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DL At PDX  
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2788 posts, RR: 5
Posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1397 times:

What Asian routes does DL operate from PDX? Thanks.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

NRT and NGO, but they're going away after 31MAR01.

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Delta currently flies nonstop service to Tokyo / Narita and Nagoya - both in Japan. However, both will be discontinued April, 1(date ?) New Tokyo service will be launched on that day from JFK resulting in Delta serving NRT from ATL, LAX and JFK. New Nagoya service would start on that day from LAX.

In the past DL has served the following Asian cities from PDX: Seoul (South Korea), Fukuoka (Japan), Taipei (Taiwan) and Bangkok (Thailand) - via Taipei. They had rights to serve Osaka (Japan) from PDX, but it never happened. They also served Hong Kong nonstop from LAX, but gave it up.


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Sorry, DeltaSFO - wrote my response at same time as you!

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1290 times:

That's okay Nick... also, I forgot, Delta also flew from PDX to Fukuoka, for which the airport code is FUK. Big grin

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineLsjef From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

DAL at PDX is a good example of some of the changing trends in aviation. Specifically, when DAL started its Japan service from PDX, the expectation was that eventually PDX would evolve into a big transPacific hub. But, a few factors intervened. First, new fleet technology extended ranges, making routes like JFK, ATL, and DFW to Japan all possible, eliminating the need for the jumpoff point at PDX. Second, there were issues related to INS at PDX. As I understand the details, Asian nationals were arriving in PDX and, not passing the INS/Customs routine, were being sent back, sometimes even after short jail stays. There were allegations of abusive treatment by INS personnel. But there were also allegations that US Immigration laws had set up an impossible situation that enticed Asian nationals to take a convenient flight to PDX, unaware that they lacked sufficient documentation to get past INS/Customs. The Port of Portland raised a huge stink over this and, eventually, the PDX INS head retired.

In the final analysis, change happens. DAL made a wise move leaving PDX because they were losing too much money there and could better serve passengers by relocating their fleet to where the passengers are. Now, if only the Port of Portland could figure out what to do with all their unused gates, and quit looking for others to blame...


User currently offlineAirnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1224 times:

Well said Lsjef, though I do have one disagreement. There is wide evidence to support the fact that DL discontinuing the final Asian flights out of PDX (especially the NRT) was a strategic move rather than for lack of sufficient profit. Load factors were always well over 60-70% on this route, usually in the 75-85% range. They just wanted to concentrate int'l service at larger population bases to set themselves up as a player vs. UA and AA.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1221 times:

At what times were the Delta Japan departures? When I was waiting for my flight a few weeks ago in Portland I was disappointed by the lack of Delta jets on the ground. The only thing I saw in my 2 hours sitting at the food court was a tired looking 727, presumably in from SLC. I know DL does fly 767s and the MD11s into PDX.

As a sidenote you can see how ambitious Delta was with PDX, 6 of the gates on the D concourse all have the lat/long coordinates above the gates to calibrate their long haul aircrafts INS systems. While loads may have been decent at Portland, more money is to be had at Atlanta, LAX, and New York... bottom line.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineN960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 466 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1215 times:

Its kind of sad DL will be pulling out of PDX. But I guess that's life. I know what you mean DesertJets, if you're at PDX anytime that's not during 10am-1pm the DL gates are dead. I go to Portland a lot and since I'm usually there earlier in the morning or in the evening I hardly ever see the DL bank. However if you're there form 10am on to about 1pm its very nice. There are MD11s that come in from ATL and CVG, and ones that come in from Japan. Also there is a 763 from JFK and some smaller planes (722, 733, CRJ) from SLC, LAX, SFO, SEA and some other places that come in. But for most of the time the large amount of DL gates are dead! In the early morning (8ish and before) there is a 763 to ATL and 767 to SLC and a 752 to CVG plus I thnk a 733 to DFW. The envenings are pretty dull...

I hope to get back to PDX before March 31st to get some shots of the DLs there...

J
J


User currently offlineAirnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

As N960AS said, There is the bank of DL arrivals and departures of widebodies about mid-day and that's pretty much it. If you're there a little earlier you can catch the hawaiian DC10, I just had to drop a friend off for this flight a month or so ago. Sort of nice to see being that the Hawaiian livery can only be cought at 5 or so airports on the mainland.

It'll be sad to see DL go...I'm still counting on KE, ANA or another domestic picking up the NRT route. It is profitable if run correctly (using AS or UA as partner and feeder) ANA already does a freight flight a couple days every week and Korean does the same every day (I believe)

You all may have already seen this pic, but its a great one from better days as DL's Asian Gateway.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



and a few more of my fav's as well...


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto





User currently offlineThomacf From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

How big of a decline in passenger traffic will occur after these flights are gone? What is the approx. passenger traffic now? Where will all the MD-11's be relocated?

User currently offlineLsjef From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1144 times:

In 2000, PDX had roughly 14M passengers, 14% by DAL. DAL is smaller at PDX than ASA, UAL, SWA and QXE. DAL plans to scale back but remain at PDX, but there could easily be a 5-10% drop following their move. This is a significant pause in many years of strong growth at PDX. With the new improvements to Concourse C soon to come online, PDX should have enough quiet gate space to open a large branch library...

See www.portofportland.com for more information (they have pages of aviation statistics for PDX).

If anyone knows, I would be curious to know how much of DAL's PDX traffic is through-passenger; is there a source for this statistic, or is this privileged company info?


User currently offlineLsjef From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Forgot to add...

...great pictures, Airnondo! Thanks for sharing!


User currently offlineAirnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1137 times:

My peasure...thanks goes out to the photographer.

One thing's for sure, the "Oregon Market" at PDX is going to be sad to see the asian flights go, I know these int'l transfer pax were a good chunk of sales. Not sure exactly what the ratio of transfering pax to O&D was though.


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

As a sidenote you can see how ambitious Delta was with PDX, 6 of the gates on the D concourse all have the lat/long coordinates above the gates to calibrate their long haul aircrafts INS systems. While loads may have been decent at Portland, more money is to be had at Atlanta, LAX, and New York... bottom line.

I think that says it all....

Everybody at PDX FTO was so excited about the Japan flights, they were supposed to get the B-777 once it was ready for transpacific service....

All gone now. Like it was a dream or something.

I hope UAL comes in w/ the B-777 to NRT, but I doubt that is realistic.

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Question about the pic with 5 MD11s.......

Why are there 5 MD11s at PDX. I can understand a couple for the NGO and NRT, but where are the other ones going???

Thanks


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

PDX is a stop on DL51 ATL-PDX-NRT and DL75 CVG-PDX-NGO. There used to be more flights, but they have already been moved to LAX or elsewhere.

So some are outbound, some are inbound and continuing on to the eastern hubs.

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1099 times:

thanks DeltaSFO....do you see any delta widebodies at SFO....which ones?

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

We get the 767-200, -300, -400ER, and the L-1011 here in SFO.

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineN960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 466 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1086 times:

I thought I read somewhere that the city of Portland would loose a million dollars a year. I don't remember where I read that, or if it is even true or what it means exactly.

If DL cuts Asian routes and all the feeder [mainline and SkyWest] flights a lot is lost. I'm guessing many job cuts at PDX. They won't need as many gate agents for one thing. Then they won't need as many services, such as catering and cleaning, etc. Also they'll probably stop leasing some gates [although I don't know how many they own, if any]. That would more directly effect the city.

I don't know who would want to pick up those routes. I mean if the INS was so terrible who would want to deal with them? Plus UA could is the only airline that could reasonably do it. But the route would most likely be uneeded. They already have tons of Asian fligths from LA and SF plus one or two at SEA.

As for freight which is a big issue I know Korean Cargo operates from PDX to LA or something, at PDX and I've seen Cargolux there, in addition to UPS, FedEx, Emery, BAX, USPS, etc...

Nwa747,

5 MD11s doesn't make sense now, 4 at one time does, I've seen that, 1 arriving from CVG and going to NGO, one arriving from ATL and going to NRT, one from NRt to ATL, and one from NGO to CVG. I guess schedules have changesd...

now, here are my questions...
-Will DL still use widebodies to PDX? I'm guessing there won't be a lot, but maybe just the morning ATL flight or something will stay 763, I hope so...
-I heard they will only keep ATL, SLC and CVG flights is this true, does anyone know? I thought I read that some companies in OR wanted them to keep the JFK flight and that DL would move it to a morning departure to JFK non stop, but on a 752. And DFW is still up in the air?

Thanks

J


User currently offlineAirnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1074 times:

To answer a few recent questions...

As Nickofatlanta stated up top...
In the past DL has served the following Asian cities from PDX: Seoul (South Korea), Fukuoka (Japan), Taipei (Taiwan) and Bangkok (Thailand) - via Taipei. They had rights to serve Osaka (Japan) from PDX, but it never happened. They also served Hong Kong nonstop from LAX, but gave it up.

A mix of these flights plus the NGO, NRT, and connecting domestic flights should explain the 5 MD11's at one time.

As for the flights DL will keep out of PDX they are SLC, DFW, CVG, ATL, and JFK. To my knowledge they will be droping the following feeders SFO, YVR, SEA, LAX, and LAX. To which all are well serviced by other airlines.

As for the question whether PDX can support asian flights in the future?
Probably not an NGO or Tapai, but I know an Tokyo flight will work as long as the airline is in partnership with UA or AS. The problem with DL was that they are simply a week airline out west, they lack the loyal biz FF's. that UA and AS have in the Pacific Northwest. Another explanation for the change is that wall street no longer likes the idea of int'l gateway cities. All the rage is to go with point to point or quick connections for trans-pacific flights. Look where all the trans-pacific growth is... on the east coast!

~mtc


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

You would think that since they moved the Japan fligths to LAX, that they would keep the PDX-LAX feeder flights. But you are correct, that route is served very well by AS and UA.

But if you were a loyal DL customer wanting to go to Japan, would you buy a ticket on another airline to go all the way down to LAX? Or would you just grab a United flight to SFO or SEA and go to Japan that way? It seems as if DL is giving up a lot of NW area Pacific travellers by not offering connections to its transpacific service out of LAX.


User currently offlineLsjef From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

PDX is slowly realizing that it simply is not and will not in the near future be the booming transPacific hub it was being developed as ten years ago. PDX is lucky to have the development that it does, and this may serve it well in a few years if capacity issues at SEA, SFO or LAX lead an airline to retry the PDX oceanic hub idea. But, until then, I suspect DAL has a hard time justifying widebodies to PDX for passenger traffic to ATL, CVG, or DFW. Take away the oceanic feed and those flights probably won't fill up enough with Pacific Northwest passengers...especially when compared to other options DAL can use those widebodies for.

Last summer there was lots of talk in the Portland newspapers about the economic impact of DAL's down-sizing, and it was quantified. The Port of Portland even stated in one article their willingness to front something like a million dollars to sweeten things for DAL to keep the hub.

Re: five widebodies...does anyone remember roughly when the third trans-oceanic was dropped...sometime in the past two years, or was it even before that?


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