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Cleveland BKL Expansion  
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 557 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

There was an article on Crains Cleveland Business' site today regarding the city's plan for Burke Lakefront Airport (BKL). The plan is to move the airfield to the north, including a longer runway (6800 feet [from 6200 feet currently]) to allow for more landside development. I can't post a link as you need a subscriber login to view it, but here are parts of it:


"The city of Cleveland has submitted a long-term master plan for Burke Lakefront Airport to the Federal Aviation Administration that includes moving runways and taxiways north to make room for new, mixed-use development at the city-owned airport.

FAA approval is needed for the airside improvements because the federal government pays for a big portion of the cost of runways, lighting, and takeoff and landing systems.

The city plans to lure private developers to undertake the landside improvements, which it hopes will include several restaurants, some addition to aviation services and perhaps even a business park.....

Though he would not go into specifics, Mr. Smith said the public will begin to see new development at Burke within a year. In December, Houston-based Encore FBO LLC purchased Million Air, which operated an aircraft maintenance and repair facility at Burke. Encore president Dan Bucaro told Crain’s Cleveland Business at the time that company would be building a new terminal and adding hangars at Burke within two years.

Moving the runway also would move the taxiways and clear land to the south to allow development to creep north.

The bulk of the development at Burke won’t take place until the city can build a new, 6,800-foot runway to the north of the existing runway. That process could take 10 years to complete, according to Mr. Smith, though he said the city will work to expand the facilities at Burke as soon as possible....

.....The city master plan anticipates modest growth in the use of Burke between 2006 and 2030. Takeoffs and landings are expected to grow to 115,600 in 2030 from 77,593 in 2006, a 1.7% average annual increase, according to forecasts prepared for the master plan by consultant Landrum & Brown Inc. of Cincinnati...."

This would be great to see!

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 673 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

To say that plan is ambitious would be an understatement. Cleveland has been wrestling with the problem of what to do with Burke Lakefront for decades. While building a new 6,800 ft. runway on the landfill to the north and east might be feasible, what return on this heavy investment would the city of Cleveland receive? Burke is an under-utilized general aviation facility now; the number of projected aircraft movements between 2006 and 2030 hardly justifies building what amounts to a new airport.

Cleveland periodically gets goofy and architectural artists draw up fanciful renderings of the Chicago Gold Coast superimposed on to the old Muny Light plant location. Visions of upscale clean industry and industrial parks combined with residential and commercial areas on America's north coast get politicians giddy with enthusiasm at the possibilities such an increased tax base would produce. As suddenly as these pie-in-the-sky ideas are floated, everything comes crashing down to Earth and reality sets in. http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindeale...othole_repairs_bad_weather_co.html

Note: The water main was 122 years-old.


User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5374 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2321 times:



Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 1):
While building a new 6,800 ft. runway on the landfill to the north and east might be feasible, what return on this heavy investment would the city of Cleveland receive?

The return on developing the land to the south would probably pay for the whole thing. Waterfront views are always valuable.

I wonder if landfill to the north will extend to the breakwall and eventually split the harbor - the passage isn't that wide now.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2174 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
In December, Houston-based Encore FBO LLC purchased Million Air, which operated an aircraft maintenance and repair facility at Burke.

Thank GOD! That Million Air was terrible! After learning my lesson a few times, I switched to Avitat!



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineOptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2149 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
The return on developing the land to the south would probably pay for the whole thing. Waterfront views are always valuable.

Yes but waterfront views that are only a hundred yards or so away from an airport runway certainly won't fetch quite as much. There also wouldn't be much lake visible from a first or second story building that has to look over the entire landfill.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9184 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Interesting to read...

What scheduled airline service, if any, is available at BKL?

Quoting Greenair727 (Thread starter):
.....The city master plan anticipates modest growth in the use of Burke between 2006 and 2030. Takeoffs and landings are expected to grow to 115,600 in 2030 from 77,593 in 2006, a 1.7% average annual increase, according to forecasts prepared for the master plan by consultant Landrum & Brown Inc. of Cincinnati...."

Quite an impressive number of takeoffs and landings forecast for some 20 years or so into the future...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2047 times:

I'll give Ricky Smith some credit. He could have just left BKL alone like all the others. He's done the study to research closing it and it's a no go. Rather than stop there like most folks, he's at least pushing for some development and progress in a dinosaur. Interesting concept for sure. If it works, he'll really pull one off.

I know the land, especially to the west, is valuable. In the past, the City has tried to work a few deals for museums to obtain even the parking lots at BKL for building. Nothing had worked out. If they want to keep the land prices high, they'll need to move quicker than the port authority move to E 55th St area. Now, a potential tenant does not have choice on the lake, but in the future they could choose between two sites.

The combination of both of these moves would be significant for the City. However, both 10+ years away. So, chances are still pretty slim I'll see it in my lifetime.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2026 times:

Steeler38: I could see airlines like Skybus, Alligaint and maybe Airtran. If CO wants to expand is hub in CLE they could force out Airtran and or Southwest. Just a thought

Chuck


User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2018 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 3):

Thank GOD! That Million Air was terrible! After learning my lesson a few times, I switched to Avitat!

absolutely, and I don't know why it was just the one at BKL, their facilities at other airports are excellent.



The Ohio Player
User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1902 times:



Quote:
To say that plan is ambitious would be an understatement. Cleveland has been wrestling with the problem of what to do with Burke Lakefront for decades. While building a new 6,800 ft. runway on the landfill to the north and east might be feasible, what return on this heavy investment would the city of Cleveland receive? Burke is an under-utilized general aviation facility now; the number of projected aircraft movements between 2006 and 2030 hardly justifies building what amounts to a new airport.

The plan is a good idea. you're right, the city has been pondering how best to use this asset, and this is a bold step to take major action with a solid investment in the airport. with the development on the airport's southern edge additional additional demand will be created and the slightly longer runway may attract new operations. This will eventually drive increased traffic at CLE as well.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1891 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 3):
Thank GOD! That Million Air was terrible! After learning my lesson a few times, I switched to Avitat!

Actually, you'll have to switch back. BAG - who ran Avitat is now out of the FBO business and the parent company of Landmark Aviation (name's eluding me) is now the only FBO on the field. Sounds like a good deal for all of those involved.


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1882 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 7):
Steeler38: I could see airlines like Skybus, Alligaint and maybe Airtran. If CO wants to expand is hub in CLE they could force out Airtran and or Southwest. Just a thought

Never happen. I believe CO has a deal with the city that would block the tye of air service that FL and SX offer. I think the agreement pretty much keeps the only type of service limited to the size of what was Destination One, which failed.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Destination One is really too bad. I thought service to DET and LGA and YYZ could have worked out of BKL.

Maybe someone will lease Dash 8s, Saabs, or Embraers and try again.. but I somehow doubt it. Didn't Destination One fly BKL-HHH with the E-120? Ouch!

-A



What now?
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

sadly................I'm expecting some of the routes we announced for CLE may not develop with the way oil is going  Sad
(TUL/OMA/BHM, etc. etc.)
we'll have to see what happens next week or so to find out where we will be moving forward in out attempt to cut costs.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9184 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1781 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 13):
sadly................I'm expecting some of the routes we announced for CLE may not develop with the way oil is going
(TUL/OMA/BHM, etc. etc.)
we'll have to see what happens next week or so to find out where we will be moving forward in out attempt to cut costs

Curse you $100+ barrel of oil!! From what I hear, these costs are supposed to go even higher by May. It's looking -- well not good...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1702 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 13):
sadly................I'm expecting some of the routes we announced for cle may not develop with the way oil is going Sad
(TUL/OMA/BHM, etc. etc.)
we'll have to see what happens next week or so to find out where we will be moving forward in out attempt to cut costs.

So what happens to the planes earmarked for the expansion or the state and local cash for for the same purpose if there were no expectations of rising oil costs (by so much so suddenly) and would this be the only cost cutting measure adopted by CO?


User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1693 times:



Quote:
Never happen. I believe CO has a deal with the city that would block the tye of air service that FL and SX offer...

Does anyone have a copy of this agreement? Is such an agreement even legal? I'd be surprised, as it allows a private company to control the air service options of the flying public...


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