Kevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1067 posts, RR: 1 Posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2342 times:
Hey all..
Just a littel sad piece of news.. This summer, Air Greenland won't return to Baltimore. According to takeoff.nu, the route lost DKK 15 million / 3 Mio. USD in 2007, and bookings have slumped quite a bit after the dollar has depreciated so much, making it more expensive to visit Greenland.
I think it's pretty sad, quite cool with a route to the US (even if not with their beautiful 330!), and it would have been awesome if you could have gone CPH-BWI via Greenland, making a little Icelandair-copy there... although yields would probably be poor, along with frequency of course..
Oh well, on the other hand nice to see an airline taking the consequence of a non-performing route, rather than keeping it artificially alive for years.
Regards,
Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" - CPH-TXL SK319
Tsnamm From United States, joined May 2005, 389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2239 times:
I can't imagine there being enough traffic thru BWI to fill an A330 to Greenland...frankly I don't imagine enough traffic from anywhere in the US to fill an A330 to Greenland...perhaps they could attempt from NYC either JFK or EWR...
Kevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1067 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
Quoting Sevenair (Reply 1): I didn't think this route would last long at all. Shame, but I can't say it is surprising.
Well, to be fair it was never intended to be anything but a summer service.. actually, it probably beared quite some resemblance to a charter flight, since a lot of the seats were block-sold to tour operators in the US..
Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 2): I can't imagine there being enough traffic thru BWI to fill an A330 to Greenland...frankly I don't imagine enough traffic from anywhere in the US to fill an A330 to Greenland...perhaps they could attempt from NYC either JFK or EWR...
True, but they never flew the route with a 330, only a 752, so.. But I'm surprised as well they didn't choose NYC, maybe they couldn't get slots (?) or maybe they got a good deal with BWI..
Regards,
Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" - CPH-TXL SK319
Tsnamm From United States, joined May 2005, 389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2166 times:
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Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 3): but they never flew the route with a 330, only a 752
Really?...when they announced the route they said they were going to operate an A-330...frankly a 757 seems like a bit too much of an airplane...but maybe a 757 to JFK Ala Icelandair might be feasible...
MasseyBrown From United States, joined Dec 2002, 4031 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2014 times:
Air Greenland's chance was slim; but for some reason BWI just can't hold onto foreign airlines and the domestic ones don't offer much international service beyond Canada and the Caribbean. It's not clear to me why this is. The population and disposable income are there. Must be a lack of business hqs?
EXAAUADL From United States, joined Jun 2006, 4083 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6): BWI just can't hold onto foreign airlines and the domestic ones don't offer much international service beyond Canada and the Caribbean. It's not clear to me why this is. The population and disposable income are there. Must be a lack of business hqs?
Its in the shadow of IAD and PHL...so its catchment for internaional travel is very small
MasseyBrown From United States, joined Dec 2002, 4031 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1853 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7): Its in the shadow of IAD and PHL...so its catchment for internaional travel is very small
There are probably more than 3 million who find BWI more convenient than PHL or IAD. Those 3 million must either hate flying or love driving in traffic jams to distant airports - either way, they don't support international flying out of BWI.
It may just be the demographics, though; despite recent growth, Baltimore still is a beer and Orioles kind of place. (I don't mean to call that bad, either.)
Tipekusair From United States, joined Feb 2007, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Air Greenland operated only two flights with their own aircraft. First flight with B757 and second with A330.
Rest of the time they were using ATA's 757.
PA110 From United States, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1910 posts, RR: 42 Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1709 times:
I was lucky enough to be on that first invitational trip to Greenland from BWI with press and travel professionals. I was privileged to see a part of the world I might not otherwise have seen and was anxious to share it with others. However, Greenland is an expensive destination and to appreciate the amazing variety the destination has to offer, it requires flying from city to city, as there are no inter-city roads at all. The decline in the US dollar put it pretty much out of reach of most that would consider taking the trip. In comparison with Iceland, Air Greenland's fares were far more expensive. I think Greenland simply didn't have the time to develop the tourism presence in the United States needed to compete with Iceland who in all honestly competes very aggressively for nordic-oriented vacationers.
I think Air Greenland might have made a couple of mistakes as well. First, they at least initially refused to consider exploiting cargo opportunities that might have made the flights more cost effective. Second, the decision to use BWI as their gateway really limited the potential reach for prospective passengers. The timing of the flight precluded making any same day connections from the West Coast, which has the largest "adventure travel" market in the USA. Using a gateway that could provide same-day transcon connections could have broadened GL's reach.
I hope that market conditions turn around and that we can see the return of GL to the USA. For all those who have never been, Greenland is remarkably beautiful and well worth the visit. The tourism infrastructure within Greenland is very well developed (if a bit expensive). There are unique opportunities to see amazing glaciers, the permanent ice cap (while it's still around), amazing ice bergs, and traditional villages.
DCA-ROCguy From United States, joined Apr 2000, 3835 posts, RR: 53 Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1650 times:
Thank you PA110 for that detailed information. It seemed to me from the beginning that BWI-Greenland would be a very marginal route at best. When BWI had Icelandair, IIRC it relied partially on feed to Europe through KEF.
There are probably more than 3 million who find BWI more convenient than PHL or IAD. Those 3 million must either hate flying or love driving in traffic jams to distant airports - either way, they don't support international flying out of BWI.
There's more high-end corporate business located near Dulles in Virginia, plus it seems to be the preferred international airport for downtown DC. Also, UA's hub can feed their flights and help other Star Alliance carriers. Part of it, too, is that Dulles has "The Reputation' as the international airport. BWI is more convenient for much of Maryland, but that doesn't seem to matter.
Boslax From United States, joined Aug 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1574 times:
BWI's future International opportunities may depend indirectly on Southwest Airlines. As Southwest explores potential code-sharing relationships with foreign flag carriers this may lead to transatlantic expansion. As was stated above, local BWI international passengers have many alternatives at PHL and IAD. If Southwest was to feed a partners BWI transatlantic flight from it's BWI spokes, the service may have a reasonable chance of success since there would less reliance on local traffic. Then again, Southwest could strike a similar deal with a carrier operating from PHL. So who knows, but one thing is for sure, the continued elimination of transatlantic service from BWI makes it that much more difficult to recruit other airlines.
Tsnamm From United States, joined May 2005, 389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1428 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 5): 757 and you thought the 757 was a bit to much plane? What would the A330 have been?
What I said in my 1st post if you bothered to read it...too much airplane for a marginally populated area from a less than major international gateway. Thats what I thought.
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1395 times:
I wish Air Greenland would look to providing routes to aanother European destination other than Copenhagen. I would think a FRA or LON route would work especially if some seats were contracted to tour ops.
Profpete From United States, joined Jul 2007, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1316 times:
I think BWI to FRA or MUC would work, for LHR there is already the (apparently heavily subsidized) BA flight.
Howard (very close to BWI) and Montgomery Counties, MD, are ranked 4th and 6th wealthiest suburbs in the USA,
I don't understand the lack of international traffic at BWI.
Vega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1190 times:
Quoting Profpete (Reply 19): I don't understand the lack of international traffic at BWI.
Seems as though one of the reasons BWI has not grown internationally (in addition to it's location) is because few carriers, which offer international services are willing to provide the necessary domestic feed into BWI and compete with WN. It's one of the negatives of being a major pseudo WN Hub with extensive LCC domestic services. Most successful international routes usually need substantial connecting traffic for success in all but the very largest markets (e.g., NYC and LAX).
Kevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1067 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 765 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 9): What will they do with the extra a/c available. Opening a new route or increase frequency??
Don't think so.. rather, they're probably going to sell the capacity to MyTravel Airways, which already stands for i think 50 % or something of GL's flown RPK's - particularly in wintertime, when Greenland traffic is very slow, and GL's a/c can be used for trips to Thailand, India etc.
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18): I wish Air Greenland would look to providing routes to aanother European destination other than Copenhagen. I would think a FRA or LON route would work especially if some seats were contracted to tour ops.
Maybe some London airport, or FRA.. but only in summer, so.. also, they do only have two a/c for this, and they need at least one for their daily milk-run to Greenland, full of Greenlandic politicians and Danish CEO's for Greenlandic companies - J traffic isn't small on the route, and they have J seats on both their 330 and their 757.
Quoting Profpete (Reply 19): I think BWI to FRA or MUC would work, for LHR there is already the (apparently heavily subsidized) BA flight.
BA flight fron LHR to Greenland or??
Regards,
Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" - CPH-TXL SK319
777fan From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1849 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 759 times:
Quoting Vega (Reply 20): Seems as though one of the reasons BWI has not grown internationally (in addition to it's location) is because few carriers, which offer international services are willing to provide the necessary domestic feed into BWI and compete with WN.
This is exactly the case. Most of the legacies at BWI (UA, US, CO, AA) have hubs at other airports in the area (UA = IAD, US = PHL, CO = EWR, AA = BOS) so in that regard, it doesn't even make sense for them to ramp up domestic feeds to international flights at BWI since they already feed their domestic traffic to the aforementioned hubs.
Quoting Boslax (Reply 14): BWI's future International opportunities may depend indirectly on Southwest Airlines. As Southwest explores potential code-sharing relationships with foreign flag carriers this may lead to transatlantic expansion.
While I completely agree with your statement, it's worth pointing out that if this is the case, WN is going to need to address the fact that the WN concourse is on the opposite end of the airport as the international terminal. Not a big deal since BWI isn't that big but it could present a headache for those that would connect on WN via BWI.
Sad to see Air Greenland go but it just wasn't the right time. The firm that was handling their PR should've been canned from the start - their radio commercials were really, really lame!
777fan
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke
WorldDC10 From United States, joined Feb 2008, 5 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 603 times:
As a BWI spotter, this is news I entirely expected. We've struggled for so long for sustainable international routes and for a variety of reasons, we lose them, so I guess I'm just happy they came in the first place (same with EI, LY BW, MX, Ghana, etc...). BWI has a history of airlines offering a mixed bag of creative and very cool international routes.
I did observe the 332 on its promotional flight to BWI and it was a great bird to see.
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