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YVR Gets Off To Flying Start In 2008  
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Recent traffic figures have just been released for January 2008.

Traffic is up 9.2% over January 2007.

Leading the way was a 20.9% increase in Asia Pacific traffic (assuming due to Oasis, Air Canada to SYD and Air New Zealand).

This includes, of course, the loss of Harmony Airways. The effect of this is indicated in the stats for charter domestic (down 81.1%) and charter transborder traffic (down 99.4% to practically nil). This was clearly offset by strong increases in the scheduled domestic (up 9.9%) and scheduled transborder traffic (up 6.8%).

So all in all, a great start for 2008. Will be interesting to see the February stats to see if this trend keeps up - good growth was noted in December 2007 over 2006 as well.

In comparison, YEG saw 7.6% growth and YYC saw only 3.1% growth (surprisingly low).

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

It is a very positive start to 2008. Hope YVR can attract some new carrier this year particularly with the Canada-South Korea and Canada - E.U. talks hopefully to be concluded this year.

Latest buzz around the airport is AIr India, talk has Air India starting service last quarter 2008 or 1st quarter 2009 via MUC.

Hope it happens?



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User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4907 times:



Quoting DYK (Reply 1):
Latest buzz around the airport is AIr India, talk has Air India starting service last quarter 2008 or 1st quarter 2009 via MUC.

Hope it happens?

Can't the Air India 772LRs reach BOM from YVR? At 7,629 miles at a 343 degree heading according to the great circle mapper, it should be doable. Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

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DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4878 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

 checkmark  Yes sir! I think we will also see IT with an A345 to DEL, possibly before AI. Quite a few of the East Indians are from the Punjab region, so DEL is a better option for them than BOM - but I think we will see both. Possibly 9W via BRU too once the bi-laterals are sorted.

I think I read that Zoom are going to be having 10 flights a week to the UK alone this summer.

I also believe CX will be replacing the 343 with a 77W, so that will also be a capacity increase to HKG.

NZ seem to be doing very well and are adding an extra flight, with the intention of maybe going daily.

GSM will be back again this summer (if they are not bought by BD, find enough aircraft etc etc etc........) and are adding DUB - I think that should work.

Of course QX have upgraded many flights from the 37 seat Q200 to the 74 seat Q400.

Even little 8P are growing with more and more Saabs coming.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

I'm sure the carriers have thought of it. It may be a yield issue, it may be a bilateral issue, it may be a lack of airplanes issue, it may be a priority issue, it may be an issue that other Indian carriers have already announced their intention to serve YVR. I realize this may not be very helpful to you, but we all know there are dozens of factors at play in the route planning rooms of the airline HQs.

Quoting DYK (Reply 1):
Hope YVR can attract some new carrier this year particularly with the Canada-South Korea and Canada - E.U. talks hopefully to be concluded this year.

I wonder of any new carriers would enter the Canada-Korea market, or if those talks are aimed at strengthening links between existing cities using existing carriers, and perhaps fending off SQ. YVR is already served by AC, KE and SQ to ICN.
The only real lack I see in the EU sphere is a YVR-CDG route, using AC or AF with an oft-discussed PPT extension. No idea as to the economic feasibility of such a service though, or if it's beneficial to AF to change or compete with the service via LAX.

[Edited 2008-03-15 09:57:28]

[Edited 2008-03-15 09:59:45]


The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4851 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
The only real lack I see in the EU sphere is a YVR-CDG route, using AC or AF with an oft-discussed PPT extension

There have been ongoing rumours that Air Tahiti Nui would do this, though I really dont think there would be good enough yields for a PPT add on. Interestingly the French AF make a few trips a year with a A342 via YVR, I guess troop related. I think AC could make a couple of trips a week with a 763 to CDG, though maybe SS could be another option, though the 744 is probably too big and I dont think they have enough A332's to spare.

I think AC could add MIA again too with a 319.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4846 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
The only real lack I see in the EU sphere is a YVR-CDG route, using AC or AF with an oft-discussed PPT extension. No idea as to the economic feasibility of such a service though.

The Canada-France bilateral as I recall hasn't been favorable to YVR, giving all sorts of preferential perks to YUL. I would think AC going YVR-CDG would be very workable. And while this might seam far out and bring in a third party customs issue with the infamous U.S. (pre-clearence FIS though!), DL could decide to dump one of the three CRJ flights to YVR and bring back a 738 or even a 752 to SLC to take advantage of the 763ER service from SLC-CDG. Just a thought on the latter!  twocents 

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 3):
 checkmark  Yes sir! I think we will also see IT with an A345 to DEL, possibly before AI. Quite a few of the East Indians are from the Punjab region, so DEL is a better option for them than BOM - but I think we will see both. Possibly 9W via BRU too once the bi-laterals are sorted.

I think many carriers will learn in the years ahead that not every North America to India route has to go via YYZ, JFK or even LAX. You're quite right about DEL, and YVR might give many over on the western side of the continent a better option than JFK-BOM.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4814 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
I wonder of any new carriers would enter the Canada-Korea market, or if those talks are aimed at strengthening links between existing cities using existing carriers, and perhaps fending off SQ. YVR is already served by AC, KE and SQ to ICN.

Asiana would be a possibility but the new bilateral would give Korean Air better access into YVR, maybe even a 5th freedom to South America or the U.S,A,??? I can see Asiana entering the market as the YVR-ICN route has been growing year after year and the load factors ont his route are pretty decent, I am guessing the yield is not bad either?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Can't the Air India 772LRs reach BOM from YVR? At 7,629 miles at a 343 degree heading according to the great circle mapper, it should be doable. Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable

Maybe, I dont know. Just repeating the talk of the town.



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

Perhaps one of the things we will see is PAL starting an MNL-YVR-SAN services on an A340...

Probably about the same time as that new international terminal at MNL opens.  Sad

Oh well...  cry 



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4802 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Can't the Air India 772LRs reach BOM from YVR? At 7,629 miles at a 343 degree heading according to the great circle mapper, it should be doable. Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

According to this, there should be.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo53e.htm
South Asian refers to Indo-Canadians, and are the largest minority group after the Chinese. Consider how many flights there are to China from YVR, yet none to India!. Even the Filipinos have a direct connection to their homeland, and their numbers are not even 1/3 of the South Asians.


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4783 times:



Quoting DYK (Reply 1):
talk has Air India starting service last quarter 2008 or 1st quarter 2009 via MUC.

I think Air Canada or Lufthansa metal will be used on YVR-MUC most likely as an Air Canada/Lufthansa/Air India codeshare flight.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4785 times:



Quote:
Can't the Air India 772LRs reach BOM from YVR? At 7,629 miles at a 343 degree heading according to the great circle mapper, it should be doable. Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

You are correct in that a 772LR can do YVR-BOM nonstop in both directions, and you hit upon the key to getting a non-stop service started - commercial enterprises.

However, there are issues associated with VFR flights and passengers - first, those already in the YVR area may have frequent flyer miles with another airline on a one-stop route OR will be fare-shopping, looking for the least expensive fare. Second, a non-stop route such as YVR-BOM will be a premium service, with generally more expensive fares because of the convenience of the non-stop. One must also take into account whether these VFR pax are all from area of India or are from different regions, which requires them to transfer again to get to their home airports. In such cases, it comes down to where they want to change planes AND which is cheaper.

For example, if they are headed to Hyderabad or Chennai, it might be cheaper to do BA YVR-LHR-MAA/HYD, rather than YVR-BOM-MAA/HYD - especially if one already has miles accrued.

But if Vancouver can get those business ties started with Bombay, and you'll see someone starting a YVR-BOM/DEL route pretty quick!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4765 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 9):
Consider how many flights there are to China from YVR, yet none to India!.

The South Asian community has traditionally been very price-conscious and the business ties have been more recent. Trying to avoid generalizations, many of the Indian populations of BC have been involved in farming, millwork and labour, not necessarily the lucrative corporate travel coveted by airlines. That is of course beginning to change.

Finally, YVR still pales in comparison to the YYZ business market.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

Other international flight increases expected, that have not already been mentioned are:

Confirmed:
O8 will be going daily for the summer period (up from 6/wk last summer)
MX will be at 11 flights/week (up from 9 last summer)
AC to ICN going to 10/week. AC to ZIH (new)
US daily to PHL
WS to HNL/OGG daily for the summer (last year was seasonal)
MP to AMS up to 3 (from 2)
DE to FRA up to 3 (from 2)
AM to CUN (1 weekly charters for Sunwing)
WG to PVR (1 weekly charter)
TCX doubling flights to 6 per week (replacing My Travel)

On top of those, the following have had media releases:
CZ to CAN daily by summer 2009
AI, IT and 9W to India have all had press releases - no dates confirmed (who knows if any of these will come about - a matter of time - I am sure but who knows?)
QF to SYD when they get 787 a/c
PR to SAN from MNL (PR to daily then?)

And other speculations mentioned:
MU studying replacing non-stop SHA flights with through flights through YVR (was discussed last year)
NZ through to MAN

However, these are being offset by decreases in capacity on JL-NRT, AC-PEK, QF-SFO/SYD and some transborder capacity cuts.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4604 times:



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 13):
And other speculations mentioned:
MU studying replacing non-stop SHA flights with through flights through YVR (was discussed last year)
NZ through to MAN

Could you please explain the possible through flights to Shanghai for me? The YVR-PDG sector would be non-stop, correct? Or would it stop somewhere en route?

The NZ rumour seems juicy enough. That would be an excellent announcement.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4398 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 14):
Could you please explain the possible through flights to Shanghai for me? The YVR-PDG sector would be non-stop, correct? Or would it stop somewhere en route?

Sorry - meant to say "through flights to JFK." There was speculation last year that the nonstop PVG-JFK flights were not performing well enough. It was thought the flights would change to a YVR stopover en-route. This did not come to fruition, however, still a possibility.


User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4380 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 14):
Could you please explain the possible through flights to Shanghai for me? The YVR-PDG sector would be non-stop, correct? Or would it stop somewhere en route?

Sorry - meant to say "through flights to JFK." There was speculation last year that the nonstop PVG-JFK flights were not performing well enough. It was thought the flights would change to a YVR stopover en-route. This did not come to fruition, however, still a possibility.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4166 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Aren't there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

I'm sure the carriers have thought of it. It may be a yield issue, it may be a bilateral issue, it may be a lack of airplanes issue, it may be a priority issue, it may be an issue that other Indian carriers have already announced their intention to serve YVR. I realize this may not be very helpful to you, but we all know there are dozens of factors at play in the route planning rooms of the airline HQs.

AC had announced YVR-DEL nonstop service in 2001 using the A340-300. Unfortunately it was planned to begin just a month after 9/11 and the planned new route was cancelled before it began. Related AC press release at the time below.
http://www.aircanada.jp/news/jpen-20010312.pdf

Kingfisher recently announced their interest in starting service to YVR but without any specific starting date.
http://www.yvr.ca/authority/airmail/archive_details.asp?id=899

According to the YVR Airport Authority (in the press release above), DEL is YVR's largest international origin/destination market without direct service.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
there enough people of East Indian decent or recent immigrants, or other commercial enterprises in B.C. Canada to make a non-stop economically justifiable?

Excerpt from a recent British Columbia government press release referring to Kingfisher's plans:

India was the second-highest source for immigrants settling in British Columbia in 2006. In the 2001 census, more than 180,000 British Columbians identified themselves as being Indian in origin. Approximately 28 per cent of all Indian tourists to Canada arrived through Vancouver in 2006.


User currently offlineTwizzler From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4020 times:



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
The only real lack I see in the EU sphere is a YVR-CDG route, using AC or AF with an oft-discussed PPT extension. No idea as to the economic feasibility of such a service though, or if it's beneficial to AF to change or compete with the service via LAX.

Actually both Transat and Zoom offer service to CDG. Transat is new this year, and Zoom has been doing this for a few years now (seasonal). Not sure if Zoom will try to continue into a year round service. Would be nice.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3877 times:



Quoting Twizzler (Reply 18):
Actually both Transat and Zoom offer service to CDG. Transat is new this year, and Zoom has been doing this for a few years now (seasonal). Not sure if Zoom will try to continue into a year round service. Would be nice.

It was actually Threepoint youre quoting, not me. You are correct, I guess he was referring to full service. Personally, Id actually prefer to fly Zoom than a non XM'd AC 763 for 12 hours, but I still think theres room for a full service carrier to make 2-3 trips a week work despite Z4 and TS.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3866 times:



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 19):
but I still think theres room for a full service carrier to make 2-3 trips a week work despite Z4 and TS.

If you want to be competitive for high yield business traffic these days you need daily (or almost daily) service. Otherwise you're only going to get the Y class price-sensitive traffic.


User currently offlineAC747 From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 277 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3851 times:



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 3):
GSM will be back again this summer (if they are not bought by BD, find enough aircraft etc etc etc........) and are adding DUB - I think that should work.

I read somewhere that YVR is BA's third most popular destination from DUB via LHR...would indicate that there's enough traffic for the once weekly flights intended by GSM.
Let's hope GSM have their problems sorted out for this year and we get no repeats of last year's sham.
I know a few people who have put their hard earned Euros down and are flying the DUB-YVR route with them in the Summer. Bit of a risk? Could be.
What is the deal if BMI buy them out...do you think they will abandon routes like this and possibly concentrate on L/H out of Scotland and maybe MAN?
I travel back and forth between Ireland and BC a few times a year and it would certainly make life a lot more pleasurable if I could use a decent non-stop service.

On another note - another friend of mine is coming over on June 27th via LHR with AC. The flight is in the schedules as a 763. Any ideas on the chances of getting one of the new re-fitted models? The last time I flew Air Comrade to LHR was a couple of years back and we had the joy of travelling on an old bird with the over head screens etc.

Thanks.
Happy Paddy's Day, by the way !



Haven't we been here before ?
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3840 times:



Quoting AC747 (Reply 21):
On another note - another friend of mine is coming over on June 27th via LHR with AC. The flight is in the schedules as a 763. Any ideas on the chances of getting one of the new re-fitted models?

I think AC planned to have all the 763s finished by June. By the end of this month 20 of their 30 or so 763s will be completed.


User currently offlineAC747 From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 277 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Thanks for that Viscount 724.
It's becoming difficult to keep up with what model is being re-fitted and when.
Good news if they're all finished by the end of June.



Haven't we been here before ?
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3805 times:

Quoting YVR1968 (Thread starter):
YEG saw 7.6% growth and YYC saw only 3.1% growth (surprisingly low).

YEG is bound to ease up on the double digit growth they've been having. There are no real route expansions set up for 2008, so i expect YEG to maintain a steady growth, but far from double digits. YYC is bound to ease up on the growth as well. 2006 was 11% growth for YYC , 2007 was 8.5%, so i see them slipping to around 3 to 5% in 2008.

YVR's growth last year was a lousy 3.4%, so i'm glad to see them bouncing back this year. Air India and Jet Airways will surely help the cause with their new service to YVR.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2008-03-17 15:29:21]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
25 Burnsie28 : I'm sure it helped that NW returned to year round service finally.
26 Connector4you : And a breaking rumor - Vancouver Province : Westjet to start Vancouver to New York Newark
27 GARUDAROD : Air Berlin is going to fly YVR to Gran Canaria?????? WTF is that. Didnt know so many Western Canadians jetted off to the Canary Islands. I wonder how
28 YVRLTN : You sure thats not via DUS with the existing LT flight?? AB are marketing a lot of onward connections to their flights from DUS (and ZRH off the Bela
29 SLCUT2777 : Now if they can just convince DL to put the 738, MD-90 or 752 back onto YVR-SLC instead of that over-booked CRJ-7! You'll be amazed at how many go to
30 Viscount724 : A major European hub like CDG with worldwide connections can hardly be compared with NZ's service YVR-AKL which is a much smaller market. The entire
31 YVR1968 : Do you have a link to this item? Are you sure this wasn't the YYC-EWR announcement? I cannot find anything on The Province or Westjet's website. Do y
32 Post contains links Connector4you : the Newark rumor look down at the end of the article one line above writers credit Also possible Palm Spring increased frequencies out of Vancouver an
33 Visityyj : That doesn't qualify even as a rumor. It is a possibility, but most things are.
34 Post contains images Mk777 : The only suggestion i would have for Indian carriers if they do decide to fly to YVR: AI, DEL-YVR non-stop on the 772LR, will require 2 for a daily fl
35 YVRLTN : Can a A332 do HKG - YVR year round?? I would think via BRU would be more likely, subject to necessary approval. Apparantly the IT Gulfstream was see
36 Post contains links Viscount724 : If I read the Canada-France bilateral correctly, AC can operate between all points in Canada and CDG without any frequency restrictions. The only res
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