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Who's Really Clogging NYC Airspace?  
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8181 times:

As the debate continues about how efficiently NYC airspace is being used and in response to questions about the size of various carriers’ operations in NYC, I performed a schedule analysis of the top carriers for June 08 schedules at EWR, LGA, and JFK calculating total flights per week for each carrier (including regional carriers operating for the mainline carrier. I also included the number of seats per flight number; however, because some flights – using all types of equipment – do not operate on a daily basis, this statistic should not be used to calculate number of seats per departure (which can be calculated using the information provided).

Here is what I found.

AA’s operation at JFK (including regional carriers)
98,000 seats/week on 638 flights/week with an average capacity per flight (see above) of 144 seats.

B6’s operation at JFK
163,000 seats per week on 1176 flights per week with an average capacity of 139 seats per flight.

DL’s operation at JFK
156,000 seats/week on 1345 flights/week with an average capacity of 117 seats per flight.
For DL mainline alone, 130K seats/week on 630 flights with an average capacity of 183 seats per flight.

AA at LGA
78K seats/week on 849 flts/week for 77 seats/flt.

DL at LGA
82K seats/week on 779 flts/week for 101 seats/flt.

US at LGA
75K seats/week on 1190 flts/week for 59 seats/flt

CO at EWR
338K seats/week on 3117 flts for 104 seats/flt
For CO mainline alone, 262K seats/week on 1693 flts/week for149 seats/flt.

Clearly CO is the dominant player in the entire NYC area while DL is dominant in NY state on a combined basis.

While CO and DL both have sizeable regional carrier operations, the vast majority of their seats in NYC are on mainline aircraft with DL using mainline aircraft for an even higher percentage of seats.

Also, DL and CO do have lower average seats / flight (see above) but they also have much larger true hub operations including service to cities that are exclusively served by both carriers from their respective gateways. (AA and DL also jointly serve a number of RJ cities from JFK together).

Even though AA and US both have more flights at LGA, DL carries more passengers.

US clearly is least efficient with its slots in NYC based on aircraft size.

AA is the most efficient user of slots at JFK followed closely by B6, which can be said to operate a domestic hub.

Hope this information is educational and helpful in understanding the NYC congestion situation.

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8140 times:

Though it isn't constant, I wonder how many private aircraft (jet-wise) use that airspace every week. Granted they use TEB, HPN, and others outside the main city, but still use the general area.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8131 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
while DL is dominant in NY state on a combined basis.

NY State or NYC? A certain moderator might have a problem here  Wink



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2179 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

One big problem at the NYC airports that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves is that there are too many biz jets using the airports there.

A biz jet takes up the same amount of airspace as a 747-400 or A380, but carries far fewer passengers. Even an American Eagle ERJ, or USAirways Express CRJ, causes less congestion on a per seat basis than a Gulfstream V taking two or three people from Teterboro to Augusta, Georgia for a round of golf.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

This is very interesting stuff. Did you collect all this information yourself? If so very well done.

I find it very interesting that DL carries more passengers at LGA than anyone, I wouldn't have guessed that. I am also, I guess just not aware that B6 was so massive at JFK. Very interesting stuff.

I also think that if they are ever going to get NY Airspace under control it will take a rather signifigant reduction by DL CO and AA in RJ flying. Or perhapps EWR and JFK need to add some additional RJ pavement, as in runways.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8112 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Hope this information is educational and helpful in understanding the NYC congestion situation.

Thanks WT. Very useful.

It is interesting how the failed LGA slot system is causing slots to be wasted.

The perimeter rule is one problem. It means LGA is going to serve only half of its market. This means its slots are not used productively.

Even more so, the ability of AA and US to hold those LGA slots is trapping a public asset (LaGuardia Airport) with a product nobody wants. Competitors are excluded.

It's like NYC giving a prime Manhattan building to a bad pizza restaurant. The bad pizza restaurant will stay there forever, if people eat there or not. It is a waste of space. And it hurts the public compared to the free market.

I am all for slots. But the slots should be rented annually or every 6 months. And the perimeter rule should be gone. That would make seat traffic at LGA soar, without congesting the air space.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8097 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
NY State or NYC?

the New York state side of NYC. (if EWR is considered part of NYC metro)

I also agree that private jet traffic has to be considered into the equation but I don't have that data.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):



This is very interesting stuff. Did you collect all this information yourself? If so very well done.

thank you.

note that this is scheduled seat data, not share data... but it does give indications of what the carriers will do this summer when demand will be strong regardless of the economy.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8097 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):

I also think that if they are ever going to get NY Airspace under control it will take a rather signifigant reduction by DL CO and AA in RJ flying.

But not US, the worst offender of all?

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 3):
causes less congestion on a per seat basis than a Gulfstream V taking two or three people from Teterboro to Augusta, Georgia for a round of golf.

If the Biz Jets were just going to NYC with 3 pax each way it wouldn't be bad. What exacerbates the problem is that many of those Biz Jets either come to or leave the NYC airspace empty. Many of them for that region are based at places like ABE, PNE, etc. and then fly in and out of TEB, etc. empty to/from their outlying bases.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5343 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8074 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
US clearly is least efficient with its slots in NYC based on aircraft size.

Right, but I'm not sure this is a measurement of slot efficiency. You would need to include load factors (and even yield) to start to try and calculate that. All you're saying is that US have a larger number of flights using smaller aircraft, right?

Also, the 'clogging' of NYC airspace has little to do with 'antiquated ATC systems', although I'm sure it will come up, but much more because the airlines schedule (and more importantly, are allowed to schedule) more flights than than the airport can handle on average. Scheduling the maximum number of flights, assuming the best VMC weather, and visual approaches all round, simply doesn't work even most of the time.

Trust me, the only problem where bizjets might affect NYC is into TEB, and this isn't the major problem of overall NYC congestion. If you can't get your maximum arrival rate into LGA because of TEB arrivals, then perhaps the arrivals into LGA should be scheduled accordingly.


Jimbo

[Edited 2008-03-05 16:36:40]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8064 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 5):
The perimeter rule is one problem. It means LGA is going to serve only half of its market. This means its slots are not used productively.

agree... it would be interesting to see how efficiently LGA slots would be used if they could be flown to the whole country. Given the limitations at JFK, it's all the more important to revisit the issue now.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8050 times:

While these statistics - if correct - are interesting and do rouse debate and discussion, this whole questions is, I think, largely meaningless.

All of these cities - the RJ ones, the mainline ones, etc. - should be able to have nonstop access to the New York market if they can support them. The capacity in the area needs to expand so that the region can not only handle these hundreds of daily RJ and regional flights, but also more of these flights, plus more mainline flights, and on and on. The New York market is not slowing down, and demand for travel to the most important city on earth isn't either, as far as I can see.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Even though AA and US both have more flights at LGA, DL carries more passengers.

AA remains significantly larger overall in the New York market (JFK/LGA/EWR) than Delta.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 5):
Even more so, the ability of AA and US to hold those LGA slots is trapping a public asset (LaGuardia Airport) with a product nobody wants.

I'd be willing to bet that there are people in XNA, FNT, BTV and CHS, among dozens of other cities, would disagree with you.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8028 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
I'd be willing to bet that there are people in XNA, FNT, BTV and CHS, among dozens of other cities, would disagree with you.

Sure, and some people like bad pizza.

But should the government block out good restaurants just to protect the bad ones? After all, yes, a few people do like bad pizza. But most people would rather have something else.

Somebody is losing $2.00 so another guy can make $1.00. That's all I am saying.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8205 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8000 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
If you can't get your maximum arrival rate into LGA because of TEB arrivals, then perhaps the arrivals into LGA should be scheduled accordingly.

Not at all. TEB traffic should be delayed or diverted if it is impacting LGA.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5343 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
Not at all. TEB traffic should be delayed or diverted if it is impacting LGA.

Well, no it shouldn't. There are no priorities for IFR traffic, whether it's an Eclipse or a Boeing 747.

The traffic at BOTH airports should be scheduled accordingly. Of course, not quite that simple since all TEB is on-demand, as opposed to LGA all scheduled... but if we all agree that to ATC, a blip is a blip, we can't start saying one blip is more important than another (emergencies etc. excluded).

The bottom line is that although TEB is the bizziest airport .. it's a fraction as busy as LGA (or JFK ...)


Jimbo

[Edited 2008-03-05 16:59:37]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7972 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 3):
A biz jet takes up the same amount of airspace as a 747-400 or A380

How do you figure that?

If you're addressing lateral separation only then you are correct. But on approach and departure to/from the same airport you are not using lateral and the biz jet takes up quite a bit less space than any aircraft which creates the need for added separation such as a "Heavy" or B752.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7955 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
All of these cities - the RJ ones, the mainline ones, etc. - should be able to have nonstop access to the New York market if they can support them

no one debates that but the discusssion is about the size of each carrier in NYC... we have a complex about the size of things around here, you know.

I realize that since AA doesn't come up terribly favorably, you'd like to just stop the discussion but the facts IS the facts.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
AA remains significantly larger overall in the New York market (JFK/LGA/EWR) than Delta.

based on past date flown data, yes. Based on this summer's schedule, which should be a predicter of future share, DL will likely overtake AA in NYC.

For years, we've been discussing the size of each carrier's presence in NYC and have watched DL grow while AA has done very little. The results are becoming more obvious. DL is pouring most of its 2008 expansion - one of the largest into the industry - into JFK. That capacity will definitely play a role in the reordering of NYC's air carriers. In addition, DL is using its obviously using its LGA slots more aggressively.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7910 times:

I'm not really familiar with NY but are there any airports close to JFK or EWR that the airlines could relocate the regional jets to? Sort of make a smaller airport close by become a relief airport? that way at least the largest airports would be a little less congested but that doesnt really solve the problem once the planes are in the air.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7851 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 16):
I'm not really familiar with NY but are there any airports close to JFK or EWR that the airlines could relocate the regional jets to?

The Port Authority recently took control of Stewart Airport up near Newburgh with plans to totaly revamp the airport with new highway connections, a 3 mile rail spur to the MTA/NJ Transit Port Jervis line near Salisbury Mills station, as well as a new terminal, parking garages etc..

The problem is Newburgh is 60 miles North of NYC, Trenton/Mercer is closer (53 miles) to Manhattan.

Less flights on bigger planes is the answer, CO is doing this by replacing 37 and 50 seat ERJs at EWR with 74 seat Q-400s and DL replacing 50 ERJ/CRJs at JFK with larger Regional Jets.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

PLUS all traffic going overhead JFK and NYC at 34000 ft + alot of traffic

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7793 times:

While this ignores AA at EWR, CO at LGA and JFK, DL and EWR, etc., but the impact would be small on the average.

Total CO seats per flight = 104
Total AA seats per flight = 118
Total DL seats per flight = 112

As CO receives more Q400s, 738s, 73Es (And 772s and 787s) their average will creep up.

One thing to consider though is variety of routes.

If an airline has a lower average size because they are offering flights to everywhere, there is more value to the region to that kind of diversity than you get from an airline flying 12 RJs a day on one route, or even 10 A320s for that matter.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5343 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7754 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
If an airline has a lower average size because they are offering flights to everywhere, there is more value to the region to that kind of diversity than you get from an airline flying 12 RJs a day on one route, or even 10 A320s for that matter.

Well, I'm not sure 'more value to the region' !

Perhaps more value to the region that they are flying to .. not NYC. The 1500 pax that want to go LGA - BOS - LGA, are no less important to the NYC economy as those wanting to go to BTV, MHT, GSO etc. etc.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2505 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7556 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
Or perhapps EWR and JFK need to add some additional RJ pavement, as in runways

Pavement is not the problem. Airspace is the issue. With ADSB coming on line some of the airspace issues will go away.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 16):
I'm not really familiar with NY but are there any airports close to JFK or EWR that the airlines could relocate the regional jets to?

The RJs at both EWR and JFK are largely connection feed for international traffic so going to other airports like Stewart or Islip wouldn't make much sence and they still are a airspace issue.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7522 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
Perhaps more value to the region that they are flying to .. not NYC. The 1500 pax that want to go LGA - BOS - LGA, are no less important to the NYC economy as those wanting to go to BTV, MHT, GSO etc. etc.

With multiple airport options and 56 flights a day, NYC-BOS is not underserved. (not to mention buses and trains) If the people are "only" given a choice of 45 flights a day by swapping in a few larger planes than ERJs and CRJs and E190s, nobody is damaged. Access is not restricted. NYC will survive with even only 45 frequencies a day on larger aircraft...

But to cut off communities from NYC entirely? That DOES damage NYC, because it makes it a less valuable location for headquarters and trade shows and such.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21103 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7463 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 3):
One big problem at the NYC airports that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves is that there are too many biz jets using the airports there.

Not really. The bizjets generally go to TEB or HPN. TEB has no airline traffic, and HPN was designed as a GA airport before the airlines started flying there. You'll see the occasional bizjet at EWR, LGA or JFK, but it's a pretty rare occurrence.

And it's not like TEB doesn't get delayed - it does, sometimes very heavily while EWR is running pretty much on schedule.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 13):
The bottom line is that although TEB is the bizziest airport .. it's a fraction as busy as LGA (or JFK ...)

According to Airnav (and these are '06 stats), TEB has well over 500 operations a day, combined with us up at HPN with close to that, and you've almost got yourself another LGA/JFK/EWR, which all have right around 1100-1200

[Edited 2008-03-05 22:37:00]

[Edited 2008-03-05 22:37:30]

25 GCT64 : As an outsider from London, it is interesting that the discussion in NY and London is likely to come down to the same problem - sheer lack of airspace
26 Apodino : I was thinking about the whole slot thing, and I was also thinking about DCA, which is another slot controlled airport. You ever notice that DCA rare
27 CuriousFlyer : Cutting slots is good, but we should choose the slots that are dedicated to smaller aircrafts. If US send RJs to BTV from LGA when B6 sends Airbuses f
28 WA707atMSP : There is only a finite amount of airspace in the New York City area, and on the airways in and out of the city. Biz Jets flying in and out of TEB and
29 Bond007 : BBJs are not allowed at TEB AFAIK, but I get your point. Vice versa. If there were less airline flights scheduled ... i.e. the amount scheduled that
30 FlyPNS1 : Even if we had unlimited airspace, you'd still have signficant delays at JFK/LGA/EWR because most of them are scheduled to their max. You are correct
31 Lowrider : Business jets have just as much right to the airspace in the NY area as any airliner. Just as you have as much right to the road as someone in a stret
32 BE77 : This should really be - "Who's Really Clogging NYC Runways (and Gates)?" I've never heard of a hold when the runway was empty (except from sadistic CF
33 BE77 : btw - excellent job on the stats!
34 DocLightning : And I once calculated that there are about 4,900 seats from NYC airports to SFO daily on some 27 aircraft. The LARGEST is the AA 763's. UA uses A319s.
35 Post contains links Delta4eva : According to the New York/New Jersey Port Authority, DL + DL Connection + Delta Shuttle is still smaller than AA + American Eagle as far as number of
36 Dw747400 : As others have said, the pavement tends to be the limiting factor. NY area ATC does an exceptional job at keeping the flows from various airports fro
37 Post contains images Mir : Out of all the arrival routes into LGA, EWR and JFK, only one is shared with HPN or TEB (into LGA/HPN from the north, and even that isn't that big of
38 Bond007 : Not really. It means slot restrictions like some airports have already. The airlines can use whatever equipment they like .. RJs or A380s. In theory,
39 XJET : I will throw my opinions into the hat here. In my opinion, the main issue in NYC is old airports with antiquated runway configurations. This is a prob
40 Post contains images Isitsafenow : .and more flights will be added. ADSB will compound this problem Pavement(runways) not the problem eh...? Boy I'd just love to sit down with anyone w
41 Ikramerica : AA flies 762s, UA flies 757s, neither of which is a wasteful use of aircraft. The flexible timing of these flights is very important to business trav
42 CoolGuy : I'm looking at NYC airspace right now from my desk and it doesn't look that crowded. Actually never mind, I just saw two aircraft while writing that o
43 Flighty : Let's allow the airlines to decide which is more economically "important." If a flight makes $2,000, it is more important than a flight that only mak
44 Bond007 : Correct. That's why I'm misunderstood sometimes when I say we need to cut frequencies. I'm not advocating going from hourly shuttle flights to flight
45 Isitsafenow : Yeah, 3pm is kinda of a lull almost anywhere, however.................... Go look whats lined up for take off around 7 15- 7 30 tomorrow morning. Tak
46 Post contains links Aviateur : Just an idea: how about the banning of all RJ traffic at JFK between the hours of 5 p.m. and 10 p.m.? This, and several other ideas, are discussed her
47 FlyDeltaJets87 : Except that the government isn't telling the airlines which cities they have to fly to (well, minus the perimester restrictions). If Delta has 20 slo
48 AirPortugal310 : I was struggling for the right words, but you said it even better than I could. If your going to blame someone, blame everyone.
49 COA735 : The above survey doesn't factor in cargo operations. I'm sure JFK has a nice flow of intl and US cargo ops. EWR also seems to have a FDX mini hub.
50 ScottB : Actually, the road isn't a terribly good analogy here given that states and other jurisdictions routinely restrict certain types of traffic from usin
51 SPREE34 : This indicates you do not understand ATC separation, or the way the Biz Jets are segregated from the Airline traffic. Negative. A "blip" is not a "bl
52 Jetstar : I agree with you 100 percent. I spent almost my general aviation career in corporate aviation and there are a lot of misconceptions on this thread ab
53 Jetblueguy22 : Well if expanded they could use HPN and SWF. I am really surprised no one has really looked at HVN. Sure its about an hour away from the city but its
54 Jetstar : HPN will never expand, the very wealthy and powerful anti-airport NIMBY’s will not allow it. It’s a continuous battle just to keep the airport op
55 DocLightning : I'm all for regulation, actually. I think there is a way that we can re-regulate or partially re-regulate without repeating the errors of the past. B
56 Lowrider : Just as certain types of air traffic is not allowed into certain places (ex. Pt 91 GA traffic into DCA) and not all aircraft are allowed to use all t
57 Bond007 : My comment, in context, was related to priority. I'm quite familiar with how ATC works. Not sure where you got this from? I assure you the BBJ will b
58 SCCutler : The notion that GA activities have even a remotely material impact upon the delays in terminal areas such as New York / Newark is ludicrous. The overw
59 AA767LOVER : One thing I wonder if it is possible to do, now just my thoughts. Expand ISP and HPN by lowering fare further to attract more traffic. ISP has WN and
60 Flynavy : Solution: shut down LGA.
61 Flighty : Well it's illegal to launch new flights from LGA without a slot. But no slots are available. DL, AA and US are holding virtually all of them in perpe
62 SPREE34 : Priority? If the traffic flows are segregated neither has or needs a priority. That being said, in my experience, the secondary airport traffic is us
63 Av8tor : This is the key! The real problems started at JFK when Delta began their reckless domestic growth at JFK. Everywhere B6 went in the North East, Delta
64 Bond007 : I agree. My point was that nobody get's priority. In reference to the reply I quoted. Well, it does remotely impact them ... that's a fact. The numbe
65 WorldTraveler : and won that has been suggested along with increases in facilities at JFK... but sadly you and I know it will never happen.
66 AirNZ : Why......or indeed how do you propose to give the NYC area saturated access on demand? Hmm! going just a little bit over the top there, aren't you an
67 Jetstar : HPN is capacity controlled by county rules to the number of passengers per half hour, which is 240. All this capacity is presently allocated to the a
68 SEPilot : Having flown my own plane into both TEB and HPN many times I can tell you that they do not contribute more that a tiny amount to the NYC area congest
69 AA767LOVER : I normally prefer EWR and JFK over LGA because of super AirTrain access in both airports linking to either Amtrak and NJ Transit at EWR station, or LI
70 STT757 : The cost is not high at all, they are planning on building a three mile spur to link with NJ Transit/MTA's Port Jervis line near the Salisbury Mill s
71 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Associated Press Department Of Transportation Sets Flight Cap At 83 At EWR "Newark will be limited to 83 flights per hour during peak period
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NYC Airspace Violation On 07/04 posted Sat Jul 6 2002 20:23:43 by Theiler
Who Really Made The 777? posted Sun Oct 7 2001 05:39:29 by Lehpron
Who Really Invented The Airplane? posted Mon Sep 24 2001 10:34:50 by B777-777X
Will NYC Airspace Be Closed Tomorrow? posted Tue Sep 11 2001 15:46:42 by Airbus380