1,1M inhabitants according to the 2005 Census. If you count other nearby municipalities
62 Post contains images TBYO787 : Do you really believe on DANE and its intentionally manipulated Statistics by BOG. 08tAtlánticot08520tPalmar de Varelatt23,674 08tAtlánticot08549tP
63 SOUTHAMERICA : As manipulated as they can be, they are the closest thing to an official source we can get, and quite frankly I do believe DANE over any personal per
64 Summa767 : Just a word of warning on statistics: As the saying goes, they can be used to prove anything. But on the specifics of international traffic at CLO, we
65 RCS763AV : Yea right... AV could take a stab at B6 if they see that the route is having poor yields and load factors.....who will win the fight Also, Barranquil
66 AA767LOVER : Even if US were granted slots, where would they fly from? FLL? It would be suicidal going from CLT. What's the Hispanic (let alone Colombian) populati
67 MAH4546 : CLT. They are getting rid of the 321s. It will be a daily A319. MCO. They applied for FLL, but were rejected for that.
68 WesternA318 : Just personal bias, friends. I would rather fly SLC to PHX/LAS and then onto CLT/PHL before EVER setting foot on another B6 plane. All is not lost ho
69 A330323X : US has internally announced it will be appealing the award and/or going after CO's IAH-CLO frequencies.
70 Avianca : will be MDE doulbe daily with 737??? IMO AA should use 1 daily widebody (767) on the route due to good cargo loads... maybe the local rates from MIA
71 MAH4546 : Appeal the award isn't going to work. They won't succeed. Going after CO's unused Cali frequencies is a good idea, except that NK, AA, and DL will go
72 SJOtoLIR : Since December 2007, DL has started to develop new flights to Latin America from its base in JFK. As a matter of fact Panama City, Guatemala City, Sa
73 MAH4546 : And PTY has quickly been suspended. It ends in a few weeks, but will return for the summer.
74 Summa767 : I don't really know, and now, of course, there are the restrictions at JFK to take into account too, but I would expect that the second AV departure
75 WorldTraveler : sounds an aweful like what AA has done. But wait... are there restrictions on US carrier access to Panama that keeps other carriers from expanding th
76 SJOtoLIR : DL JFK-PTY 3x weekly will be suspended on March 31st. They will resume the route on June 05th. . Regardless such issues, CM PTY-JFK has been operatin
77 UAL777UK : I see NK ops to South America and wonder why those boys at UA have not looked at making a play for them. Especially if all the merger dancing with NW/
78 Luisca : Dont quote me on this, but it is my understanding that Panama applies an open skies policy to any carrier that wants to serve the country AS LONG AS
79 WesternA318 : Hmm...perhaps even a 757 might work? AA sends 752's into BOG, don't they?
80 SJOtoLIR : JJ makes flights on behalf of UA in those operations linking Brazil with the US bound. Same with almost all the Central American operations supplied
81 Klwright69 : Yes, it was a long, long time ago. If you read my post carefully, I indicated that I flew the route twice right after it first started.
82 SJOtoLIR : Some figures about the performance for AV JFK-BOG, in order to provide any clue about how DL JFK-BOG would face such market in the future. .....Month.
83 Summa767 : As we suspected, in light of jetBlue's tentative approval of its MCO-BOG proposal, AV has, for the moment at least, desisted of launching the same rou
84 MAH4546 : There is not room for two carriers, but Avianca could probably be successful in chasing JetBlue out of the market if they choose to do so.
85 Post contains images WesternA318 : I'll drink to that, here's to me racking up more miles with AV!
86 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : Last year, Aires from Colombia [IATA code: 4C] had obtained frequencies to operate BOG-FLL and it had been rumored a possible interline agreement betw
87 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : IMO- I must say you have sensationalized a situation that is quite honestly 'not that big'. As example, my partner has worked 16 A300 trips to and fr
88 MAH4546 : Airlines filed their objections yesterday and today. American objects, of course, the removal of their seven frequencies and attempts to make a case f
89 Summa767 : I fear that will be the case, but I still harbour some hope that in the face of all the replies so far, that acuse DOT of acting wrongly in tentative
90 RICARIZA : There is a rumor around that Spirit already purchased Aires... I don't know...
91 WorldTraveler : makes me mad too. they should strip CO too. maybe DL will go back in a year if there are no more awards and argue the same point.
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