Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
PTY Courting BA, AF And VS And More Panama News  
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

Interesting interview with sub secretary of tourism of Panama in which he states that PTY is trying to lure more Europe Service by courting VS, which he states already added Panama to its Virgin Holiday catalogs, what he calls the first step for VS to add you to its list of destinations.

He further states that they have been negotiating a return of BA to Panama City for over two years and hope to reach a deal when the new terminal at Heathrow opens up; further more they state that they hope to attract AF from Paris if the KL flights that start this month do well.

There are also more indications that IB will start dedicated PTY flights in the future, the flight combined with GUA has gone up to 4 times a week and they have received strong indications that if PTY continues to perform as strong as it has IB will look into separating the route, maybe PTY-MDA and GUA-SAL-MAD?.

In other Panama news more signs that the government will go ahead with plans to build a new airport close to the Pacific Beaches in the Anton-Penonome region to compete head on with LIB (guanacaste region) and that Howard continues to be developed so that it can one day become the primary leisure and charter airport for Panama.

http://www.prensa.com/hoy/negocios/1286039.html

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

VS and BA? Never saw that coming, and doubt they will add PTY to their destinations.

However, I see AF coming to PTY, considering CMs membership in Skyteam (huge connections on the CDG-PTY flight to all over Central and South America)

Are there many charter flights to Panama currently (in relation to Howard)


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4329 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 1):
VS and BA? Never saw that coming, and doubt they will add PTY to their destinations.

I could see it happening once the 787 is online, but only one of them, not both and probably out of LGW not LHR, my guess would be VS since they seem to cooperate with CO on some flights if I recall correctly.

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 1):
Are there many charter flights to Panama currently (in relation to Howard)

There are enough charters from Canada and Europe to warrant the use of an alternate airport, for example Air Transat flies an A330 in and that basically blocks out 2 other parking spots that are desperately needed at overcrowded PTY.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

BA have little interest in Latin America. VS have plenty of places in the wish list before PTY.
AF could happen, but unlikely in the next couple of years.
I could see European charters being interested, though.


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Despite the huge AF-KL presence in Latin America, only the two most important markets see dual service from both airlines: GRU and MEX.

Not even large markets like EZE, BOG or CCS see dual service. I doubt PTY would be any different.


SA.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4070 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 1):
I see AF coming to PTY, considering CMs membership in Skyteam (huge connections on the CDG-PTY flight to all over Central and South America)

KL will start AMS-PTY on March 30th with MD-11 and 3x weekly.
This flight will hold commercial cooperation given by connections through CM/P5.




.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 4):
Despite the huge AF-KL presence in Latin America, only the two most important markets see dual service from both airlines: GRU and MEX.

Correct. Both KL and AF don't tend to double their operations in Latin America, beside MEX and GRU.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4044 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
There are enough charters from Canada and Europe to warrant the use of an alternate airport, for example Air Transat flies an A330 in and that basically blocks out 2 other parking spots that are desperately needed at overcrowded PTY.

The situation @ PTY has to do because the airport refuses to use the cargo terminal as remote parking. Other airports bus their passengers longer distances between the main terminal and remote parking than the distance between the cargo terminal and PTY gates.

I can see some minor developments @ BLB to please the charter flights and some local politicians, but I can't imagine a LCC operating there in the very near future.
Most of MPRH (Rio Hato Aerodrome) land is worth more as a part of Tourist development taking place overthere thanas an international airport. One shouldn't compare it with LIR as that area of Panama is only 115Km from the city (a tiny bit less from BLB) on a 4 lane highway and one of the main reasons LIR was developed had to do with the road conditions in Costa Rica.
Where major improvements are badly needed are in DAV and in one of the airports in Azuero peninsula (Chitre CTD, Guararé MPNU ?) because the traveltime from PTY. DAV eventually is going to need a bigger terminal or decent immigration/customs area and hopefully some CM flights.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 4):
Despite the huge AF-KL presence in Latin America, only the two most important markets see dual service from both airlines: GRU and MEX.

Yes, but because Sâo Paulo and México D.F. size, GRU and MEX can support flights from both airlines and also MEX is an SkyTeam hub thru AM.
Other major Latinamerican airports might have a greater O/D than PTY for KL and AF to both fly to those airports, but the only SkyTeam hubs in Latinamerica are MEX and PTY.
Had Air Caraïbes not started flying to PTY, the easiest way for AF to fly to PTY would have been regional flights from PTP/FDM.

From London, I can't imagine BA returning to PTY, my guess would be that VS and CM may get to some kind of code-share agreement for eventual LGW-PTY flights, since VS seems to cooperate with CO.

Still dreaming when KE will do ICN-PTY, maybe via ANC, so to connect those 2 Skyteam hubs.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4010 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 6):
Other major Latinamerican airports might have a greater O/D than PTY for KL and AF to both fly to those airports, but the only SkyTeam hubs in Latinamerica are MEX and PTY.

Still, the fact that PTY is a SkyTeam hub isn't enough to warrant service from both KLM and Air France, there has to be a huge O&D base like the one GRU or MEX can provide.

The whole idea of integrating AF and KL was to precisely create synergies. Thus, if KL's service to PTY proves to be successful (which I think it will), I believe it is easier to see KL upgrading equipment or adding more frequencies, rather than seeing AF dig in.

There are many examples of alliance members which don't fly to each other's hubs: LAN doesn't fly to LHR despite being a Oneworld hub, Alitalia doesn't fly to MEX being a SkyTeam hub, IB doesn't fly to DFW being a huge Oneworld hub. This proves that being parterns helps, but it isn't enough.


SA.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

It has been discussed in this forum the status of both David [MPDA/DAV. Length of runway: 6890 feet long] and Howard AFB [MPHO, Canal Zone. Length of runway: 8502 feet long] which are currently receiving charter jet-line operations belonging merely to tourism.
I'm still puzzled about the interest of the Panamanian Government in order to develop a new airport in Penonome zone, instead to invest money and enhance the level of service whether in DAV or MPHO.
I'm aware the beach resorts in Playa Blanca and surroundings are closer from MPHO, but the point is that DAV is supporting charter operations and it would be a feasible possibility as well.
This is how the main leisure stations in Central America are working at this time:
a. Scheduled operations performed by mainline carriers and targeting to the US and Canadian bounds: Roatan: [TA, CO, DL]. Liberia [AA, AC, US, UA, CO, DL, NW].
b. Charter operations heading mainly to North America.
c. Small regional planes. Roatan [Scheduled flights to LCE and SAP]. Liberia [Scheduled flights mainly to San Jose area].
The next point is concerning if Panama may develop a leisure model like Roatan or Liberia. Some conditions look quite similar though.




.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
BA have little interest in Latin America.

True, BA serves to MEX, GRU, GIG and EZE into the Latin American market nowadays. I meant Latin America as the countries where languages originated from Latin are primarily spoken.
On the other hand, both VS and BA have a respectable presence in some British overseas territories placed in the continent as well as former British colonies and focused into the Caribbean.
By the way, OneWorld system is currently linking AA PTY-MIA and then [AA/BA] MIA-LHR.




.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 7):
Still, the fact that PTY is a SkyTeam hub isn't enough to warrant service from both KLM and Air France, there has to be a huge O&D base like the one GRU or MEX can provide.

I agree once again. GRU handled 18,8 millions of passengers during the 2007 as long as the numbers at MEX were 25,8 millions.
Neither of the Central American stations managed at least 4 millions of passengers last year.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7422 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Now that KLM is restarting PTY from AMS, I doubt to see AF doing the same from CDG.

After AF & KL merged, KL "left" CCS to leave AF alone operating for the group. Same in MIA.
So I doubt there is the place for both AF & KL in PTY.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3676 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 8):
Neither of the Central American stations managed at least 4 millions of passengers last year.

Complete figures for PTY 2007 performance hasn't been disclosed yet by Autoridad de Aeronaútica Civil de Panamá on their website. The estimates make seem that PTY handled more than 4 million passengers last year.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 8):
I'm aware the beach resorts in Playa Blanca and surroundings are closer from MPHO, but the point is that DAV is supporting charter operations and it would be a feasible possibility as well.

An improved DAV is a necessity, but it can't be seen as an airport for Playa Blanca area. The Playa Blanca area is 75 minutes from BLB Howard Airport but at least 4 hours from DAV.

I understand why DAV is being compared with RTB and LIR, but people must remember that DAV already has a catchment area of +300.000 people while neither RTB nor LIR have that. I'm not including LCE, but only the other Bay Islands in RTB catchment area



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3612 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 10):
An improved DAV is a necessity, but it can't be seen as an airport for Playa Blanca area.

Agreed.  checkmark 




.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 10):
I understand why DAV is being compared with RTB and LIR, but people must remember that DAV already has a catchment area of 300.000 people while neither RTB nor LIR have that. I'm not including LCE, but only the other Bay Islands in RTB catchment area

La Ceiba, Honduras has a population of about 250 000.
I also think that both LCE and DAV cannot fully compared with either RTB or LIR.
LCE is receiving TACA REGIONAL into LCE-SAP-TGU with ATR-42, among other flights. DAV operates AIR PANAMA in the leg PAC-DAV-SJO with Dash-8 and TACA REGIONAL SJO-DAV with ATR-42, among other domestic operations.
With that being said, neither RTB not LIR are operating the mentioned [40-55]-seater planes.
The regional traffic in both DAV and LCE seems to be larger than both RTB and LIR, but it's the contrary in the mainline regular flights focusing to the US bound.
However, the existence of charter services in DAV and LCE grant the usage of them for tourism purposes.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

A new airport in the Penonome area would be money well spent, in charters alone the airport would be quite busy and eventually scheduled service could start to the US and Canada. there are two major resorts up in the area with 3 more in construction and several planned already, more and more the Panama Pacific coast is trying to compete with LIB and an airport is needed. MPRH is more valuable as development land than as an airport and Penonome is only 15-20 minutes away and would give the airport a larger catchment area because it would be closer to El Valle, Punta Barco and Coronado, all vacation destinations.

DAV also needs to be improved because there is already interest in it, the Panama ministry of tourism has been trying to lure DL, AA or CO to start weekly service to DAV, which is the main airport for the Boquete region, which IMHO is probably the most amazing location in Panama, my absolute favorite.

BLB will become the primary charter and cargo airport in Panama, because as I understand with the extension of RWY 3R and the new T2 in PTY the old cargo terminal will have to go so it is not an option, the the fuel farm also has to be moved, the idea being that both RWY 3R and 3L have about equal taxi distances to the terminal, right now 3L is only used for landings when absolutely necessary due to its extremely long taxi time to the terminal, at peak times you can see 4-5 CM planes lined up for 3R and one or two will have to sidestep to 3L or go around.

The new layout at PTY would have 3R at 13000 feet, primarily being used for aircraft arriving and departing from T1 (current terminal) as well as widebody aircraft and 3L would get an ILS and at 8600 feet it would be used for aircraft arriving and departing T2 (new terminal) an underground people mover would link the two terminals.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
Now that KLM is restarting PTY from AMS, I doubt to see AF doing the same from CDG.

True, i can see KL eventually going daily instead of splitting the route with AF. About service to London like I stated previously it would be at least a few years away maybe 2-3, but once VS gets the 787 it may well be added to their leisure destinations out of LGW, maybe a twice weekly service to start, with onward connections provided by CM.

I remember reading in the papers that fellow SkyTeam member Spanair was planning to start MAD-PTY with ongoing connections by CM, Spanair is already operating charters into PTY, so maybe that could be announced soon, I just wonder what the effect would be on IB and plans to operate dedicated PTY flights.

I heard from a friend (isnt that always the case) that CM is planning some new routes for later in 08; ORD, YYZ (finally), SFO, Santa Cruz, PEI (operated by P5) and GCM, CUR are all on the lookout. My personal opinion is that CM has almost fully tapped the Latin America market and 2008 will be a year of consolidation with a focus on increasing frequency between all of its destinations, and not so much about expansion. I do believe that CM needs to look into the Caribbean now, maybe CUR, GCM, Martinique, Guyana are all destinations CM should look into. BTW anybody know how the Air Caraibes SJO-PTY flight is doing? loads?


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7422 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3538 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
I remember reading in the papers that fellow SkyTeam member Spanair was planning to start MAD-PTY with ongoing connections by CM, Spanair is already operating charters into PTY, so maybe that could be announced soon, I just wonder what the effect would be on IB and plans to operate dedicated PTY flights.

Spanair is not a Skyteam member ... They are with Star Alliance.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

I entail the new possible airport in Penonome area will lie about 100 kilometers from BLB.
If BLB may become the main charter station in Panama, it isn't exactly clear the intentions to build a new airport in the nearby zone. However, the planning and development of beach resorts in long-term may justify this purpose.
I will introduce a new point: the primary issue is concerning to the development of the new airport in Penonome area or the improvement at DAV, aside from the mentioned activities in both PTY and BLB.




.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
I remember reading in the papers that fellow SkyTeam member Spanair was planning to start MAD-PTY with ongoing connections by CM, Spanair is already operating charters into PTY, so maybe that could be announced soon, I just wonder what the effect would be on IB and plans to operate dedicated PTY flights.

As far as I know, Spanair is not deploying operations anymore into the continent. As a matter of fact, they don't get any long-haul equipment in their own at this time.
Air Europa is another SkyTeam associate member based in MAD and they are serving regularly some Latin American stations: CCS, GIG, CUN, HAV, SDQ and SSA. Probably, this is the airline of the issue at stake.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3418 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Spanair is not a Skyteam member ... They are with Star Alliance.

Air Europa... wao big brainfart...


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3402 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 14):
Air Europa is another SkyTeam associate member based in MAD and they are serving regularly some Latin American stations: CCS, GIG, CUN, HAV, SDQ and SSA. Probably, this is the airline of the issue at stake.

I don't think CM is that keen into getting a B767 and starting MAD themselves rightnow. Flying to MAD with a B737-800 via BDA would be out of the question and CM would have no plans for adding the B737-700ER with maybe less than 80 passengers just to fly to MAD. Looks like they'll wait for a B787 and let Air Europa codeshare future MAD-PTY flights. Having KL back in PTY and now with CM codeshare is very, very good, but surely CM knows that flying via AMS won't be a good solution for the MAD-Latinamerica traffic market.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 14):
I entail the new possible airport in Penonome area will lie about 100 kilometers from BLB.

Penonomé is more than 100Km away from BLB by road. Both Penonomé and Aguadulce have airfields which areas probably may be increased, but those lands are worth more as real-estate developments. If the Panamanian goverment doesn't use MPRH Cap. Scarlett Martínez Aerodrome in Rio Hato / Playa Blanca as an international airport and they still want to do something in that reagion, better would be to improve Chitre CTD and wide the road between Chitre and the Panamerican Highway to 4 lanes. CTD could have a better and greater catchment area than any airport between Penonomé and Aguadulce.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
I heard from a friend (isnt that always the case) that CM is planning some new routes for later in 08; ORD, YYZ (finally), SFO, Santa Cruz, PEI (operated by P5) and GCM, CUR are all on the lookout. My personal opinion is that CM has almost fully tapped the Latin America market and 2008 will be a year of consolidation with a focus on increasing frequency between all of its destinations, and not so much about expansion. I do believe that CM needs to look into the Caribbean now, maybe CUR, GCM, Martinique, Guyana are all destinations CM should look into.

Panamá is so small, everybody has friends in CM.  Smile Those are the same rumors I've hearing, plus MTY. I don't think CM would do VVI as a LIM tag-on. I do agree CM should look more into the Caribbean, and I don't mean only another destination in Cuba (SCU) or return to MBJ, they need to increase frequencies to KIN and PAP, but as long as Air Caraïbes flies to PTY, I wouldn't see CM trying FDM, unless they get AF codeshare, There are some exotic E190-friendly destiantions to add to CM network too, but it would seem to obscure to believe CM would fly overthere this year: AQP, IQT, PBM, BGI, AUA, LIR, TPA (MCO back-up), FLL or PBI (MIA back-up) and TLC (MEX back-up, if allowed by Mexican authorities). On other routes, I do believe this year we'll see an increase in frequencies to GIG, MVD and COR (better aircraft utilization), but can't see CM including ASU en route to MVD a couple of days per week.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
BTW anybody know how the Air Caraibes SJO-PTY flight is doing? loads?

For Carnival time I happen to be checking-in at CO right next to Air Caraibes countre and there were at least 60 people checking for that flight. I think they're doing well, just a couple of days ago I saw an ad on La Prensa from Air Caraïbes to Paris and I know some Colon Duty Free salespeople are actually taking them in order to avoid changing planes in MIA or SJU when travelling to the Lesser Antilles.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

I don't see how one can compare LIR to this new airport in planning. How does this compete with Liberia? If it was in Costa Rica, yes, I see where the competition comes in. Liberia is unique in itself and has gotten a lot of US carriers there as overflow to SJO.

I was hoping David would be expanded as overflow to PTY. There are new flights to David on TACA now. David could become a focus city for CM maybe?

Back in 2005, it was proposed that CM would start service to Toronto. I have not seen a single thing since then! I always have to fly to JFK if I want to fly Copa, and then take the train or fly to Buffalo in order to get to Toronto. Maybe Air Transat and Westjet charters are already enough. Not enough demand for regularly scheduled service, maybe. It's always "Mañana" - for 3 years, it has been "Mañana" , and NO SERVICE TO YYZ as announced in an english speaking newspaper. So either the newspaper needs a new editor who can get the facts straight and stop BS'ing people, or else COPA should not make ambitious announcements UNLESS it REAAAALLYYYYY plans to do the YYZ service. As much as I love Copa for their quality, unless they deliver on their word, they should not raise expectations prematurely by announcing it when nothing has even materialized. You know why I know? I constantly checked their website over the last 3 years since it was announced, and still nothing!

A big OH-WELL!



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3360 times:



Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 17):
I don't see how one can compare LIR to this new airport in planning. How does this compete with Liberia?

One compares LIR and a planned airport somewhere in Panamá because that airport in Panama would be a leisure-oriented airport to cater the traffic to the (future) resorts just like LIR does. Costa Rica needed an airport in Guanacaste province to futher develop the toursim in that area since both SJO and MGA coudn't be used to receive the leisure traffic to those Guanacaste resorts because of the travelling time by land between the resorts and those airports.. If Panama needs an aditional international airport somewhere between BLB and DAV would be because the resorts that future airport is going to take care are too far for a transfer to/from both PTY/BLB and DAV.
Nowhere are we saying that an airport in Panama competes with LIR.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 17):
David could become a focus city for CM maybe?

That's a dream of mine, but I reckon, CM lost all interest in DAV the day they stopped domestic flights. Even in the time they had B737-200 there was a demand for international service to SJO and to connect with their then limited hub operations for at least 2 flights per week. As of today, CM could well make a stop a couple of their Centralamerican flights in DAV 3 times per week and still provide an acceptable service to DAV and don't lose money. And there are still rumors of CM DAV-MIA flights, which I strongly believe are lies and not what DAV needs or really can support.
I just get very mad everytime the subject of CM in DAV or CM flights to non-Spanish speaking Caribbean comes on.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 17):
As much as I love Copa for their quality, unless they deliver on their word, they should not raise expectations prematurely by announcing it when nothing has even materialized. You know why I know? I constantly checked their website over the last 3 years since it was announced, and still nothing!

CM miss-information isn't something new... The excuses I've heard regarding Canada flights had to do with the bilateral that only allows the Panamanian airline to fly thrice weekly to either YUL or YVR (don't know if 3 flights total per week or 3 to each destination) and didn't mention YYZ. Then there were rumors about YUL instead of YYZ or that YYZ had curfew and CM couldn't operate a the times they wanted (between 2400 and 0500h). See how the manage the launch of their POS flights (delayed 2 years) and don't feel frustrated about any undelivered CM announcement.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

I have my doubts about the feasibility of some proposed additions onto CM's network that have been posted out above. For example:
AQP Arequipa, Peru: Payload penalties due to altitude for a possible non-stop to PTY.
ORD Chicago O'Hare: Current weak traffic to sustain IAD. Probably a similar behavior with ORD.
On the other hand, CM has demonstrated to be a good player in the Caribbean and both HAV and SDQ are their stellar destinations in such region, taking into account that most South American countries are poorly connected with the Caribbean.
Other larger Latin American air carriers don't get the presence in the Caribbean as Copa Airlines does.




.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
CM has almost fully tapped the Latin America market and 2008 will be a year of consolidation with a focus on increasing frequency between all of its destinations, and not so much about expansion

 checkmark 



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3301 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Costa Rica needed an airport in Guanacaste province to further develop the tourism in that area since both SJO and MGA couldn't be used to receive the leisure traffic to those Guanacaste resorts because of the travelling time by land between the resorts and those airports.

Exactly ! Ground transportation from either SJO or MGA [immigration in Penas Blancas included] to Guanacaste resorts spent at least four hours driving from.
That's why I cannot understand to authorities of tourism of Panama that stated the possible development of a new airport somewhere between BLB and DAV, taking into account the existence of BLB and even PTY.
Based on your early posts, beach resorts in Playa Blanca and surroundings are located more than 100 kilometers and equates to 75 minutes driving from BLB and a bit more from PTY. Moreover, good paved roads are granted there.
This model is different compared with the situation to get at Guanacaste resorts whether from SJO or MGA.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3254 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20):
Moreover, good paved roads are granted there.
This model is different compared with the situation to get at Guanacaste resorts whether from SJO or MGA.

There is a four lane highway joining PTY/BLB and the resorts in the Rio Hato (MPRH) region, the problem is that the Panamanian government wants to de emphasize the Panama city centric society that we have right now and focus on more point to point service, IMHO Penonome INTL is a great idea.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 17):
Back in 2005, it was proposed that CM would start service to Toronto. I have not seen a single thing since then! I always have to fly to JFK if I want to fly Copa, and then take the train or fly to Buffalo in order to get to Toronto. Maybe Air Transat and Westjet charters are already enough. Not enough demand for regularly scheduled service, maybe. It's always "Mañana" - for 3 years, it has been "Mañana" , and NO SERVICE TO YYZ as announced in an english speaking newspaper

Never has CM officially announced YYZ, it has always been a rumor.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3168 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 19):
AQP Arequipa, Peru: Payload penalties due to altitude for a possible non-stop to PTY.

From Great Circle Mapper:
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) GDL (20°31'18"N 103°18'40"W) 298° (NW) 1547 nm - GDL 5016ft
PTY (09°04'17"N 79°23'00"W) AQP (16°20'28"S 71°34'59"W) 162° (S) 1587 nm - AQP 8405ft
Currently CM is flying their E190 GDL-PTY which is an slightly similar distance as AQP-PTY, but GDL altitude isn't comparable to AQP's. I'm no Embraer and I don't have access to CM "route development department" so I'm not sure if AQP-PTY could be possible without restrictions. The other thing about AQP is that airport is supposedly closed between 2400h and 0600h, exactly when a possible CM flght arrival and departure would take place, anyhow, I wouldn't give this fact a lot of attention as I believe the moment CM openly informs the Peruvian authorities they'll fly to AQP with an arrival after midnight and departure before 0500h the Peruvians will make the arrangements w/AQP to please CM. I do believe that CM AQP performance would surprise a lot of people since I don't see TA or LA taking that much interest in international routes out of AQP.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 19):
ORD Chicago O'Hare: Current weak traffic to sustain IAD. Probably a similar behavior with ORD.

I totally agree, if CM flies to ORD, their load will be similar to IAD and we'll see promotional fares to/from ORD every-week on CM's website as is the case with IAD. If CM arrival and departures times at JFK and IAD give a lot to talk about, just imagine ORD's. Hope CM would try to make them more bearable depending if winter- or summer-time.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 21):
IMHO Penonome INTL is a great idea.

I'm no fan of an international airport in Penonomé, IMHO, Agualdulce or even a renewed Chitre airport would be better, taking into account all the developments in Azuero Peninsula.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3058 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 22):
I don't see TA or LA taking that much interest in international routes out of AQP.

TA, LP and LA operate their international routes in Peru through LIM.
AQP and CUZ are focus cities for LP, but they are handling domestic flights exclusively.
Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2990 times:



Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 17):
...unless they deliver on their word, they should not raise expectations prematurely by announcing it when nothing has even materialized. You know why I know? I constantly checked their website over the last 3 years since it was announced, and still nothing!



Quoting Luisca (Reply 21):
Never has CM officially announced YYZ, it has always been a rumor.

 checkmark 

There are always to many "rumors" about route expansions, or new destinations or new frequencies [just remember CM to Europe, or the new 787, etcetera][maybe in a future, but not now]. Please lets try not to speculate, and face the real facts.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
LX And BA Code-share Is No More! posted Mon Sep 12 2005 21:30:00 by PipoA380
After AF/KL And LH/LX When Comes BA/IB? posted Wed Mar 16 2005 01:27:13 by ZRH
Today At Akl! And A Bit More News! posted Sat Mar 9 2002 06:22:57 by ZK-NBT
More Westjet News And Expansion posted Thu Nov 1 2001 19:12:19 by AirCanadaMan
EOS Claims Punctuality Title - Beats BA, VS & More posted Fri Feb 1 2008 12:56:45 by TUIflyer
Ba Humbug NW And Kudos To AS posted Sat Dec 15 2007 15:04:40 by ANCFlyer
BA To Poznan And Antalya Summer 2008 posted Wed Oct 17 2007 11:14:08 by AIR MALTA
Air Europa, Air Comet And IB: More Flts To EZE posted Tue Aug 28 2007 05:06:57 by Argentina
BA New Club And The 777 posted Sun Aug 19 2007 20:39:07 by BAStew
Loads On BA And VS posted Thu Aug 2 2007 09:54:32 by Industrybuff
EOS Claims Punctuality Title - Beats BA, VS & More posted Fri Feb 1 2008 12:56:45 by TUIflyer
Ba Humbug NW And Kudos To AS posted Sat Dec 15 2007 15:04:40 by ANCFlyer
BA To Poznan And Antalya Summer 2008 posted Wed Oct 17 2007 11:14:08 by AIR MALTA
Air Europa, Air Comet And IB: More Flts To EZE posted Tue Aug 28 2007 05:06:57 by Argentina
BA New Club And The 777 posted Sun Aug 19 2007 20:39:07 by BAStew
Loads On BA And VS posted Thu Aug 2 2007 09:54:32 by Industrybuff