Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AQ 737-200 Replacements--when?  
User currently offlineLahaina From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 261 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

When will AQ have to decided regarding their interisland 737-200 replacements? They tried 737-300s before and stopped due to cost issues. To clarify the issues, were the engines suffering from mechanical issues(reliability on short hops) or from maintenance issues (costing too much to maintaining these engines?

Spoke to an AQ pilot recently. AQ has recently hired to pilots classes. Where are they expanding to? Also, he hinted that they are looking at 737-500s. Anyone can comment more on these issues.

Mahanlo

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3266 times:



Quoting Lahaina (Thread starter):
Also, he hinted that they are looking at 737-500s.

Why would they do that? They'd have the same engine issues with those they had with the -300s . . .

I can't see AQ expanding anywhere at the moment - they don't have the the $$$.

And I was just in Hawaii last month, flew AQ twice . . . on very, very ratty worn out 732s. Airworthy? Sure. Attractive? Nope. Dirty? Yes! Torn seat covers, ripped overhead bin doors, seams in the cabin walls held together with what can only be described as Duct Tape painted white.

Refurbish the interiors there AQ . . . your 732s are a wreck.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2446 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

I believe I saw a few pictures around of the Embraer E-190 Prototype in Hawaii not to long ago, maybe when AQ gets the $$


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

This question comes up egularly -- here is the last one
Aloha's 737-200 Replacements? Future? (by 747Dreamlifter Dec 1 2007 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

What was the problem with the -300s. I heard that the issue was the engines couldnt take the short haul use. Is that true? How are HA 717s doing? Maybe AQ can operate the 717? There will be some coming online when QF dumps theirs.

User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

The 732s will remain for the near future.

The -500 rumor started when UA invested in AQ since it is rumored that UA wants to get rid of its -500s. Is it possible, yes. Is it likely? No, because of the previously mentioned issues encountered with the -300s and -400s.

The E190 was in HNL because Embraer was on its way to show it off in Asia and stopped to show AQ, it was not at AQ's request. AQ is always evaluating its options, but have not found anything which is as economical as the 737-200. There hasn't really been an aircraft since the DC-9 and 732 which is suited to the interisland market due to the extreme shortness of the flights. Even the 717 isn't "perfect," HA makes them work, but AQ still has lower costs and equivalent reliability with the 732s.

In the next 5 years when the supply of usable 732s starts to dry up, AQ will have to make a decision, and they will. Until then they are evaluating their options and when they find something which is economically viable, they will take it; or when they need to make a decision they will take the best suited aircraft available.

Again, they keep the 732s not because they can't afford something else, but because the 732 continues to be the best aircraft for the interisland market.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3203 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
I believe I saw a few pictures around of the Embraer E-190 Prototype in Hawaii not to long ago, maybe when AQ gets the $$

Same engine as the newer 737's though.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7816 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Given that the B737-200 did not leave production until 1988, I suspect that they will be arround for some time.

User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3125 times:



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
Same engine as the newer 737's though.

????

The E-190 uses GE 34-8E-10 engines. The 737-300+ use CFM 56's.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

The Q400/ATR seems like it might be the best option for the market. Is there a specific reason why AQ needs aircraft of narrow-body size? Cargo loads, perhaps?

One thing is for sure, its going to be hard for AQ to find a suitable replacement. I dont think there is one aircraft that would entirely fit the bill...maybe the new RJ (MD-90T based) that will come from China? Again though, would there be the same engine problems?

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7816 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3111 times:

If the B737-300, (and subsequent versions) are out, apparently the CFM56 was an issue, then the following could be possible, MD87, (JT8D) A318, (PW6000, A319 (V2500), B717 (BR715) and E195 (CF34).

Does anyone know what feature made the CFM56 a no go.

Also will noise/emission rules affect the JT8D?.

David


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3090 times:



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 9):
The Q400/ATR seems like it might be the best option for the market.

Been mentioned before . . . and the reply, from our Hawaiian A-Netters* is that our friends on the islands prefer a "jet" over a "prop". Dunno why, they just do.

* Hawaiian as A-Netters living there, not employees of good ole HA  Smile

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
A318, (PW6000, A319 (V2500),

Same principal as the CFMs IIRC from what I've read when this topic has surfaced before. Insufficient for the multiple start/stop inter-island market.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 9):
Cargo loads, perhaps?

AQ has 732Cs they use for cargo . . . some came from AS. I don't know how many at this point, but I saw at least three on the ground in HNL on 2/8 and 2/14. I can't imagine cargo capacity is an issue with that much interisland cargo lift already available.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3080 times:



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
Does anyone know what feature made the CFM56 a no go.

Not enough time for the engines to cool (either during cuise, or on the ground between flights) led to poor reliability, specifically with the blades I think.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
Also will noise/emission rules affect the JT8D?.

No, I believe that Senator Inouye got an exemption for flights operating entirely within Hawai'i.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3673 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2923 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 9):
The Q400/ATR seems like it might be the best option for the market. Is there a specific reason why AQ needs aircraft of narrow-body size? Cargo loads, perhaps?

That's one of the major reasons. Even though AQ has 4 freighters, they only run 1 during the day, and that is mostly for FX. Another is the amount of pax there are flying interisland. The interisland market has shrunk, but it is still around 8 million pax per year with high load factors for AQ and HA. Just look at the amount of flights there are between the islands, HNL-OGG alone has over 30 daily flights between AQ and HA. This is with aircraft seating 127 and 123 pax respectively. The use of the Q400 or ATR would mean that AQ would have to almost double the amount of flights, which would then overcrowd our skies and already crowded airports. Plus, they would lose a lot of valuable cargo space. Our visitors bring a lot of bags and any open space is filled with cargo.

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 12):
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
Also will noise/emission rules affect the JT8D?.

No, I believe that Senator Inouye got an exemption for flights operating entirely within Hawai'i.

Sen. Stevens and Sen. Inouye worked together to get the exemption for both Alaska and Hawaii.


User currently offlineVHHYI From Australia, joined Oct 2007, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2846 times:



Quoting ADent (Reply 8):
????

The E-190 uses GE 34-8E-10 engines. The 737-300+ use CFM 56's.

The CF34-10 series is a CFM56 in different clothing, according to some accounts.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 4):
There will be some coming online when QF dumps theirs.

Pardon my ignorance, where did you here this from?



This Porsche is like an Airbus;an Engineering marvel, but without passion - Jeremy Clarkson
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7545 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2722 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 5):
The 732s will remain for the near future.

The -500 rumor started when UA invested in AQ since it is rumored that UA wants to get rid of its -500s. Is it possible, yes. Is it likely? No, because of the previously mentioned issues encountered with the -300s and -400s.

The 735 would be a great replacement for the -200's,if it were not for the CFM56's aversion to short flight,IMHO.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2698 times:



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
Also will noise/emission rules affect the JT8D?.

Hawaii is exempt

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 15):
The 735 would be a great replacement for the -200's,if it were not for the CFM56's aversion to short flight,IMHO.

Can someone please elaborate on the CFM's problems on short haul?


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2638 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 16):
Can someone please elaborate on the CFM's problems on short haul?



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 12):
Not enough time for the engines to cool (either during cuise, or on the ground between flights) led to poor reliability, specifically with the blades I think.

also, see the link posted in Reply 3 to another recent thread.
Aloha's 737-200 Replacements? Future? (by 747Dreamlifter Dec 1 2007 in Civil Aviation)

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2555 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
on very, very ratty worn out 732s.

Oh man, that's no kidding. It's like a whole junkyard of spare parts makes up the interiors on those birds. Nice blue leather seats on my last two flights but everything around you, side walls, bins, you name it, holy cow it's a whole lotta ugly.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2526 times:



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 18):
Oh man, that's no kidding. It's like a whole junkyard of spare parts makes up the interiors on those birds. Nice blue leather seats on my last two flights but everything around you, side walls, bins, you name it, holy cow it's a whole lotta ugly.

I must be lucky. All of my interisland flights within the last year (about 10 flights) have all had very clean "new" looking interiors (for a 732).

I love those 732s!! Best part about AQ though is their employees (same as HA IMHO), and the fact that AQ is a little more liberal in allowing switching flights/taking earlier flights.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Oh I don't have any complaints about Aloha, I always fly them because I love the old 732s as well. It's been about five years since I was over there and my cabin experiences date back that far.

User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2503 times:



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 20):
Oh I don't have any complaints about Aloha, I always fly them because I love the old 732s as well. It's been about five years since I was over there and my cabin experiences date back that far.

Ahh, makes sense. AQ of 5 years was quite different. 5 years ago AQ wasn't as ontime, and the planes were more definately more tired. New leadership, new ownership and the bankruptcy process seem to have revitalized the company quite a bit. Recently as they've been getting "new" 732s I think they put in "new" interiors or atleast refurbished them, because (most?) of the aircraft now look quite nice inside.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who appreciates the nostalgia of the 732. These AQ 732 replacement threads are starting to appear as much as the NW DC-9 threads!!! LOL

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2490 times:



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 21):
AQ of 5 years was quite different.

Ummm, I was on two AQ 732s in Feb 2008 and found them threadbare.

A piece of aluminum tape on overhead bin trim, and the aforementioned "duct tape" on a wall joint, at row 1. Sorry, not impressed. No ship numbers to give you - but when I get back to town, I'll get the photos off the wife's camera if you'd like.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2372 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2465 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Ummm, I was on two AQ 732s in Feb 2008 and found them threadbare.

Like I said I haven't been on the entire fleet as of late, but the ones I have been have been in good (improved) condition.

AQ is quite different from 5 years ago in regard to its "attitude" and the level of its operation. There were times five years ago where they were below 75% ontime and before the current CEO came in in late 2004 the mood was quite somber. I am quite sure that atleast some of the 732 interiors are in need of some "work" but they all don't.

Plus, I smile every time I see that Funbird in the sky  Smile

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineUA76Heavy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2452 times:



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Ummm, I was on two AQ 732s in Feb 2008 and found them threadbare.

Interesting. I've flown AQ 5 times in the past 3 months and didn't find the interiors that way. They were clean and pretty well kept.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Aloha's 737-200 Replacements? Future? posted Sat Dec 1 2007 20:47:09 by 747Dreamlifter
EAL 737-200 Retirement/banning.... When? posted Sun May 13 2007 22:07:47 by BmiBaby737
When Delta 737-200 Retire? posted Mon Sep 8 2003 06:27:46 by Big777jet
When Will AC Retire Thier 737-200? posted Fri Feb 1 2002 11:14:18 by Hkniceguy
When Is The Last FL 737-200 Being Retired? posted Sat Aug 18 2001 10:54:45 by Srbmod
Nationwide And The 737-200-status? posted Sat Jan 5 2008 15:23:00 by NA
How Old Is This 737-200? posted Wed Nov 21 2007 12:01:42 by Braybuddy
737-200 Loses Engine On Take-off In CPT posted Wed Nov 7 2007 07:29:15 by ArniePie
Jet2 Leases 737-200 posted Tue Aug 7 2007 03:21:13 by Vasu
Boeing 737-200 With CFm Engines posted Sun Jul 1 2007 22:53:06 by Stewardess4u