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Continental Pilots Picket On Wall Street - Video  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3095 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6160 times:

This location for a picket line is something new. I think it is a great idea to bring your concerns right out into the view of investors. Some of the signs that are being held in the picket line state "The Loan Is Due". No doubt previous give-backs to help the company are part of the issue here. Maybe some Continental folk can explain more.

Courtesy: TheStreet.com

Continental Picket Line Lands on Wall Street - Video

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/vide...HOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#10407672

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6119 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
This location for a picket line is something new. I think it is a great idea to bring your concerns right out into the view of investors.

The people that are least likely to sympthize with unions?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6073 times:

I think the point is, investors don't want trouble, so the pilots indicate there may be some ahead. Giving them a chance to let the airline know, if they want to avoid unpleasantness...


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6065 times:

its going to be hard for all groups to get more money with the cost of oil constantly rising. There has been talk about us as management finally getting raises after 7 years in hte year 2009. But that was being said when oil was around $90/barrel. As high as it is now, unfortunately, I think we may be experiencing another year with no pay raise.  Sad


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6024 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 3):
its going to be hard for all groups to get more money with the cost of oil constantly rising

These groups have zero economic sense, so I don't see an American recession or $110 oil stopping them any time soon.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 2):
Giving them a chance to let the airline know, if they want to avoid unpleasantness...

Yeah, blackmail--we've seen this before Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6007 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
I think it is a great idea to bring your concerns right out into the view of investors.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of them (the investors) don't care. They don't give a crap about any of the companies that their investing in, either. Most of them are after a quick buck, and will not hesitate to sue the board of directors if in, their opinion, the board isn't maximizing the stock value for the short term  Sad I'm afraid CO's pilots will find a rather unsympathetic ear here...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5982 times:

Oil is skyrocketing, and now they want payraises? Lovely timing, pilots' group!  Yeah sure

User currently offlineValkyrie01 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5904 times:

What about the "if oils get to $65 a barrel the company was going to go under" years later oils is above $65 a barrel,there is profit sharing and the company is buying new airplanes.


The best there is the best there was the best there ever will be
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5696 times:

Kindof ironic since CO just did so well on Fortune's list. Perhaps that's what incited the pilots to picket?


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

I hope the best for the pilots and CO on coming to a good agreement

User currently offlineVal From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

So I guess "most admired" does not necessarily mean "most loved" by their employees?

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5564 times:



Quoting Val (Reply 10):

this kind of reaction would come from most any company after pay cuts were taken and back to back profitable years. Sooner or later those who gave money back are going to want more money when the company is making money again.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

It's almost comical that this industry is so held hostage by organized labor even after all the lessons of the past. I don't think the cycle will ever end. Be it CO, AA, DL... whomever.

It's stunning that labor looks for the first signs of an airlines' positive earnings results and goes for the gold with picket signs, citing "payback time," with utter ignorance to the fact that even in the best of years, the ROI for even the most profitable US airline is still absolutely miserable relative to the average ROI for American industry in general.

CO's profits are lame at best although terrific relative to their peers, and their ROI still sucks like everyone else's. But by-golly, it's a positive number and not a negative one, so it's time to pay those pilots back for sacrifice! (screw everyone else that works there, of course - let em fend it themselves)

Bobby Crandall said it best many years ago - the best thing an airline company in modern times can do for it's shareholders is to dump the airline and venture into another type of business.

Just the opinion of someone outside looking in on this industry. Flame me all you like, but it's the way I see it.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineVal From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

I understand what you're saying. What I am trying to say that Fortune's "Most Admired" list is bullshit when they rank "top companies" not taking into account that the "big profits" a company makes is related to taking monetary concessions from their front-line workers.

User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Right now they should be lucky they are flying. Alpa appears to have other airline pilots there as well otherwise there would have been alot of canceled flights. Im sure they gave concessions in good faith in 2005 but i dougt the airline was looking to forsee 110.00 a barrel. Imo they should hold out until after the elections or january and see how the economy is doing then. Im sure they are better off than flying a freight dawg caravan at 3 am if they walk.


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 11):
this kind of reaction would come from most any company after pay cuts were taken and back to back profitable years. Sooner or later those who gave money back are going to want more money when the company is making money again.



Quoting Val (Reply 13):
I understand what you're saying. What I am trying to say that Fortune's "Most Admired" list is bullshit when they rank "top companies" not taking into account that the "big profits" a company makes is related to taking monetary concessions from their front-line workers.

This is the problem gang -   

Continental is ***NOT*** making BIG profits. Nor is ANY US airline, today, or in the last 5 years. The only thing BIG about CO's profits is the nice histogram you get when you line them up with the profits of it's peer companies in the industry, it's a positive number and not a negative one! Then they look big - but ONLY then.

Like I said, it's all scale. Profit is only meaningful relative to investment. Citing that an airline has 'back to back years of profitable operations' means NOTHING if the ROI is as miserable as it is.

Until people understand this and acknowledge it, this industry will be in a constant state of give, take, bankrupt, take, give, take, bankrupt, and everyone will stay miserable. Unions aren't ignorant to this - they ABSOLUTELY understand it - they just refuse to acknowledge it because the members don't want to acknowledge it themsevles. Whether members understand it or not is questionable, because rightfully so, the most important thing to them is their checkbook - and that's what they vote with.

[Edited 2008-03-13 22:54:12]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

I too have come to the conclusion that picketing today really does no good. Especially informational picketing. The public and I suspect most A netters have no sympathy for the guy walking the picket line no matter if the reason is justified or not because most of the flying public are ignorant to the woes of the working airline employee. I remember walking the picket line in 2005. This was right after the hurricane had devastated the gulf coast and I had a woman tell me I should be ashamed of myself and I should use my energy to help the victims of Katrina.. I really wanted to tell her the whole story but I felt she wouldn't understand anyway. I was out of a job and was walking the line to get it back. I was not doing it for a raise in pay. In fact we accepted a 26 percent pay cut but nwa wanted more because there whole intent was to bust the union. So my point is picketing might make you feel good and you might feel that you are doing something constructive but I know from what I have seen that today it is a waste of energy and you will get NO sympathy except from other airline employees who are equally screwed.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineCirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4703 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Oil is skyrocketing, and now they want payraises? Lovely timing, pilots' group!

Perhaps it is upper managments turn to give back? Oh, that's right, this does not apply to them!


User currently offlineBNinMSY From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Airlines are keeping up with those fuel cost through surcharges.
Next time you purchase a ticket - just ask what the fuel surcharges are. You might be shocked.
E.g. on a ticket to Mexico, Continental and American are charging $90 roundtrip per person.
Europe and S. America .. even far higher!

I'm not saying it's wrong .. but at some point they just need to raise the fares ...

So .. I'm with the pilots (I think)... the airlines are passing along rising cost to the consumer in most cases. They have been loyal and work hard (like all employees at CO) and deserve to be rewarded for creating the most admired airline in the US. That is not an untruth they are the best.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

Quoting BNinMSY (Reply 18):
I'm not saying it's wrong .. but at some point they just need to raise the fares ...

Agreed. See my post in the "UA to Increase Fares up to $50" Thread...

[Edited 2008-03-14 10:42:29]

[Edited 2008-03-14 10:42:54]


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 17):
Perhaps it is upper managments turn to give back?

Because they're making too much right? Pilots make up 90% of the top earners at just about any airline.

[Edited 2008-03-14 11:47:52]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4009 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
"The Loan Is Due". No doubt previous give-backs to help the company are part of the issue here. Maybe some Continental folk can explain more.

The only people who thought they were "loaning" money to CO were the unions. CO didn't call it a "loan" nor treat it as such, nor did the investors or creditors. It's sort of like cutting the rent you charge a tenant, and then two years later coming back and saying: "you owe me for the cut rent." "Really? Why?"

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Oil is skyrocketing, and now they want payraises? Lovely timing, pilots' group!

Not to mention a recession. Unionized legacy airline pilots are one of the highest paid professions in the USA. Demanding a raise while everyone else is worried about paying their mortgage or losing their job seems greedy, especially to the F/As and rampers at CO.

Why don't the pilots wait until next year to be militant?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

I particularly loved the "THE LOAN IS DUE" signs.

When are these airline unions going to get it? They are just so delusional and out of touch. Have they not turned on a TV or opened a newspaper in the last 18 months?

The concessions they gave up were permanent, nothing else. It's not like they're going to get that back, as they were overpaid to begin with, and with fuel now around $100/barrel and climbing, that isn't changing anytime soon.

These union types that are still fighting to get back to their 2000 pay are not living in reality. It's a new world, and the bloated and expensive post-deregulation salary/benefit packages they enjoyed up until 9/11 - which were, again, bloated and expensive, even then - are completely impossible in 2008. It's just not going to happen.


User currently offlineFlyin5glow From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3711 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):

it is not their problem that oil is as expensive as it is, just because America is addicted to petroleum doesn't means that pilots should pay the consequences. They are pilots not oil executives.  Angry



Go Huskies
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3592 times:



Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 17):

give what back?? We havent had a raise since 2000/2001.

Quoting Flyin5glow (Reply 23):

what consequences are the pilots having???



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
25 Falcon84 : But when profits are going to turn into losses because oil is skyrockeiting, it also means that pilots shouldn't be demanding more.
26 Commavia : No, but it does mean that the bloated compensation they expected before 9/11 (and certainly before the spike in oil prices) is not going to be possib
27 CALMSP : bottome line is........they dont deserve it anymore than any other employee at the company. Although it seems like they are making a statement that th
28 DualQual : Well it seems we have money for the mentioned terminal expansion at EWR (C-4), AVOD in Y on the 75's, money to spend moving jetways around at EWR, mon
29 Mariner : Here's one a.netter who has a deal of sympathy for them. I think the pilots have every right to show how they feel. mariner
30 Commavia : The total net cost of all of those things - added up together - probably equals less than giving a 5% raise to every Continental employee. All of tho
31 KAUSpilot : Which is all the more reason never to give it up in the first place. The unions needs a stronger national/international backbone to say "no" to the c
32 Commavia : Great strategy: price yourself out of a job. There is one gaping problem with this logic, though: airlines liquidating is going to lead to lower, not
33 Post contains links Mariner : Which may not be the worst thing to happen to US airline industry. Something may have to give. Or should it go the other way - airline execs pursuing
34 KAUSpilot : Oh well. Eastern probably needed to die. UAL or AAA probably needed to die about 5 years ago. Maybe if some of the unions would've stood their ground
35 Commavia : Absolutely. I don't think it would be a bad thing at all. Indeed, I have long said here on A.net that having one of the major U.S. carriers go out of
36 Mariner : I'd call Chapter 11 a splendid hiding place from market forces. mariner
37 DualQual : The same market that allows Delta to pay new hires almost 18K a year more even with a trip through BK? I don't have access to the thread but a signif
38 KAUSpilot : Because most people are inherently lazy and will maintain the status quo as long as possible until they are forced to take such action. But....this i
39 Fleet Service : You couldn't be father from the truth, look at the employees of US Air, they took three separate rounds of paycuts, had benefits cut to the bone, but
40 Commavia : I would agree with you - in the short run. But even Chapter 11 cannot insulate a company from the market forever. Just look at the U.S. airline lands
41 Mariner : Not quite. No legacy airline went bankrupt. Four out of six legacy airlines have sought "protection" from going bankrupt. On airline did it twice, in
42 Commavia : Incorrect. "Chapter 11" reorganization is considered bankruptcy in the United States. I know that in foreign countries, the word "bankruptcy" typical
43 Mariner : Okay, I'll accept what you say, but Chapter 7 is what I would define as "bankruptcy". Chapter 11 - bankruptcy protection - call it what you will, is
44 Ikramerica : No, it's bankruptcy without liquidation. It's a way to protect creditors, employees and suppliers/customers. Yes, it DOES protect employees. The alte
45 GoBoeing : Why would the price of oil have anything to do with years of paycuts?
46 Commavia : Because the payscales that were only mildly uneconomic at $20/barrel, and painful at $50/barrel, are now virtually impossible to viably sustain at $1
47 Mariner : Then it is bankruptcy without liquidation - which is protection from liquidation - which is what bankruptcy, insolvency, the inability to pay one's d
48 Gigneil : Why would they? They have their OWN shit to worry about. $300k 747-400 drivers wanting $350k when they can't pay their bills? She was right. You want
49 Post contains images Mariner : I don't think I said otherwise. But it doesn't mean that a better, more efficient, more profitable airline will come out of it. I spent my working li
50 KAUSpilot : You have no idea how unions work. I am embarasssed for you and your ignorance.
51 EA CO AS : And the lion's share of those are U.S. and Mexico departure taxes, tourism taxes, USDA fees, etc. Read the "XT" box for total tax when you look at yo
52 Post contains links KarlB737 : And now this little tidbit: Courtesy: The Houston Chronicle Continental Warns Of 'Tough Decisions' "We can absorb these extraordinary high fuel prices
53 Post contains images Flyin5glow : While I understand your point, I still cannot agree with the fact that these men and women should just give up. what's nex? pilots with a 30+ year se
54 Bahadir : Tell that to some of my friends who are working part time at Home Depot or waiting tables when they are on reserve.
55 Coewraatysaz : Please.... if anything the company should give back to us non-unionized frontline workers. These pilots make enough money.
56 IAHERJ : The pilots are not trying to take away anything from any other work group. They are voicing their concerns to the management of the airline and the ot
57 Ikramerica : Obviously. Because if you did, you would realize how greedy this action is at this time, with the economy going south, the financial markets falling
58 IAHERJ : You obviously have a beef with pilots. That's okay. A raise would be taking our pay rates back to our 1997 rates(the rates negotiated before our giveb
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