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Paper Airlines....Status?  
User currently offlineSQ25J From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

As most everyone on Airliners.net knows there is always mention of proposed or "Paper Airlines", that have lofty plans, but never materialize. Apparently this trend will never end.....

Off the top of my head numerous come to mind. For the most part the strategy or leadership have been severely flawed. I thought I would identify a few and hope others can add to the list or comment. PLEASE do not take offense if you are or were affiliated with any of these....lets face it-it is hard to start an airline.

1) Family Airlines, (Part 2)...The reason I decided to start this thread. Back in 80's they had a 747 painted with livery, but owner unable to get DOT approval. Current plan is to fly 744's in/out of LAS on short and medium haul routes.
2) Blackstar.....another US 744 operator with proposed domestic service.
3) Air Gumbo.....New Orleans/ Louisianna niche carrier
4) Baltia.....perhaps the most famous.....NY-Russia...for last 20 years
5) Blue Fox....UK based 1999-2000?...perhaps first to state intention to be all biz class
6) Fly Who...UK based early 2000's....L10, 310's... UK-Florida
7) Backpackers...Australia....744's Europe/Asia/Australia...just for packbackerps....Low Yield!
8) Air Switzerland....early 2000's 340...LAS-ZRH?
9) Smintair....cuurently plans 744's Germany-Asia, all biz class, all smoking
10) Ocean Airways?, (french bases)...2004?...had advertised ORY-EWR low fares....
11) Interstate...Netherlands...Actually was/is an airline with turboprops...that intended to wet-lease widebodies from other carriers than turn around acquire their own to wet-lease to others
12) ???, South African based around 2003-04...had website and intended 743 service S.Africa-UK...never got approval
13) ???. US/Swiss.....2003...IAD-GVA-Kabul


Just a few....

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2337 times:



Quoting SQ25J (Thread starter):
9) Smintair....cuurently plans 744's Germany-Asia, all biz class, all smoking

Is this a joke? I cannot believe this is even legal nowadays on a carrier operating in the EU. Where would you find FAs for such flights? Smokers are certainly a shrinking market. Moreover, most smokers I know have a low very tolerance (ironically!) for second-hand smoke themselves. So putting them for 12 hours or so in other guys' smoke (different brands, maybe cigars or pipes) could be not so attractive even for them.



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineSQ25J From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

No Joke....

http://www.smintair.com

But...very unrealistic in my opinion

I forgot one other, not sure of name, (perhaps Empire???), early 2000's based in Syracuse, NY and had intended to start up with 100 RJ's


User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Let's not forget flyforbeans.com. They will never get off the ground.

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2212 times:



Quoting Sevenair (Reply 3):
Let's not forget flyforbeans.com. They will never get off the ground.

Think of the biofuel potential!



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePacificF27 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2199 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Community Air, based in Ukiah, CA. Had proposed linking small Northern /Central California towns with Sacramento and Oakland. 2000-2001, maybe. Pilateus single engine turbo props.


EVA is tops across the Pacific!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6385 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

How 'bout Metis Transpacific?  duck 


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

A couple years ago I ran across a proposal for an extended on-demand network air taxi operation for the entire state of Pennsylvania. Not like charters, something more expected or dependable, but certainly cheaper. An alternative to auto and bus, and given PA's weird road systems, that might make sense. I think they were to use single engine pistons, like Cessnas, and utilize a variety of GA airports. Wish I saved the webpage.

-Rampart


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2167 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 7):
A couple years ago I ran across a proposal for an extended on-demand network air taxi operation for the entire state of Pennsylvania. Not like charters, something more expected or dependable, but certainly cheaper. An alternative to auto and bus, and given PA's weird road systems, that might make sense. I think they were to use single engine pistons, like Cessnas, and utilize a variety of GA airports. Wish I saved the webpage.

Isn't that sort of the same proposal for the Very Light Jets? Too many a/c in the air and the FAA and DOT want to promote putting more up!! SHEESH!



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

ou know, I'm no hot shot graphic designer, but surely Baltia can do better than sticking a picture of a Chicken on the tail??? It has to be the most boring, ugly things I've seen on a plane.

User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2141 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 8):
Isn't that sort of the same proposal for the Very Light Jets? Too many a/c in the air and the FAA and DOT want to promote putting more up!! SHEESH!

Sort of, but not really. VLJs wouldn't be as effective, or at least as advantageous, on shorter intrastate distances, and not as fuel efficient.

Isn't the point of using air taxis at more numerous GA airports to get congestion out of the over-crowded commercial airports? Particularly if you can use GA airports on the fringes of metro areas? I didn't think more aircraft in the air between airports was a problem. Still a lot of unused area and vertical, particularly if you can avoid the well traveled corridors.
.

-Rampart


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

I am pretty sure that Magic Blue, a Dutch 'paper' cargo operator never actually got off the ground. Several BAe ATPs were painted up in their livery and one was actually painted with its proposed Dutch registration but was quickly painted back with its former British registration:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © A J Best



User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1784 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 10):
Isn't the point of using air taxis at more numerous GA airports to get congestion out of the over-crowded commercial airports? Particularly if you can use GA airports on the fringes of metro areas? I didn't think more aircraft in the air between airports was a problem. Still a lot of unused area and vertical, particularly if you can avoid the well traveled corridors.

I may be wrong, but with the antiquated atc system we have now, there's not as much vertical space as there could be. For sure, the commercial airports are crowded but a big part of the problem is the crowded skies and the ability of the atc system to handle them. A VLJ flying into a GA is just another a/c in the air as far as the atc system is concerned.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1751 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 7):
I think they were to use single engine pistons, like Cessnas, and utilize a variety of GA airports. Wish I saved the webpage.

Sounds like http://www.satsair.com/.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 12):
For sure, the commercial airports are crowded but a big part of the problem is the crowded skies and the ability of the atc system to handle them. A VLJ flying into a GA is just another a/c in the air as far as the atc system is concerned.

The big problem with the VLJs is the cruise speed. A lot of these aircraft have long range cruises in the 250-330 knot range, well below the airliners and most larger business jets. The easiest way to solve this problem is to put slower jets in the lower FLs--FL240-FL300 or so... Of course, this has a major impact on fuel economy and damages the economic case for these aircraft. A nice piston is much more comfortable down low, and not much slower on a short route. Of course, you have reliability and useful load issues that are more significant with pistons than jets.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
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