Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Safety Implications For Angled Seats  
User currently offlineFlymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2673 times:


Hope you see the picture - first time I'm linking an image!
Don't know if this has been discussed before - did a search but nothing similar came up? I would presume that studies were done on the predicted results should and aircraft with angled seats as in the picture above make a crash landing. Does anyone have any idea what effect the deceleration would have on a passenger in the above seat as apposed to the normal forward facing seat. What sort of forces will the passenger be subjected to as a result of sitting at an angle to the direction of flight?
Would this thread be better directed to the tech forum
Many thanks

[Edited 2008-03-06 22:02:26]

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

One thing you will note is that the seatbelt here, and on other similar seats, contains an airbag.

User currently offlineSkytony From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

United Airlines' new first class suite is at an angle as well and is quipped with a three point seat belt during take off and landing.


Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
User currently offlineSkytony From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Opps "united first class seats are equipped with three point seatbelts"


Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

It seems very strange to me having seats placed so the passengers have their backs to the window. Its like putting seats in a movie theatre all facing the side wall. I know theres nothing to see out there but everyone likes to look out the window

User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

absolute agree Antonovman.
I really wondered about the flying feeling having to look "into" the cabin all the time. Furthermore you need to bend your neck all the time to get an outside view.
Would be really nice to listen to someone who experienced those seats.


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

As noted previously, the company Amsafe specifically designed airbags for these Herringbone seats. The airbag actually has to be utilized in ensure compliance with the FAA 16G survival rule. VS, CX, AC and DL are/will all use the airbag seatbelt for these side-way facing seats. (CX uses a three point belt for the B747 fleet only.)

Quoting Flymad (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any idea what effect the deceleration would have on a passenger in the above seat as apposed to the normal forward facing seat.

They are more likely to suffer a headstrike on the lateral wall surface. Unlike the seat back on a conventional aircraft seat, these side walls are not designed to absorb the energy of a head impact.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Originally most airliner seats were rear facing because it was assumed they would be safer.

The key executive seats on many business jets today are rear facing for safety reasons.

Airlines have operated aircraft in the past, and I think some still do, with passengers belted in couch type seating 90 degrees to the direction of travel. Many more business jets have that type of sideways seating.

In general the floor mounts for the aircraft seat, even in first and business class, will fail before the passenger will receive enough force from the seat belt for a fatal injury.

Airplane crashes are unlike automobile crashes. Those usually involve a very hard stop and a major source of injury is being thrown backward in reaction to the sudden stop. Survivable aircraft crashes dissipate the forward movement forces much slower and over a longer period than automobile wrecks.

If an aircraft hits something to stop as suddenly as an automobile - the passenger and crew do not have the forward force protection of an automobile. A survivable automobile crash with a sudden stop at 60 mph/ 100 kph is not survivable in an aircraft. The seat floor mounts will fail and the fuselage will crush to 40-50% of it's normal length.

Aircraft crashes also frequently involve a lot more lateral forces than automobiles - so the direction the seat is facing is not as much of an issue as in automobiles.

Aircraft simply are not structurally strong enough to keep the passenger protected in heavy impact crashes like automobiles - even the automobiles of 50 years ago.


User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

I have experienced Virgin's Upper Class, which has a herringbone pattern. As far as the outside seats, I guess a lot of people don't really look out the windows that much anyway, for it to matter. also, in an arrangement like this you have a lot more open space, so it's not like you are closed in like you are in economy. Having said that, from the center aisle row, it's actually really nice - because you are in fact looking out over a wall of windows, not sideways through one. True, you are also looking AT all the passengers in front of you, but you get over that quickly. The one thing I was surprised at is the feeling of taking off at such an angle. You definitely notice it, particularly at landing time, but it wasn't as unpleasant as I expected.


"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26536 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2189 times:



Quoting Skytony (Reply 2):
United Airlines' new first class suite is at an angle

No, and neither are the business class ones.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 7):

Aircraft simply are not structurally strong enough to keep the passenger protected in heavy impact crashes like automobiles - even the automobiles of 50 years ago.

Aircraft involve much higher speeds than automobiles.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSkytony From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2079 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):

I wasn't referring to it being an angled lie flat, I was referring to the first class suite being at an angle in relation to the direction it faces in the seat mode. It is angled towards the aisle, that is why it is equipped with a shoulder belt similar to a three point seat belt found in a car.



Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

It would be better if all airline seats were equipped with a 3 point belt like automobiles.

The leading cause of injury is most probably people not being belted in during turbulence. A 3 point belt would be much easier to the FA to check and do a better job of keeping people in their seats.

But that isn't going to happen for many reasons. One is weight, another is the attachment points.

Automobile seat belts are bolted to the structural elements of the car.

Aircraft seat belts are bolted to the seat and the seat mounting to the floor/ aircraft is weaker than the seatbelt mounting.

[Edited 2008-03-10 08:05:13]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25457 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1802 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 7):
Originally most airliner seats were rear facing because it was assumed they would be safer.

I'm pretty sure they still are rear-facing on RAF transport aircraft. The RAF has always considered rear-facing seats to be safer.

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 4):
I know theres nothing to see out there but everyone likes to look out the window

I'm not so sure about that. I would bet that the majority of frequent business travellers who make up the major market for these products prefer aisle seats. I certainly do simply because I don't like being trapped and having to climb over a sleeping passenger. And many traditional business class reclining seats do virtually trap the window-seat passenger when the aisle seat is fully reclined even at 60 inch pitch.

My personal preference on aircraft with 2-2-2 seating is one of the two seats in the center section as you always have direct access to an aisle without having to disturb another passenger (or be disturbed). That's one major benefit of the herringbone layout. And many passengers would probably prefer to sit at a slight angle rather than facing backwards like half the seats (including all window seats) in the BA Club World layout.


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1780 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 7):
The key executive seats on many business jets today are rear facing for safety reasons.

That's an urban legend if I've ever heard one!



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

If you are ever in an aircraft accident, the odds that the deciding factor in life or death is an angled are very slim.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6398 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1604 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):

I'm pretty sure they still are rear-facing on RAF transport aircraft. The RAF has always considered rear-facing seats to be safer.

As does the USAF  Wink Most non-crew seats on USAF transports are rear-facing as well...unless it's a VIP bird.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1558 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Apparently, the angled seats on the newest DL 777LR have a small LED light that shows the FA that your seat belt is latched.

I do agree that they are not designed to look out the windows. Makes one wonder why the big deal about bigger windows in the 787.


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1485 times:



Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 16):
small LED light that

The LED informs the flight attendant that the seat is in the proper fully upright position, but not the status of the seat belt. The air bag seat belt must still be visually confirmed by the cabin crew, for one very important reason: they crew must ensure the belt is not twisted. (The back of the airbag seatbelt has a safety placard that the cabin crew will see if the belt is indeed twisted.)

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 13):
That's an urban legend if I've ever heard one!

While it is true that rear facing seats are safer (that is why flight attendants frequently are in rear facing seats, as they are considered essential safety "equipment"), the fact that business jets use this design for this reason is probably not true. Most biz-jet seats can actually rotate 180 degrees so that the passenger can face forward as well. Also, business jets have side facing seats, which we call the "death seat"...you really, really don't want to be sitting there in an accident. While humans are remarkably resilient at surviving rear and frontal impacts, side impacts are poorly tolerated. If biz-jets were designed with ensuring the survival of their occupants, they would remove the side facing seats.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
SQ A340-500 No PTVs For Two Seats? posted Fri Aug 24 2007 19:33:31 by AirCanada014
AA MX Designs Safety Device For 757 Fuel Tank posted Tue Apr 24 2007 15:19:26 by MGASJO
Looking For Airplane Seats..... posted Tue Jan 2 2007 01:32:10 by AADC10137
Website For Best Seats In Aircraft posted Wed Aug 2 2006 12:55:09 by Jumbopilot
Airlines To Charge For Aisle Seats? posted Thu Apr 13 2006 01:09:27 by Osubuckeyes
Northwest To Charge Extra For Choice Seats posted Tue Mar 14 2006 10:09:39 by SFORunner
Emergency / Safety Videos For Download posted Mon Nov 7 2005 00:54:39 by Mh148
Implications For CO If IAH Closes posted Thu Sep 22 2005 14:12:13 by ARGinLON
BAe + Boeing--Implications For Airbus? posted Tue Nov 30 2004 20:29:38 by N328KF
Safety Records For Russian Aviation posted Tue Mar 23 2004 04:22:42 by Trijetfan1