Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Don't EK Extend Business Class Cabins  
User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

As the title implies, I am amazed that EK do not want to improve profitability even further by providing more Business Class rows. I mean their hard product is one of the worst and most inconsistent amongst leading carriers, however they always seem to be full in all directions, particularly at the last minute. I tried to book a long haul flight for January - 10 months from now - and Business Class was full and the waitlist was closed!!

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25127 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fly2CHC (Thread starter):
by providing more Business Class rows. I mean their hard product is one of the worst and most inconsistent amongst leading carriers, however they always seem to be full in all directions

I've flown their Business Class several times, and I consider it it as good as any in the business. For me, it surely has not been inconsistent.

The puzzle is - if you think it is "the worst", why are you trying to book with them?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2487 times:



Quoting Fly2CHC (Thread starter):
I am amazed that EK do not want to improve profitability even further by providing more Business Class rows.

4 words ...

massive world recession coming

I think they put more Y class seats in aircraft, as even EK will have to dump some seats with all the extra capacity coming online in next year or 2.

Tapis Crude hit $111.73 today !!!

Prediction of petro in Australia to be AUD$3 a litre within 10 years. I think this might be optimistic, although a lot depends on hard hard the recession hits & if we actually go into a depression.


User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2358 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):
why are you trying to book with them?

Network, loyalty programme, and amazing IFE. In terms of Business Class seating compared to others I am familiar with they are miles behind EY, BA, VS, NZ, LH, and even the new GF seats.

E.g of EK inconsistency:

The current 773 J seats on AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB, seats which are cramped and poorly recline. No ICE on one of their longest network legs.

The current 77W (two class) J seats on KUL-DXB, seats which are very cramped and poorly recline. At least they have ICE.

The current 332 J seats, seats which have a lot of leg room, but are still just 'seats'. No ICE that I am aware of.

The current 345 J seats on CHC-DXB, Z-shaped seats (i.e. no bed) with ICE system.

The current 77L (I understand), angled lie flat seats with ICE system.

The current 772 J seats, nice finishings but they are only seats and are again different from other aircraft.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

sorry typo ...

should have said

I think (b)they'LL(/b) put more Y class seats in aircraft, as even EK will have to dump some seats with all the extra capacity coming online in next year or 2.[/

Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 2):
Quoting Fly2CHC (Thread starter):
I am amazed that EK do not want to improve profitability even further by providing more Business Class rows.

4 words ...

massive world recession coming

I think they put more Y class seats in aircraft, as even EK will have to dump some seats with all the extra capacity coming online in next year or 2.



User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2332 times:



Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 3):
The current 773 J seats on AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB, seats which are cramped and poorly recline. No ICE on one of their longest network legs.

FYI, EK have now been operating 777-300ERs on AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB for over a month. This service features the lie-flat J seats as seen below:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hannes Meyer



You make a good argument though. I understand SYD gets the 77Ws with the new F and the cradle J seats, while MEL's SIN-DXB 773 service has cradle seats in First and Business (unless of course one of their upgraded 777-300s operates the flight).

Cheers


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5524 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2331 times:



Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 3):
The current 773 J seats on AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB, seats which are cramped and poorly recline. No ICE on one of their longest network legs.

Well the 77W now operates this route with its first class suite and lie-flat business class seats. It is the only Australian/NZ route to have lie-flat beds in first and business class


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2246 times:



Quoting Fly2CHC (Thread starter):
I tried to book a long haul flight for January - 10 months from now - and Business Class was full and the waitlist was closed!!

So that implies they are seeing the business class cabin filled up with upgrades. Surely they are doing the right thing and dont want to increrase seats in J, so as to force people to pay for the actual J seat as opposed to assume they will get an upgrade. EK's business model would then make perfect sense to me. If you want to sit in F or J, pay for it or you will probably be in Y if thats the ticket you have bought.


User currently offlineAA757200 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2139 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 2):
Prediction of petro in Australia to be AUD$3 a litre within 10 years.

10 year predictions of fuel price levels are a bit far out to worry about. There is SO much event risk between 2008 and 2018, you can't even begin to get comfortable with that price prediction. Listen, I am not saying that I think prices are headed down between now and then, but with all the factors in the global perspective that can and do impact crude / refined product prices - I would put ZERO stock in a 10 year price prediction made today. All it takes is another 9/11, ENRON, or some other global event to drive those prices up higher; OR the opposite could happen, and prices could trail off.

I certainly agree that we are in for a very rough ride in the short to mid run, but it troubles me greatly when speculators make such wild assumptions over such a long term, and people react to it, sending markets into arbitrary states of panic. Lets deal with what we know is going on now, and not guess what is going to happen in 10 years. Yeah...that will happen.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1889 times:



Quoting AA757200 (Reply 8):
I certainly agree that we are in for a very rough ride in the short to mid run, but it troubles me greatly when speculators make such wild assumptions over such a long term, and people react to it, sending markets into arbitrary states of panic. Lets deal with what we know is going on now, and not guess what is going to happen in 10 years. Yeah...that will happen.

sorry should have said, it was an oil company CEO, BP I think.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

While EK is a premium airline, they also largely cater for the tourist and worker traffic markets.

So to reduce Y class significantly to cater for J class pax does no necessarily make sense.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25127 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1820 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 3):
Network, loyalty programme, and amazing IFE.

I guess I'm still confused. I'm not sure why you would want to fly them if you think they have "the worst" Business Class?

Other airlines have network, loyalty programs and good - if not "amazing" - IFE.

Nor have I encountered the inconsistencies you cite, although I have not flown every aircraft type in their fleet. But put me in Business Class on the A345, for example, and I'm as happy as a clam.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1720 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
Other airlines have network, loyalty programs and good - if not "amazing" - IFE.

Network
SQ and EK are the only two carriers which can be used from the Middle East to fly into CHC. SQ don't fly to even half the destinations EK do in Europe or with the frequency. Also, flying SQ you don't have the option to stopover in SYD,MEL, BNE, CMB, or BKK to/from NZ.

Loyalty Programme
Quite straightforward to get up to Gold status. Online skywards engine is superb, and in the past upgrades could be used as long as their highest RBD classes were available (e.g. F or J)

Inflight
No other airline comes even close to 1000+ AVOD entertainment options as on the ICE system on EK's newer aircraft. This, to me, is one of the most important factors on really long journeys.

I guess you have a point though. An airline's product needs to be judged on all aspects, not just the seating. To me the seating is what really lets them down. But, from an airline revenue management perspective, it works because they can cram in a huge amount of additional seats (as opposed to if they went flat bed) and they can still get the bums to fill them all.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25127 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1701 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 12):
An airline's product needs to be judged on all aspects, not just the seating.

Each to their own, always. For me, it starts with the service and the food.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4008 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1700 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 10):
While EK is a premium airline, they also largely cater for the tourist and worker traffic markets.

So to reduce Y class significantly to cater for J class pax does no necessarily make sense.

This is understandable but what about the ULHR's they are doing? I would think and hope they would have a dedicated fleet of a more upgraded premium a/c for routes that are ULHR's: Dubai-SYD/MEL/BNE/SYD/*JFK/IAH/LAX.
It does seem their inflight service is inconsistant. I'm surprised they don't offer full flat seats in J, again, especially on these ULHRs. *A388 service starting this year but does this mean a better product for one of the few routes that will utilize this a/c?
Their new flights to LAX will be interesting to watch and see how they develop and what their customers think of EK's product. There's a lot of premium traffic out of LAX and if they don't offer an excellent,superior service, I don't see people sticking around and using them frequently or becoming loyal to them though they will offer a three class fproduct when you compare it to SQ (all J) and Thai J/Y+/Y.

Slightly off topic, does anyone know if EK has thought about or are considering developing a Premium Y cabin? Even if it's just for these ULHRs? From what I have read in TRs and in other threads here, it seems the consenus is their main cabin is dreadful for these long flights, small seats, cramped cabins. Their IFE, ICE doesn't seem to me that would or will save the day on these flights.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
EK 773ER Business Class Not Enough! posted Thu Sep 8 2005 06:26:30 by Lufthansa
Rio De Janeiro SDU - Why Don't They Extend The Rwy posted Sat Jan 10 2004 10:37:58 by Mozart
Large Business Class Cabins posted Sun Jul 18 1999 22:53:42 by Fly US Airways
Why Is European Business Class So Poor? posted Tue Jan 29 2008 18:20:37 by Farnborough24
Why No Business Class On US Domestic Flights? posted Sat Jan 27 2007 18:22:26 by 8herveg
JL, Why Don't They Upgrade F/C Class Cabin? posted Sat Sep 23 2006 02:55:55 by Ktachiya
Europe Business Class: Just Don't Understand This! posted Mon Feb 13 2006 19:11:27 by RootsAir
Y Vs. W Vs. J/C Vs. F- Why 2 Business Class Codes? posted Thu Apr 14 2005 16:48:44 by Lrgt
Any News On EK "new" Business Class posted Mon Mar 29 2004 19:04:48 by Nflippa
Why No Ptvs In Klms New Business Class posted Sun Oct 26 2003 05:17:51 by Boeing 747-311