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Saudi 777 Hole In Wing?  
User currently offlineStrudders From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 109 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25474 times:

Can anybody shed any light on the Vid posted on Live leak.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=70d_1205377058

Not seen anything about this wondered how old it is.

Best Regards

Struds

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlidepath73 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 1020 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25434 times:

Looks like the wing got shot from ground.
My goodness. Glad it didnt hit the wing fuel tank.

Regards,
Patrick



Aviation! That rocks...
User currently offlineNCB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25401 times:

Or maybe a lightning strike?

User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25356 times:

Looks like either the undercarriage actuator or sidestay has punched through the wing. But I have no experience on 777 so I cannot say if that is the case.

At first I thought it was fuel leaking out of the wing. But then when the camera zoomed in and I saw what had punched through the wing, I could also see the hydraulic line that skydrol/hyjet was leaking out of. Plus some of it is running down the wing aft of the breach.

Panman

[Edited 2008-03-13 02:40:49]

[Edited 2008-03-13 02:41:03]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 25329 times:

Yeah, kind of looks like one part of the mechanism seized up while the movable surfaces were being deployed for landing, and the rest of the section kept moving and ripped a hole.

It's always amazing to me how much damage wings can take and still perform as they should.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 25053 times:



Quoting NCB (Reply 2):
Or maybe a lightning strike?

Can lightning do such damage?



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24931 times:

The damage to the wing was to a trailing edge panel aft of the rear spar. These panels are light weight composite units that do not provide any strength to the wing. They are aerodynamic fairings.
The main problem is what failed to cause a mechanism to puncture the panel and not whether the structural integrtiy of the wing was affected.
I would guess that there was a failure in the flap operating mechanism. Whether the flaps reached the desired position before the failure would determine what the crew would have to do to adapt to the situation.
The flap system has an asymmetry sensing system which will lock the flaps when one flap begins to extend further on one wing than the flap on the other. This will prevent one wing from developing more lift than the other resulting in the airplane trying to roll.
Tthe crew would know the flaps were locked out and at what position they were locked. They would then have to adjust their approach and landing speeds and if there was a problem with the runway length they would either request a different runway or a different airport so that the landing would be made safely. This, obviously, was what the crew on the airplane in question did.


User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24931 times:



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 5):
Can lightning do such damage?

In one word, no.

The worst situation is a small bump on the frame. Not that much of a big deal, unless it hits the radome. Usually, when it hits the radome, the damage is slightly more important but still not that bad. Only a slight bump, usually.



Cheers
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24919 times:

It's hard to know when this happened; the Saudis are notoriously secretive and don't tend to publicize incidents.Frankly, whoever took this video is very lucky that his camcorder wasn't seized!

User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24846 times:

Now this is comforting to see 2 weeks before one is scheduled to fly the same airline, same plane type and land on the same airport.  Big grin

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24820 times:



Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 9):
land on the same airport.

Which airport was it?


User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 24700 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):

i believe RUH



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 866 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24441 times:

whoa

Anyone notice the PA address? Please keep your seatbelts fastened and tray tables up. It was as if nothing had happened.


User currently offline777DAD From Germany, joined Aug 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22831 times:

I'd also like to know how that could have happened.
That's scary as hell.
Thank God the situation didn't get any worse.

[Edited 2008-03-13 11:02:30]


"I love to fly,I just don't do it enough"
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22426 times:

Happened on the 10th of March 2008, Team from Boeing and the NTSB already on the way. Flight was JED-RUH and the rupture happened at around 900m during flap extension to Flaps 30.

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22389 times:

Thats the gear link...looks like hard landing victim...

User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21730 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
Thats the gear link...looks like hard landing victim...

Don't know... it's already like that prior to landing....



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21292 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
Thats the gear link...looks like hard landing victim...

Wrong, that damage was created by the flap system as the captain could not retract flaps after landing. This was in no way caused by a previous hard landing, as the plane could not have set flaps for this flight on TO and then extended them again for landing.

Have you even watched the video?

Just to clear thing here, the damage was created on final flap extension to flaps 30. This was 900 meters above ground.

Read my post above.

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19356 times:



Quoting AF1624 (Reply 7):
In one word, no

In two words.... you're wrong.

That much damage.. doubtful... serious damage... yes it can. I have seen lightening strikes that were so bad the plane was grounded for a week as it was under repairs. I've seen panels blown totally off, holes burned through the skin, windows melted. I've seen a few strikes so bad the plane depressurized and people were in the hospital.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2687 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19091 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 17):
Just to clear thing here, the damage was created on final flap extension to flaps 30. This was 900 meters above ground.

G'day Leo  ,

Do you have any definite information that the breakage was associated with the flap mechanism? The damage may well of occurred at the same time as that of the final flap extension, but they may not have been the cause. Anyway, due to the lack of any concrete information, I am going to enter into the time honored A'net tradition of wild speculation  !

I took these snapshots of the video along with a scale diagram of the 777 from the Boeing website. The red lines represent the centre-line of the flap mechanism, whilst the green line represent what I presume would be the approximate line of any landing gear mechanism outboard of the trunnion. Can any engineers confirm the arrangement of the 777 retraction mechanism, and if there is anything outboard of the trunnion?



http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l118/Jet-Mech/777-2.jpg

To me, the protruding part seems very much to align with what I speculate may be landing gear mechanism outboard of the trunnion. Anyway, it is a big lump of metal no matter what it actually is  Wow!



Regards, JetMech

[Edited 2008-03-13 14:36:43]


JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1874 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19069 times:

Any idea which B777 this was?

How long would it take to fix it?


User currently offlineGlidepath73 From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 1020 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18606 times:

If this is really a design related issue, the questions is:
Shouldn't that be somehow averted to happen before it happens? (By special checks of maintenance?)

I mean: Can't this get worse and cause maybe more trouble? How does Boeing deal with that? Did that happen before?
Could this be a problem for all Boeing 777's in service?

Regards,
Patrick



Aviation! That rocks...
User currently offlineMEA330 From Lebanon, joined Aug 2002, 285 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18152 times:

Reported to be B-777-200ER reg:HZ-AKB

User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 17753 times:

I will probably be decapitated for saying this, but is it just me, or is there a certain increase in 777 incidents lately? First the LHR incident, then a number of diversions, now this. A broken flap is a scary thing, and enough planes have crashed due to problems with flaps or slats. As a passenger on this flight, I would definitely have been scared.


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 17628 times:



Quoting JetMech (Reply 19):
G'day Leo ,

Do you have any definite information that the breakage was associated with the flap mechanism? The damage may well of occurred at the same time as that of the final flap extension, but they may not have been the cause. Anyway, due to the lack of any concrete information, I am going to enter into the time honored A'net tradition of wild speculation !

I took these snapshots of the video along with a scale diagram of the 777 from the Boeing website. The red lines represent the centre-line of the flap mechanism, whilst the green line represent what I presume would be the approximate line of any landing gear mechanism outboard of the trunnion. Can any engineers confirm the arrangement of the 777 retraction mechanism, and if there is anything outboard of the trunnion?


Hey Jetmech, all i can tell you is that the actual rupture of the wing happened at 900meters, gear was already down and flaps were being set to 30.

But it is not clear yet if it was the flap mechanism that caused the damage!

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
25 Post contains links NCB : Take a look at this picture: http://images.google.be/imgres?imgur...p%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN and read this: If I remember well, the one tha
26 Tdscanuck : As note above, this damage is just to the aero surface, not the wing structure. The strength of the wing isn't compromised at all. The only thing out
27 Singapore_Air : Well that would have scared me. Yes, it wouldn't have been scary afterwards when you can talk of "wing integrity" but it would have raised the blood p
28 Post contains links NCB : Just to prove lightning can damage aircraft: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Wurth...ng/Dassault-Falcon-50EX/0761893/M/
29 CHRISBA777ER : Wow - scary stuff. Is this a hydraulic ram from the MLG leg coming through the wing? A flap actuator coming away maybe?
30 Post contains links and images JetMech : No worries. If the gear was already down, that blows my theory out of the water ! Hey Tom . I initially thought that the 777 retraction actuator may
31 Jbernie : Actually that probably isn't a bad thing, for one you don't need the whole plane running back to have a look and cause issues with delaying people fr
32 Post contains images DL763 : Maybe landing gear problems? Something in the fuselage might have done that. I wonder how it happened. DL763
33 Post contains images Ikramerica : It is not just you, others have made the same reactionary comments. Just this week there have been a lot of diversion threads, not one was 777 relate
34 UH60FtRucker : Ok, so we know it wasn't shot from the ground. But hypothetically what would happen if this aircraft received a punctured fuel cell, due to a bullet?
35 Tdscanuck : That's what I get for not doing my homework...I was assuming it was 767-style as well. Fair enough. I incorrectly turned "damage" into "lost strength
36 KC135TopBoom : You need to put all these incidents into perspective. There are about 700 B-777s now flying hundreds of thousands of hours per year. The B-777 has no
37 Tdscanuck : Yep. The big fight is over retrofitting existing aircraft. Both manufacturers have "drunk the Kool-Aid" and got on board with inerting for new models
38 Post contains images Rwy04LGA : I was already thinking that and this just added to it. I'm flying JFK-BOM on a new LR soon, I hope it's not jinxed.
39 HAWK21M : Fantastic explanation steve. Your posts are always good. regds MEL
40 Post contains links HawkerCamm : Aircraft get hit by lightening very often. On average it happens about 1 in 1000 flights ( Not the stats most pax want to hear!). 99% of the time it h
41 Post contains links and images JetMech : In light of the Flight International article, I'm gonna stick by my original claims made in earlier posts. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/0
42 474218 : Since the flight crew ia about eighty feet forward they only have lights to look, they may not have known that anything was wrong. I agree, something
43 Spacecadet : Probably the same thing that happens to a car's (non-sealing) fuel tank when shot with a bullet: nothing. I've always wondered about that on cars and
44 Ghost77 : Any recent information? Has it been fixed? Is it a WFU? g77
45 Sfomb67 : Been a couple more weeks, any word on this ? ? ? Guess the Saudi's kept a pretty tight lid on this !
46 Soon7x7 : How and when it happened is one thing, the part still looks like a gear link that may have been forced up as a result of other failure...if I'm wrong
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