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FL To Sell 2 Planes, Scale Back Growth Plans  
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7201 times:



Quote:
Orlando-based AirTran Airways will sell two jets in April, AirTran President and Chief Executive Bob Fornaro said this morning, as the airline continues to scale back its growth plans amid record fuel costs.

Speaking at the Raymond James Annual Institutional Investor Conference, Fornaro added that the plane sales won't be the last growth cuts AirTran makes. "We're going to adjust our fleet plans further," he said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/03/airtran-to-sell.html

Additionally...

Quote:
The outgoing chief financial officer at AirTran Airways has been named president and chief executive officer of Sun Country Airlines.

Stan Gadek will begin at Sun Country on Monday, the airline said. Orlando-based AirTran announced that Gadek would be leaving last month. Gadek, who lives in Orlando, has been with AirTran since August 2000 and he was responsible for the carrier's finance, accounting, revenue accounting and budgeting. He has also worked for Continental Airlines and Northwest Airlines, among other carriers.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/03/airtran-exec-ta.html

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7091 times:

I wonder which they'll be selling? I'd say 737 since the 717 seems to be their workhorse.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7023 times:

I was working a flight this evening and was told that we would be selling or disposing of 10 717's. This surprised me. I guess that is what Bob Fornaro meant when he said "were going to adjust our fleet plans further" Hmmmm. The 2 that will be leaving are the oldest 737's in our fleet. Ships 301 and 302.

User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7022 times:



Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 1):
I'd say 737 since the 717 seems to be their workhorse.

And there's way more of a market for the 737.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7018 times:

Well, if it is the 737, I guess it would be a sell upon delivery type deal like Delta did with a lot of their 738's?


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7008 times:

No this is not a sell upon delivery. We are selling our 2 oldest 737's in our fleet that came on line in 2004. They are still considered relatively new planes!!!

User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6769 times:



Quoting Vulindlela744 (Reply 5):
No this is not a sell upon delivery. We are selling our 2 oldest 737's in our fleet that came on line in 2004. They are still considered relatively new planes!!!

A/c 300 and 301 were looking really shitty when I was there. By now there probably ready to go!



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6695 times:

They are probably pulling a jetblue and selling them prior to MX checks since the used market for 737NG is good and theres such a backlog, plus they have brand new ones on order.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

I can think of so many airlines of the top of my head that would pounce on the opportunity to buy a used 737NG

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6606 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 8):
I can think of so many airlines of the top of my head that would pounce on the opportunity to buy a used 737NG

They still have alot of new ones on order, and since the used market is hot, they can probably dump them before the heavy mx checks, and probably post a gain, while using the new aircraft comming in (double digits for the next 5+ years) to replace and still grow (though slower).



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6469 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
They still have alot of new ones on order, and since the used market is hot, they can probably dump them before the heavy mx checks, and probably post a gain, while using the new aircraft comming in (double digits for the next 5+ years) to replace and still grow (though slower).

yup, these planes are probably due for C/D Check so dump them, save a few million, and take newer 737s


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6429 times:



Quoting Vulindlela744 (Reply 2):
Hmmmm. The 2 that will be leaving are the oldest 737's in our fleet. Ships 301 and 302.

Don't you mean 300 and 301 (N126AT, and N149AT respectively)?

Sounds like kind of a crooked deal (though it isn't), but as it happens in the used car world. "I just got a brand new Mercedes, so you can have my broken down rusted Chevy, I don't wanna pay the mx costs."


User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6115 times:



Quoting B757capt (Reply 6):
A/c 300 and 301 were looking really shitty when I was there. By now there probably ready to go!

If you're referring to the original wool carpets that didn't hold up at all, they've al since been replaced by nylon carpeting. 300 and 301 look just as good as the brand new ones.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6020 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 8):
I can think of so many airlines of the top of my head that would pounce on the opportunity to buy a used 737NG

I'm sure that even DL could be interested in them.

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Reply 2):
I was working a flight this evening and was told that we would be selling or disposing of 10 717's

I'm guessing if this is true it would probably be the first ones delivered, as some of them are close to 9 years old and one of them is almost 10 years old as it was a production prototype prior to being delivered to FL. Considering how much of their fleet they sold and leased back, you almost wonder if perhaps they've got some 717s whose leases are due to expire soon and they'll just return them instead of signing a new lease.

The interesting thing with the 717s is who would take them? The market for the 717 is really limited, and with some of the operators planning on replacing their 717s or are not looking for additional ones, it may be hard to place these a/c elsewhere unless it's a startup carrier (I wonder if the SkyBus founder would be interested? His new airline is looking to operate a/c in the 100 seat range and this could be a way to get a fleet of a/c.).


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2352 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5979 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 13):
The interesting thing with the 717s is who would take them? The market for the 717 is really limited, and with some of the operators planning on replacing their 717s or are not looking for additional ones,

Ironically, I could see a plan where Midwest might take a couple. the new COO has said he wants to expand. TPG has the money. Two more 717's would allow a nice expansion for them. Just a thought.


User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5913 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 13):



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 13):
The interesting thing with the 717s is who would take them? The market for the 717 is really limited, and with some of the operators planning on replacing their 717s or are not looking for additional ones, it may be hard to place these a/c elsewhere unless it's a startup carrier (I wonder if the SkyBus founder would be interested? His new airline is looking to operate a/c in the 100 seat range and this could be a way to get a fleet of a/c.).

Spanair ist interested in adding more 717's....


User currently offlineJettaKnight From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5825 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
yup, these planes are probably due for C/D Check so dump them, save a few million, and take newer 737s

I'm not a used aircraft buyer, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but this logic seems flawed to me. Wouldn't any interested party factor this into the purchase price?


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5808 times:



Quoting JettaKnight (Reply 16):
Wouldn't any interested party factor this into the purchase price?

The 737 line is booked up pretty solid, its the quickest way to get an aircraft, and it will be cheaper than brand new, but the price you pay for being able to get it NOW rather than in 3 years.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJettaKnight From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5622 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 17):
The 737 line is booked up pretty solid, its the quickest way to get an aircraft, and it will be cheaper than brand new, but the price you pay for being able to get it NOW rather than in 3 years.

I guess that does make sense. In a hypothetical comparison, the aircraft needing the expensive checks should sell for less than a similar one with a clean bill of health, but in the real world, the buyer doesn't have any such bargaining power.


User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5600 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 17):
The 737 line is booked up pretty solid

Honestly, since the 737 line is full and since there is a high demand for the 737 aircraft, I think AirTran would sell their older 737s since they would sell quicker.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2352 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

A leasing company could buy the planes and just add the checks' cost inside the lease payment to any airline they would lease them to.. Not too costly then.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4899 times:



Quoting JettaKnight (Reply 16):
I'm not a used aircraft buyer, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but this logic seems flawed to me. Wouldn't any interested party factor this into the purchase price?

You get an "A" unless demand is so high foor 737s that it doesnt matter


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4850 times:



Quoting JettaKnight (Reply 16):
Wouldn't any interested party factor this into the purchase price?

Yes. It's likely selling a stock after the dividend date. It's discounted by the dividend.

But if you need the money, so what? If the heavy check costs X dollars and the plane would be worth 10X dollars if not for the X you have to pay for the heavy check, rather than spending X dollars to do the check, you get 9X dollars for the plane to apply to the 16X dollars it takes to buy the new plane you are about to get.

I'm sure it makes sense to the accountants after they ran the numbers.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4762 times:



Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 20):
A leasing company could buy the planes and just add the checks' cost inside the lease payment to any airline they would lease them to.. Not too costly then.

Actually a good number of AirTran's 717s are leased as earlier in the decade they did some sale and lease back deals in order to generate some capital. Even a significant portion of their 73G fleet is leased from GECAS (When they announced the 73G order, half of them were to be owned, half were to be leased from GECAS.).

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 11):

Don't you mean 300 and 301 (N126AT, and N149AT respectively)?

Both are leased from GECAS, as they are 737-76N's, not 737-7BDs. Perhaps the original lease on them is coming up soon, and why not just go ahead and replace a four year old 73G with a brand new one. Isn't Ryanair doing something along those same lines?


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4242 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 23):
Both are leased from GECAS, as they are 737-76N's

Are these airplanes "different" inside than the -7BDs? or were they ordered to AirTran's specs, but GECAS owns them?
Are the -7BD flight decks/cabins different?


25 Flynavy : If they were leased, FL wouldn't be claiming to "sell" the aircraft. I doubt these two ships will be the ones FL parts with, Vulindlela744's comments
26 Srbmod : Considering that the articles linked in the thread starter don't even mention what a/c (and type) are being sold, there's no telling what they're goi
27 RL757PVD : FL is simply doing somethng that other LCC's such as Rynair and B6 have been doing for a while, and even WN is doing it now too Look at it like this:
28 Sideflare75 : This is doubtful. Midwest has already sold one MD-80 and is cutting two lines of 717 flying so there is likely no expansion in our foreseeable future
29 Warszawa : Probably was referring to the whole interior overall. I flew ship 300 LAS-FNT on Nov 10th and it was looking pretty grungy inside (pretty beat, worn
30 Post contains images FL1TPA : To answer this question, there is no difference in the cabin whatsoever between the GECAS leased a/c and a/c ordered to "AirTran" specs. Identical se
31 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Actually, 310 would be their 11th 73G, but who's counting?  300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305,306, 307, 308 (My favorite), 309, 310[Edited 2008-03-07 20:
32 BR715-A1-30 : Slightly off topic, but why did they start the 73G at 300, but the 717 at 703? 701, and 702 were Boeing Test frames for a while (N949AT, and N940AT re
33 Post contains images MX757 : Very interesting. I was talking to a maintenance manager the other day and he told me that CO is looking into buying or leasing some used 737NGs. I wo
34 Gr8SlvrFlt : To answer this question, there is no difference in the cabin whatsoever between the GECAS leased a/c and a/c ordered to "AirTran" specs. Identical sea
35 B757capt : aaaahhhhhhh Haa See I said A/c 300 and 301 were getting bad.
36 UGA777 : I flew on ship 301 MDW-ATL a couple of weeks ago and I did not notice a difference in the cabin from the 18 other newer Airtran 737s I have flown on.
37 Post contains images JBo : Midwest I imagine a bit of the shrinkage is for some money-management to look towards more lucrative new routes. TPG probably wants to stop any finan
38 N1120A : It kind of makes sense. As I recall, FL ordered the initial 73Gs as essentially stripper models with very few useful options. It may well be that tho
39 B757capt : I don't know about that. In late 2006 Joe (old FL CEO) said that the 717 parts were becoming difficult to locate. In some cases FL was stock piling p
40 TVNWZ : What do you do if this is what fuel is going to be like going forward? What happens if this is as good as it gets? the 717 is very fuel efficient.
41 HeavyMx1 : I think we have already started to see it with some airlines adding charges such as for baggage. The next step will be higher fuel surcharges or just
42 Post contains images RobK : The deal hasn't been finalised yet, but AirTran will be (if the deal goes through) selling one of their brand new 737s at delivery next month R
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