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Allegiant Delays Bakersfield To LAS Announcement  
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Allegiant was planning to announce BFL-LAS Wednesday to go along with today's SBA-LAS announcement. But fuel prices caused them to decide to delay Bakersfield.

My guess is that this is probably a true delay and not a complete change of mind. I expect BFL will be added in a few months.

http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/387065.html
http://www.kget.com/news/local/story...d63cb1-b5ab-49aa-9605-51a9eb6a59cf


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

I notice that US has flights to Las Vegas from both Bakersfield and Santa Barbara leaving at 9:52 pm. Santa Barbara has a large retirement community and are less likely to drive to Las Vegas than folks from Bakersfield.

User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

I would not put much trust into Alligaint Airlines. That stated they would keep all their flights in Lansing Michigan and in Toledo OH. But, the pulled both their LAS flights. Which I can't understand that from LAN being the loads where 89 to 95% and in TOL their loads where 85%. Now they are doing only Florida flights and who knows how long they will keep these going. I just don't trust them (Alligain Airlines). And I will not book any of my clients on them because we can take a chance they will pull out on the city they are serviceing.

chuck


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3189 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):
I would not put much trust into Alligaint Airlines. That stated they would keep all their flights in Lansing Michigan and in Toledo OH. But, the pulled both their LAS flights. Which I can't understand that from LAN being the loads where 89 to 95% and in TOL their loads where 85%. Now they are doing only Florida flights and who knows how long they will keep these going. I just don't trust them (Alligain Airlines). And I will not book any of my clients on them because we can take a chance they will pull out on the city they are serviceing.

Same exact thing here at GSP. I know I'll never fly them now. They're too wishy-washy-can't trust 'em. A little consistency would be nice.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3168 times:



Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 3):
A little consistency would be nice.

I am sure that is what Allegiant is asking from the oil companies.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3166 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):
I would not put much trust into Alligaint Airlines.

The correct spelling would be nice. It is Allegiant. And both you and GSPSPOT need to stop being so bitter. Allegiant's management is here to make money. With $100+ oil it is hard to fly long haul flights. Obviously we are doing something right if we are one of a very few airlines making money.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):
Which I can't understand that from LAN being the loads where 89 to 95% and in TOL their loads where 85%.

This has been said before, and I'm sure it will be said again... high load factor doesn't always equal a profit.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3157 times:



Quoting G4resagent (Reply 5):
This has been said before, and I'm sure it will be said again... high load factor doesn't always equal a profit.

Then, the folks who run this airline need to be in another business! Other airlines, while not paragons of consistency, do a MUCH better job of actually, oh I don't know, DEVELOPING a market - committing to it. Actually fighting for it. I'll say it again, G4 needs to be reasonably SURE before going in. Oil prices can't be exclusively blamed here - we all know they'll only go upwards, and again, other airlines seem to be able to keep their route structures more stable.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

They focus on profits not loads.

If costs rise too high to make money then a route makes no sense. For example 3 years ago Allegiant pulled Waco to LAS flights before they launched because at the last minute the fuel handling fee at Waco increased by 500%.

Another problem I've seen for some routes is low ancilliary revenue. Allegiant's profit is not from fares but from vacation packages, onboard purchases, etc. If too many passengers on a route only buy a ticket then book lodging through a different source (i.e. timeshares) the company is not profiting. The corporate name is Allegiant Travel for a reason.

Besides I've seen a lot of airlines pull routes after a year or less. Its part of the business.

And as Mike Boyd says this week, a lot of carriers are probably taking a second look at summer schedules. $108/barrel oil is going to hit a lot of routes and frequencies, forcing last minute reductions in routes that looked profitable a short time ago.

Are you going to be saying the same things about legacies if they start cutting leisure routes before this summer?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

You can't make any $$ if you don't fly the route in the 1st place. And, NOW, with $108/barrel oil, things are in uncharted territory. Last year, at least, when GSP-LAS was pulled after 2 short months (not even enough time for us to plan, book & fly to LAS), things weren't nearly as dire.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3132 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):
I would not put much trust into Alligaint Airlines. That stated they would keep all their flights in Lansing Michigan and in Toledo OH. But, the pulled both their LAS flights. Which I can't understand that from LAN being the loads where 89 to 95% and in TOL their loads where 85%. Now they are doing only Florida flights and who knows how long they will keep these going. I just don't trust them (Alligain Airlines). And I will not book any of my clients on them because we can take a chance they will pull out on the city they are serviceing.

Keep sending them to DTW. Personally, you're part of the problem. Keep booking your customers with them and they would be more willing to commit. I don't fault them for pulling the LAS flights at all. Those guzzled a lot of gas and it just wasn't profitable. I can tell you they are committed to TOL and won't be pulling out any time soon.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3111 times:

Driving from Santa Barbara to Las Vegas is not as easy as one might think - taking the 101 through Ventura county (and its suburban sprawl) and then through the downtown L.A. area just to hook up with I-15 in San Bernadino county...add in the usual gridlock, and you've got a long, painful drive.

Bakersfield, however, is a much different matter - highway 58 east over the Tehachapi mountains can be tough, but very do-able. Once in Mojave, 58 is very easy until the Kern/San Bernadino county line, where for 30 something miles it is still the Tom Joad two-lane highway. However, just west of Barstow, a new 4-lane bypass hooks up highway 58 with I-15 to Las Vegas. All in all, it's an easier drive than L.A. has.

Which is why Allegiant's announcement of Bakersfield puzzles me - I just don't see the market as being there for vacationing Bakersfieldians. LAS and BFL are too close for a jet flight of that short a segment solely for tourists, especially when its not a daily flight. At least the US flight has connecting possibilities!!

I am in favor of any airline's expansion, if it is done with care - but I don't think BFL would ultimately prove to be profitable. Not with its proximity or fuel prices skyrocketing.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3108 times:



Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):
You can't make any $$ if you don't fly the route in the 1st place. And, NOW, with $108/barrel oil, things are in uncharted territory. Last year, at least, when GSP-LAS was pulled after 2 short months (not even enough time for us to plan, book & fly to LAS), things weren't nearly as dire.

But you also don't lose money if you don't fly a nonprofitable route.  Wink Allegiant stays profitable by avoiding thoughts like market share, or having to stick to money losing routes, or not admitting bad decisions, etc.

Allegiant has developed a very different business model than other airlines, again its Allegiant Travel not just an airline.

Allegiant CEO Maurice Gallagher is also very sharp and has made millions (he donated $10 million to the UCDavis business school a few months ago). Maury has made much of his money in airlines including cofounding ValuJet/AirTran, WestAir, ACA, etc. He is a very strong senior manager and numbers person.

And only 2 months in GSP? But most new routes on Allegiant are strong from the start with prebookings and grow fairly fast. They don't need time for locals to plan and book a trip and for Allegiant to see they will make money. For some reason that market going out was not showing good trends.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3107 times:
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Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):
Then, the folks who run this airline need to be in another business!

Actually, the folks who run this airline are doing a pretty good job keeping Allegiant(note spelling DTWagent) profitable so I think they are in the right business. I don't know why GSPSPOT and DTWAGENT are so bitter towards G4. EVERY airline has pulled out of markets including those that have pulled out of YOUR markets that were not meeting revenue expectations. Get over it.



natch!!
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3070 times:



Quoting ATCRick (Reply 12):
EVERY airline has pulled out of markets including those that have pulled out of YOUR markets that were not meeting revenue expectations.

Not at the level of these bozo's. They've got "here today, gone tomorrow" down to a freakin' science!!



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3066 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):

See below.

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 5):
This has been said before, and I'm sure it will be said again... high load factor doesn't always equal a profit.

spot on.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):
Then, the folks who run this airline need to be in another business! Other airlines, while not paragons of consistency, do a MUCH better job of actually, oh I don't know, DEVELOPING a market - committing to it. Actually fighting for it. I'll say it again, G4 needs to be reasonably SURE before going in. Oil prices can't be exclusively blamed here - we all know they'll only go upwards, and again, other airlines seem to be able to keep their route structures more stable.

So if G4 flies a route for 6 months with an 89% LF but doesnt make squat, did they develop the route? Or would you like them to stay for another 6-12 months, loose even more money then cut your route, just so you could fly them?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3045 times:



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 14):
So if G4 flies a route for 6 months with an 89% LF but doesnt make squat, did they develop the route? Or would you like them to stay for another 6-12 months, loose even more money then cut your route, just so you could fly them?

I'm just saying there MUST be something wrong with the business model in that case.. Not rocket science. Don't go in at all, if you can't make $$ with a freakin' 89% LF!!



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3039 times:
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Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 15):
I'm just saying there MUST be something wrong with the business model in that case..

Ok, then you tell us. What is wrong with the business model? You know, the one that keeps G4 in the black? For crying out loud get over it. Fly somebody else. Just let it rest. You would think G4 did something personal to you.



natch!!
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3015 times:



Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 13):
Not at the level of these bozo's. They've got "here today, gone tomorrow" down to a freakin' science!!

Those "bozos" are running one of a very small handful of profitable airlines. So before you start calling the upper management out, why don't you rethink your thought that our business plan is flawed. Obviously it isn't if our load factor for February beat everyone else domestically. So who's business plan is flawed... ours or someone who stays in a market and loses money just so they can "develop the market."


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3006 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
SBA-LAS announcement.

I thought they were gung ho about SMX being the "superior" destination.  sarcastic 

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 1):
Santa Barbara has a large retirement community and are less likely to drive to Las Vegas

More importantly, Santa Barbara has much, much more money.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4390 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2992 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):
Last year, at least, when GSP-LAS was pulled after 2 short months (not even enough time for us to plan, book & fly to LAS), things weren't nearly as dire.



Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 15):
Don't go in at all, if you can't make $$ with a freakin' 89% LF!!

I can see LAN-LAS, but why they even bothered with GSP-LAS I don't know. That's really too far for an MD-83 full, and oil wasn't exactly low when they announced it. LAN-LAS however was around when oil was $50-60, and then was cut after fuel went up.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

If any airline can't make a profit with 89% (as an example) LF, then this country had BETTER be investing in high-speed electric railways.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2913 times:
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Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 20):
If any airline can't make a profit with 89% (as an example) LF, then this country had BETTER be investing in high-speed electric railways

Really? Well if you look at the stats, back a few years ago when the oil was cheaper, alot of the legacy carriers would have still lost millions had their LF been 100%. SOOOOOOO, I guess you won't bother us aviation people anymore. Get your plans in order, buy your Amtrak ticket, but hurry, before they start losing money there and end service.



natch!!
User currently offlineSurfrider1978 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Im really suprised they haven't jumped into BUR yet.

User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2884 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 20):
If any airline can't make a profit with 89% (as an example) LF, then this country had BETTER be investing in high-speed electric railways.

Okay, using your model, if Airline X flew GSP - LAS and had a 89% load factor they would be making money, right? Unless they have a high average fare, then no, they wouldn't make money. Why does everyone think high load factor equals profit? It isn't about the high load factor - it is about the average fare. Sure, you can have an 85% load factor... but if your average fare is low, it isn't profitable.

Would you rather fly a plane 1000+ miles and have an 85% load factor with a $49 average fare or would you rather fly the same plane 450 miles and have an 85% load factor with a $49 average fare? The shorter flight will make more money. Plain and simple.

If you want Allegiant to fly GSP - LAS, then by all means write a letter to Allegiant. Tell them why they should fly it, and give them good hard facts. The airline isn't run by "bozos" but by a very experienced management team. But being bitter in your letter, or calling them bozos will get your letter thrown in the trash. Life is way too short.

[Edited 2008-03-12 15:07:41]

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2859 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
At least the US flight has connecting possibilities!!

The US flight only operates 3 days a week. Thurs, Fri and Sun.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
I thought they were gung ho about SMX being the "superior" destination.

LOL, apparently it still is at this time.

SMX has service to 2 destinations (LAS and AZA), SBA is only getting 1. And SMX-LAS is currently 4X per week increasing to 5X in June. SBA-LAS will only be 3X per week.  Silly

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
More importantly, Santa Barbara has much, much more money.

Unless they are already losing it at Chumash.  Wink

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 20):
If any airline can't make a profit with 89% (as an example) LF, then this country had BETTER be investing in high-speed electric railways.

There are routes out there on other airlines that don't make a profit with loads that high. But they are offered because someone decided it was important for market share or other reasons.

Allegiant makes routes stand on their own. No subsidizing money-losing routes from other routes.

As far as I know, Allegiant did not receive a revenue guarantee from GSP for the route. Other airlines would not have considered it without one. And even then there are airlines who take the money and leave when it runs out.

So Allegiant took a chance with their own money and it didn't work out. They weren't afraid to admit they were wrong. I would think you would be glad they at least took the risk, rather than its too chancy we aren't going to try.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
25 Flyinryan99 : Problem is, G4 had no real pricing power in the GSP-LAS market. I'm sure they would've liked to have taken a 5% load factor hit to raise prices by $1
26 CIDFlyer : these statements are just absolutely laughable. Why aren't you knocking on AirTran then too, they always seem to start a route and then end it too. J
27 Iowaman : I'm not even going to touch that statement.
28 N1120A : The SMX crowd has plenty of opportunity to do that as well.
29 ATCRick : I wish I had said that. Nice diplomacy sir. I can learn something from you. Rick
30 Post contains images CIDflyer : Hey thanks Rick!
31 GSPSPOT : Well, good luck to the poor sods who believe the flowery PR stuff they read, only to find out they won't be able to avail themselves of it. I'm outa t
32 G4resagent : A bit difficult when you buried yourself in it. We aren't believing "flowery PR stuff we read." We are going off of simple facts. Maybe you should wo
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