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QF Ridiculous J Pricing On JFK-SYD And DL 77L  
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12746 times:

I know some people have been talking about the idea of ATL-SYD, but I really feel that there is a market opportunity for DL to open up JFK-SYD nonstop on the 77L.

I absolutely cannot believe what Qantas is charging for F and J class on the JFK-SYD route; $25,870 and $19,372 respectively. These prices seem completely off the scale relative to most routes of similar length. QF obviously has found that the market will bear this price on the route to be running 744s 7 days a week stopping in LAX.

What I don't understand is why that is the case, when SQ is charging $11,524 to fly the route one stop via SIN, and that the EWR-SIN segment is only $7,936 (both in SQ's superior J product).

What would the weight restrictions be on the route from JFK-SYD on a 77L? Unlike some people, I think that there are enough people on the east coast of the US who would like to take the transcon segment (& LAX) out of their trips to Australia.

Delta has the opportunity to "out flank" Qantas on this route by providing a nonstop, flat bed product on the 77L at a reduced fare compared to QF. The new BizElite product on the 77L is better for sleeping than the angled "flat" skybed on QF. I completely despise angled seats in J and go out of my way to avoid them. In addition, QF lacks the equipment to respond with nonstop service of their own for the foreseeable future.

I'm not a DL fanatic, but I know that I'll choose a real flat seat in J, nonstop, at a lower fare than QF on JFK-SYD over a one-stop QF as soon as I possibly can. DL has the plane and the product to offer such a service, as well as a strong local loyalty to SkyTeam in NYC to feed it.

Could this be a viable option for them?

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12642 times:

Where do you go to get your fares from???? In Australia purchased from a travel Agent the return fares in AUD are about 40% cheaper than that or about 50 to 60% cheaper for corporate fares.

User currently offlineEvers From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12610 times:

QF have a complete monopoly on the Aus - US market, even economy class flights are way over priced because they have no competition.

User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12543 times:



Quoting Evers (Reply 2):
QF have a complete monopoly on the Aus - US market, even economy class flights are way over priced because they have no competition.

UA?


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12440 times:



Quoting Evers (Reply 2):
QF have a complete monopoly on the Aus - US market, even economy class flights are way over priced because they have no competition.

No competition?? I just sent a family to SYD from LAX on UA. From there they ar off to New Zealand and back to SYD and then back to LAX on UA so QF does not have a monoply .

Regards,

Mark in MKE
I



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12411 times:

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 1):
Where do you go to get your fares from???? In Australia purchased from a travel Agent the return fares in AUD are about 40% cheaper than that or about 50 to 60% cheaper for corporate fares.

I got these fares off of the Qantas website for JFK-SYD-JFK on QF108 and QF107 for Wed, 8 October 2008 and returning Tue, 21 Oct 2008. The prices are in USD.

The only comparable fares to these prices are those I've seen are on some of UAs flights to China.

Adjusted for inflation it was cheaper to fly the PAA Boeing 314s from San Francisco to Hong Kong ($1520 R/T in 1940, which is now about $22,470) than First on Qantas JFK-SYD ($25,870). That's progress for you. I know which one I'd choose!!!

[Edited 2008-03-06 20:36:39]

User currently offlineBjwonline From UK - England, joined Mar 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12286 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 5):
No competition?? I just sent a family to SYD from LAX on UA

Yes clearly QF do have some (limited) competition with UA, though it has been said on these forums many times that the two service products are quite different both on-board and with frequency. UA (or anyone else for that matter) do not offer any service that can compete with what QF currently have on this route.

Looking at UA for the same dates currently has First for $25152 and Business for $18171 USD which is typical (always within a few hundred dollars of each other) so obviously the competition is currently not strong enough!

Both UA and especially QF need some new competition on this route to make it much more in line with fares of similar distance and a non-stop service further eastward being either ATL or JFK on DL would be much welcomed on this route


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12245 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 5):
I got these fares off of the Qantas website for JFK-SYD-JFK on QF108 and QF107 for Wed, 8 October 2008 and returning Tue, 21 Oct 2008. The prices are in USD.

anyone using the QF site for fares must enjoy getting slugged..

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23327936-5014090,00.html

here is the story...



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12232 times:

I suspect the fact that a lot of traffic to the UN and HQ's of large companies are paying for these tickets has a lot to do with QF getting away with it. So its really big firms, or arms of government paying these fares largely because these people are time poor.

And yes the prices are crazy. Absolutely Crazy. I'm not a DL fan, but if they did start a non-stop service to JFK I for one would take it.

The price of Syd-LAX in business should really be around the 5 or 6 thousand dollar mark.. so from New York it shouldn't really be anymore then another $1000 each way at the max. Bring on some competition! I suspect we may get this when V Australia starts flying, obviously linking New York up to Virgin America. They're planning on entering the market with aggressive schedules which smells of them going after the business passenger... So I for one am expecting them to slash the price of the business class cabin. They haven't said it yet but I would be highly surprised if the product doesn't closely resemble Virgin Altantic.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12219 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Thread starter):
I absolutely cannot believe what Qantas is charging for F and J class on the JFK-SYD route; $25,870 and $19,372 respectively. These prices seem completely off the scale relative to most routes of similar length. QF obviously has found that the market will bear this price on the route to be running 744s 7 days a week stopping in LAX.

Those are the full fare top prices which basically no-one pays as the majority of tickets are at a discount to that... in fact $15,000 and $12,000 respectively is more what most pay if that... also for F class most people flying in that aren't actually paying for those seats...they are buying J seats and using points to upgrade... people who are rich enough to fly F are usually rich enough to fly privately. Remember that F on most non-USA airlines is considerably different to what F-class is considered to be on USA airlines... I would barely call that Business class yet many call it First.
But yes you are right that QF does have a bit of a monopoly but the trans-Pac has been open to other ailrines for sometime and only UA has really taken it up.... NZ also (via NZL) and AC.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12191 times:



Quoting Evers (Reply 2):
QF have a complete monopoly on the Aus - US market, even economy class flights are way over priced because they have no competition.

Hawaiian packs three flights a week nearly always full, HNL-SYD, and we could do more if we had more planes. Our fares are quite reasonable, even for connecting passengers coming off the west coast of the US.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12080 times:

Another thing that I don't get is that an economy return ticket originating from Australia is twice as expensive than a return ticket originating from US, if you get what I mean. What's the reasoning behind this?

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7615 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11987 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Thread starter):
I know some people have been talking about the idea of ATL-SYD, but I really feel that there is a market opportunity for DL to open up JFK-SYD nonstop on the 77L.

If you think that a longer flight would make fares cheaper, I suspect youre wrong. Longer flights are more expensive to operate and there fore the airline would have to charge more to fly on it. No matter what the airline is.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11908 times:

Three letters which are magic (or black magic depending on which department you work in...) to an airline's ears: CVA. Better known as Corporate Volume Agreements, they are the "contracts" which many like to throw around and discuss on here. There's a reason why the full FRT or full JRT will always be that high: many of the CVA's have ungodly large discounts for flights, upwards of 40-50%...no one...EVER...will pay that $25K fare on any of the flights.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11784 times:

Oh I might point out a few good deals I've found to get between these cities.

The first is on JAL. usually about $5.5K, via NRT and includes a free hotel for the one leg that doesn't connect.

The next is QF to NRT and then AA onwards. about the same price as above and connects in both directions, IF you take the QF overnight flight to NRT. Only problem is JFK is specifically excluded by QF on this fare, however just about every major city AA flies to IS included. So you just need to pick an airport slightly outside NY or say pick BOS or IAD and get on the shuttle.

These fares are ex Australia so no idea if you can get them in the US but i suspect discount travel agencies would have access to something similar.


User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11745 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):
If you think that a longer flight would make fares cheaper, I suspect youre wrong. Longer flights are more expensive to operate and there fore the airline would have to charge more to fly on it. No matter what the airline is.

I'm fully aware of your argument. I understand the inefficiencies of operating ULH flights. Unfortunately that little airline in Singapore believes that they only need to charge $8,000 per person for 100 people to fly the 8,285nm from EWR to SIN in J on an A340-500, the perennial whipping-boy of inefficiency on this website. I would assume that they are doing this because they intend to make money on the route.

The point is that QF is attempting to charge far more than double the appropriate market price for their service, because as many have pointed out, there is not enough competition on the route.

I'd pay $10,000 to fly non-stop on DL's new product on their 77L on the route. I don't think that DL would even charge that much.

Apparently a DL exec said on their 77L delivery flight that they would be interested in Boeing increasing the range further on the 777, with the intention of flying to SYD. My guess is that the clock is ticking on QF and the question is if DL will do this but when.


User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11731 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Thread starter):
What would the weight restrictions be on the route from JFK-SYD on a 77L? Unlike some people, I think that there are enough people on the east coast of the US who would like to take the transcon segment (& LAX) out of their trips to Australia.

I don't think JFK-SYD can be done, even on the 77L. The Great Circle Distance is 9950mi and realistically, the range for the 77L is 8000mi. You'd have to get the weight down considerably to make it viable and in my opinion, the trade off makes no sense since the straight route on the great circle goes down almost over LA and Hawaii. To make a 90 min stop at LAX is absolutely worth the effort if you can put a full payload on the aircraft. ATL-SYD won't make it either, although there would be less of a weight penalty...

I do agree with you that QFs pricing seems a little ridiculous; considering that it is far less to buy an F ticket JFK-LAX and combine it with a J ticket on QF. The difference in price is sufficient that I'd change airlines...

Also, I don't know that I would compare SQ via SIN, since the distance is so much more. Not too many people are going to fly to SIN to go to SYD from the east coast, when they can take a five hour flight to LAX and then do the l o n g flight from there...which tends to be not as long as advertised.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11689 times:

From the Australian end there has been discussion about whether Qantas would need a special version of the 787 to do JFK-SYD as a non stop. One stop through California would still be a good option for Delta.

One alternative routing that some people use is to fly via Asia. This may require a night stop along the way. If you travel JAL, they will give you a hotel night at NRT on some fares. KE through SEL or CX via HKG are other possibilities.


User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11620 times:

Only a space alien and their good friends earth morons would pay that price. It is just a rack price which nobody with a brain would even contemplate.

User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11488 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 15):
The point is that QF is attempting to charge far more than double the appropriate market price for their service, because as many have pointed out, there is not enough competition on the route.

Not from what I have read here, they are charging a modest premium over their only direct competitor.
That would make it near the apprpriate market rate not double it. Sure more competition on the route may change the "market rate" but right now they are near it.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11480 times:



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 7):

anyone using the QF site for fares must enjoy getting slugged..

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23327936-5014090,00.html

here is the story...

HAHA thats Awesome.

I like this quote: 'A ticket to New York via London can be bought for less from British Airways.'


User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11459 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 15):
I'd pay $10,000 to fly non-stop on DL's new product on their 77L on the route. I don't think that DL would even charge that much.

Apparently a DL exec said on their 77L delivery flight that they would be interested in Boeing increasing the range further on the 777, with the intention of flying to SYD. My guess is that the clock is ticking on QF and the question is if DL will do this but when.

I'm sorry, but where do you feature in Delta Air Lines? Is that even an comparison or did you just pull it out of the air? Just because DL is getting new 772LRs doesn't mean they should start SYD.

- There is no SkyTeam carrier in Australia. What is DL going to do if they can't fill a 772LR on such a long flight?
- The traffic from India to the US is tremendous and DL has great connections from JFK to be able to pick up Indian traffic from anywhere in the country
- Did you know that more people travel on the suburban trains in Mumbai alone, in a day, than the population of Australia? Do the math, the size of the market is enormous. India has the fastest growing middle class in the world
- Traditionally, India has been Delta's fortress. Their yields will be considerably more than they can ever have on JFK SYD.

Perhaps you can persuade other carriers with links to AU already to start more frequencies??

cheers
WindowSeat



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11406 times:

Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 5):
No competition?? I just sent a family to SYD from LAX on UA

Yes clearly QF do have some (limited) competition with UA, though it has been said on these forums many times that the two service products are quite different both on-board and with frequency. UA (or anyone else for that matter) do not offer any service that can compete with what QF currently have on this route.[/quote]

I strongly beg to differ. Aside from frequency and PTVs in Y, QF's product is hardly superior to UAs. The service is the same, if not occasionally better on UA.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 7):
anyone using the QF site for fares must enjoy getting slugged..

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23327936-5014090,00.html

here is the story...

Good for SQ! They will do well with this...


User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11351 times:



Quoting WindowSeat (Reply 21):
I'm sorry, but where do you feature in Delta Air Lines? Is that even an comparison or did you just pull it out of the air? Just because DL is getting new 772LRs doesn't mean they should start SYD.

how about this article from another thread:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10406...elta-the-biggest-and-the-best.html

Quote:
"Last week, Delta executives traveled to Seattle to take delivery of the carrier's first new aircraft in six years, a Boeing 777-200LR with more range than any existing commercial jet. As the plane flew to Atlanta, Executive Vice President Glen Hauenstein told reporters that Delta has asked Boeing for a 777 with even more range, so that it might one day fly to Sydney.

Asked about the potential of Delta's hub at Kennedy International Airport, where the carrier occupies the terminal it acquired from Pan Am in 1991, Hauenstein responded: "I think it's a limit of how big can you dream. We have some big dreams in New York.

Read into that what you will.

While I loved your fun facts about India, you'll notice that I never even came close to implying that DL should fly to SYD in lieu of their operations to India. Delta is the only US carrier that currently has the ambitions and equipment on order to launch a service from the US East Coast to Australia in the foreseeable future. Qantas has proved that the market exists but lacks the equipment to offer a non-stop.


User currently offlineAmax1977 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11243 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Thread starter):
QF obviously has found that the market will bear this price on the route to be running 744s 7 days a week stopping in LAX.



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 5):
I got these fares off of the Qantas website for JFK-SYD-JFK on QF108 and QF107 for Wed, 8 October 2008 and returning Tue, 21 Oct 2008. The prices are in USD.

UA is offering F class seat on the same dates, same route (Stop in LAX) for the same price: $25,152.80 (Got the price from UA website)


25 RJ111 : The problem with SYD-NYC, is that you'd have to heavily on simply O&D at the NYC end. Which i'm sure is substantial, but also consider you will be get
26 777STL : I'm sorry, but this begs the question, where does someone in the 21-25 yo age bracket get $10,000 to drop on a J class flight to Australia? lol Uhh r
27 Post contains images Ansett767 : It's all personal opinion but I have to say being a Star alliance member I would rather fly QF's J class product over UA's anyday. And the service on
28 EmiratesUK : QF DO NOT have the monopoly on the US-OZ runs.... Direct they only have UA, but with a one stop service they have AC, NZ, TN, HA, FJ, and then if you
29 QantasHeavy : ????? Don't know about that... I find AA's First Flagship Suite is nicer than QF's First. And the QF, BA and UA seats and setup are virtually the sam
30 AA7295 : UA only serves SYD direct, whereas QF also serves BNE and MEL direct. Two significant other markets. A little trick. If you book the flights through
31 Nzrich : Yes and for about the same you can fly NZ and go on a more direct route with no back tracking and a great business premier bed and service ex LAX-NYC
32 Archer : Why not try Air New Zealand. I flew them to Sydney last May from LAX. Star Alliance and great service. New planes. 777 and 747-400 . You do need to ch
33 Jfk777 : Atlanta to Sydney would be a better market. If DL can sell South Africa from Atlanta, as they have been successfully for over year, they can sell Aust
34 Expressjetphx : What he is saying is that Delta would have to fly to SYD in lieu of their operations to India because the 77Ls will be tied up in the Indian ops and
35 EA772LR : Actually the range with a full payload and passengers is 7500nm or about 8630mi. So no a 77L couldn't do JFK-SYD with full payload. However with the
36 LAXdude1023 : SQ is also going to an all biz class configuration on that route because it was losing money on it. SQ charges less and they lost money. In order for
37 EA772LR : Possibly not for long with the 77Ls coming online...
38 Pope : That's easy --- "daddy"
39 Jbernie : I am not sure why QF or UA would suddenly go crazy and slash fares on this route. Yes more competition can reduce fares but at the same time the rout
40 777STL : Would a ULH flight on the 77L even be viable for this route? You're acting like DL could just enter this route and make a killing, charging drasticall
41 Jfk777 : A few years ago when QF was looking at Sydney-LHR-SYD NONSTOP with the 77L, JFK to SYD was shorter and could go nonstop both ways the QF people doing
42 LAXdude1023 : The economics of ULH are nowhere near that simple and personally I think Atlanta to SYD would be a failure. Theres no market, its a horrible geograph
43 Expressjetphx : Commercial transportation is an organic industry as far as growth goes; airlines fly where the customer base indicates that it wants to be flown. It
44 IronDuke08 : Thanks for the assumptions and personal attacks. I'm not going to discuss my personal finances here. I have flown on QF's F product several times ove
45 LAXdude1023 : A sound airline like SQ wont fix what isnt broken. The problem was that they struggled making money on the route. TG has the same problem with LAX/JF
46 Singapore_Air : "Given a choice, Singapore Airlines would not launch ultra-long-haul flights today, CEO C. S. Chew told The DAILY." Source: Aviation Daily, 2006
47 IronDuke08 : haha I guess this business is even more screwed up than I imagined.
48 777STL : Problem is, is that people on the left coast aren't going to want to backtrack as far as Atlanta or even JFK to fly to OZ. Especially to connect to a
49 LAXdude1023 : Beyond that, California is by far the largest market to SYD and Australia.
50 Fbgdavidson : That's completely bunk. That's no different to saying no-one flies business class because they are usually rich enogh to afford First! There is prett
51 Rwy04LGA : In another thread I said that the nonstop JFK-SYD leg is 9950mi and with an overfly of SAN to avoid Mexican airspace, it would be only 6 miles longer
52 Post contains links Viscount724 : JFK-SYD in nautical miles is 8646 nm (9950 statute miles). Boeing shows SYD as just within maximum range of the 77L with maximum passenger load (but
53 Post contains images Rwy04LGA : Thanks, Viscount! (Sorry, I prefer the Vanguard...BEA...EDI-LHR...I was 14 )
54 Jamie86 : LOL do people not realise they DO have a choice when it comes to flying. If you look around, prices to tend to get cheaper. But if u are wanting the m
55 Viscount724 : I liked the Vanguard too, but my first flight at age 8 was on an AC (then TCA) Viscount YEG-YYC, then the only turbine-powered airliner in service in
56 LAXdude1023 : How does that make it screwed up? So it hard to make money on ULH, so what? Is it that bad that one city isnt connecting with a direct link to every
57 UA772IAD : Its definitely opinion. Frankly though, I would rather take UA's grannies who have always provided me with good friendly service over QFs downright r
58 Zkpilot : From what I hear (feel free to correct if wrong) in Y on UA you get the meal, with a bar service, tea/coffee, crew disappear until breakfast into LAX
59 Cpd : They aren't quite like that. The cabin staff are always nearby, but they do make themselves scarce and don't go thundering up and down the aisles. If
60 Gilesdavies : I thought Air NZ operates between SYD-LAX non-stop too, and fly this route as a reciprocal agreement with both the NZ and AUS governments as QF flies
61 Viscount724 : NZ used to operate SYD-LAX nonstop but I believe they dropped the route when their Australian domestic partner, Ansett, went out of business, and the
62 Zkpilot : and an agreement with UA for UA to pull out of AKL-LAX and NZ to pull out of SYD-LAX
63 Mariner : Not in my experience. In my business, show biz, the various employing corporations are required to provide several categories of employees with first
64 Koruman : My company gets a 35% discount more or less with Qantas, but fares are so inflated that that is still over $14,000 for SYD-LAX. No-one on business wo
65 Zkpilot : Well I'm thinking the likes of Peter Jackson, David Beckham, and a lot of bands etc like U2 etc they all tend to fly in private jets... even back in
66 LAXdude1023 : Exactly. This has been my view all along. A flight from ATL-SYD, has no chance of survival and a flight from NYC-SYD doesnt have a great chance of su
67 Mariner : Yes, they do. But there are extraordinary numbers of executives and artists - at a high level, but not A list - who fly first class. The corporate je
68 Koruman : Not true actually. Was certainly true when Air NZ had a first class, but Qantas Frequent Flyer is designed to make upgrades to high-yield seats virtu
69 Jamie86 : Funny, because we had 7 F class upgrades on our flight from LAX to MEL 3 nights ago.
70 Airnewzealand : People, People, People... They charge these prices because they can. At the moment...J/C is booked SOLID from JFK-SYD (You will most likely pay those
71 Koruman : Exactly. Which is why it would be good if Air New Zealand had the guts to dedicate 4 777-200ER aircraft to flying SYD-LAX and SYD-SFO, even though Qa
72 Planetime : Good Point. I also think the premium demand between JFK-SYD is very good hence why they stated due to Business customers they made the QF 107/108 dai
73 UA772IAD : The service flow on UA is as follows: First trolley comes by with beverages and a snack (pretzels) Meal service follows shortly thereafter with the b
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