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Alitalia Take Over By Air France KLM Status?  
User currently offlineBoeing777/747 From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 643 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

What is the status of the Alitalia take over by Air France KLM? AF KL should have bring out a take over bid yesterday which will be discussed today Saturday 15 March 2008 by Alitalia. Is all going according schedule?

Found a nice Skyteam livery study (animation):

http://www.liladesign.com/aviationportfolio/skyteam/skyteam.html

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9862 times:

Apparently board will have a look at it today and make a decision.

It is only Monday that the full details are expected to be released to the public.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

If Alitalia is taken over by Air France KLM, would Alitalia continue to fly under its own name?

User currently offlinePaneuropean From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9691 times:



Quoting DesertAir (Reply 2):
If Alitalia is taken over by Air France KLM, would Alitalia continue to fly under its own name?

Italian govt. have said that the conditions under which AF-KL can take over AZ are, that AZ will keep it's Italian identity. I assume this means it will keep it's name during the coming years ?!

BTW I like the liladesign Skyteam liveries.  Smile


User currently offlineOwlEye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9664 times:



Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 3):
Italian govt. have said that the conditions under which AF-KL can take over AZ are, that AZ will keep it's Italian identity. I assume this means it will keep it's name during the coming years ?!

BTW I like the liladesign Skyteam liveries.  

Means the same as agreed for KLM when KL was taken over. But for how long....


BTW Thanks!


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9612 times:

Italian politicians can't really make any requests whatsoever,since AZ is bankrupt since some months.
Alitalia had requested an extraordinary 250 M € injection to cover the operations between now and the time the deal is officially signed.
The procedures are much to slow and the anticipated elections with Berlusconi wanting to put his grain of salt to the file,complicate things.AF will not pay more than about 20 cents/share and shall request the lay-off of significantly more than 1400 employees.
Alitalia servizio will be reduced dramatically,more planes than previously thought should be grounded.
It's take it or leave it -AZ have no power whatsoever to impose anything,since clinically dead.
This has been going on for much too long and Italian politicians lose the little remaining credibility they still had.

[Edited 2008-03-15 07:33:26]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9578 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
Italian politicians can't really make any requests whatsoever,since AZ is bankrupt since some months.
Alitalia had requested an extraordinary 250 M € injection to cover the operations between now and the time the deal is officially signed.

I guess that things have reached the point where Alitalia is close to becoming insolvent. IMO time to negotiate has run out. The only conceivable way for Alitalia to avoid bankrupcy is for the AF/KL offer to be accepted. The Italian government has to sign on the dotted line, however undesirable it finds the text above the dotted line.


User currently offlineSR100 From UK - England, joined Dec 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

According a news released by Alitalia this Sunday morning, their board accepts the AF/KL offer to buy 49.9 % of the AZ shares owned by Italy for only € 138 Mio, far less than requested.

However, only the new elected government can approve this sold. Elections are to be held in April.



My favourite planes flown: Lockheed 188 Electra, Tridents, VC-10, B-707, L-1011, A330, E90 + Concorde
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/16/business/16alitalia.php

well that's a good price considering the additional amount of funds required to renovate the company..
But in all both sides can be happy-Italy because the company will be saved,Air France because they buy at a reasonable cost .



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9120 times:

"The Italian group has sold nearly a quarter of its Heathrow slots in three separate deals for a total of €92m (£67m), and is understood to have received a record price of more than £30m for one pair of slots."

That was end of 2007...
So Air France could finance the acquisition of 49% of AZ shares simply by selling some more slots in LHR.
Excellent move by Spinetta and the unions -he'll met them on Wednesday- rather have not many options than to accept the deal.If not he walks away and leaves AZ in bankruptcy.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBardoman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9003 times:

Italy has general elections in mid-April. Silvio Berlusconi stated that, if he comes back to power - quite likely, he will block any plans for take-over/merger with AF-KLM. Plus, he suggested that Milan Malpensa should remain a hub. Keep in mind that Berlusconi's party and its allies are deeply rooted in the Milan area, and suggesting to keep Alitalia independent and Malpensa a hub can bring loads of votes.
It's not clear if he'll keep his word once into office, but any decisions in the dying months of the Prodi's government can be easily overturned by the new one.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8967 times:

Berlusconi has changed his opinion already -other than a big mouth he has nothing to offer.
None of the North-italian banks can rescue Alitalia - the AZ board and the current government know this very well.
The Air One solution is a non-viable suggestion backed politically by North Italian Industry but without any aeronautical substance.
Berlusconi either takes it or AZ is dead and 10.000 people without a job...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBardoman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8931 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 11):
Berlusconi has changed his opinion already

The guy changes idea every minute!
I'm not sure what he really has in mind, and with elections coming there are many empty promises, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually kept Alitalia under government control (or something equivalent). The reason is that there is a strong political and popular support (mainly in Milan and North-Eastern Italy) to keep Alitalia and Malpensa the way they're now.
As for the company going broke, well, public cash will keep it alive. I agree this is less than desirable, but I'm sure they'll find ways to circumvent EU regulations, in particular because Berlusconi is a "Euro-skeptic" and he won't mind upsetting the other members.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8892 times:



Quoting Bardoman (Reply 12):
I'm not sure what he really has in mind

Don't worry : he is not sure either ! And he won't have much choice :

Last night, Alitalia officially said "SI" to te AFKL proposal. It has now to be approved by the Italian Gov. in a month.
They also mentioned this morning in the news that Alitalia is trying to sell some land they own near Fiumicino to make some cash to be able to continue their operations in the coming weeks ....


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8868 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Last night, Alitalia officially said "SI" to te AFKL proposal.

Here is one news report:
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/243249.asp


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8825 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Last night, Alitalia officially said "SI" to te AFKL proposal. It has now to be approved by the Italian Gov. in a month.

I think the government will push this thing trough before elections. Looks like AF-KLM will become AF-KLM-AZ later this year!

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1583 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8817 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
It has now to be approved by the Italian Gov. in a month.

and what next if they dont approve?
buy a dozen 773ER like Silvio wanted them to do in the past and relaunch the prestigious old Alitalia with long haul all over the world?
maybe he could give them some billions to finance this lunacy (richest man in Italy if memory serves me right)

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
They also mentioned this morning in the news that Alitalia is trying to sell some land they own near Fiumicino to make some cash to be able to continue their operations in the coming weeks ....

reveals the state of finances at AZ



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8790 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 16):
and what next if they dont approve?

Then Alitalia will belong to History, just like Swissair, Sabena or PanAm within a few weeks.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 16):
maybe he could give them some billions to finance this lunacy

He might be the richest man of Italy, the European Commission will never allow another single €uro of public money into Alitalia, and he can't just buy AZ by himself !


User currently offlineBoeing777/747 From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8793 times:

AZ had no choice.

Like to see this:

http://www.liladesign.com/aviationportfolio/skyteam/files/page20_4.gif


User currently offlineBardoman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8775 times:

Just found this on Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=anLnHvkcQUkg&refer=home

And this about the nervous reaction of labour unions (in Italian, but Babelfish should do the job):

http://www.corriere.it/economia/08_m...-f33d-11dc-a3d7-0003ba99c667.shtml

[Edited 2008-03-16 05:55:43]

User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8746 times:

I lived in Italy from 1996-1997. It seemed as though unions had a strangle-hold on the nation. I recall constant wild cat strikes by the Roman transit workers, air traffic controllers, various Alitalia unions....newspapers were reporting constant corruption, pay backs to govt. officials by businesses, and often it involed Alitalia. In reading the Bloomberg article I notice that the unions need to approve the purchase by Air France/KLM. I hope they do for the good of the Italian people and those workers who are honest and hard-working.

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8727 times:

Should they refuse,11.000 people in Alitalia and about the same amount of sub-contractors and service-related people working with Alitalia would be without a job within three weeks. Even Italian unions can't be that blind-folded (although they are quite stubborn..)
That would affect 20.000 families or 50.000 Italians . Berlusconi has NO means to circumvent that acceptance.Time has run out already six months ago.AZ - today-are literally without cash.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8608 times:

From the horse's mouth itself, detailing a tiny bit the deal:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/index...2640&no_cache=1&tt_news[BackPid]=2


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8496 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 22):
From the horse's mouth itself, detailing a tiny bit the deal:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/index...id]=2

NB from the link:

"The Air France-KLM offer is conditional on a number of factors, including... the formal agreement of Alitalia's unions."

Will the unions agree?


User currently offlineLollomz From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8458 times:
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Sincerly the AF-KLM offer changed a lot from the first one. Now the offer (per share) is similar to the one made by Air One.
there are a lot of ponts in the AF-KLM offer who are really bad for AZ (for example to close AZ Cargo), and I'm not sure this is the best offer for Alitalia.... there are also conditions asked by AF-KLM who are illegal (!!!)
By the way time will tell about this sad situation.
I always thought, and I'm still convinced, the "old" Alitalia will end this year, the "new" Alitalia will be a sort of regional carrier; sad , sad days for Alitalia...


25 Beaucaire : The sad thing is not the offer of Air France but Italy's incapacity to have the airline managed correctly during the last ten years! If now all of a s
26 FlySSC : Pilots and F/A Unions already called several times for the AFKL solution. They even went to Court to "block" the AirOne offer.
27 Xtoler : See what happens when government gets too involved with business? I know it feels good to let the government handle big decisions by a few pissed off
28 Andaman : True, generally speaking. The Finnish state still owns the majority of Finnair, but it seems to be no problem. The politicians don't try to get invol
29 VV701 : According to Reuters: "ROME (Reuters) - Nearly bankrupt Italian carrier Alitalia has agreed to be bought by Air France-KLM , the world's biggest airli
30 Art : I wonder how long the price is valid. With AZ reportedly losing 1 million euros a day (more than $1.5 million a day) the company's value is dropping
31 Post contains images Bicoastal : He already quit and went to work for Lufthansa.
32 RobertS975 : Anything new today with the AF/KL takeover of AZ? The unions say anything today?
33 Post contains links Jouy31 : The outgoing Italian government has approved the Air France/KLM take-over proposal. http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSL1762911620080317
34 RobertS975 : Sounds like the unions are not happy, which is predictable. Do they understand that the alternative to being taken over by AF/KL is corporate mortali
35 Boeing777/747 : They don't. Italians are 'drama queens' but proud people and prefer to die above choosing a prosperate future. Without AF/KL it's over for Alitalia a
36 Beaucaire : Swiss is currently offering the best deals in many European and Interconti fares out of France and Germany..
37 Runway23 : I don't think that is what the poster meant. He was simply alluding to the fact that Swiss/ Brussels Airlines are new airlines but could be mistaken
38 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Now that the outgoing government has approved the take over, AF-KLM wants to take the next steps: * Getting approval of the new government which is go
39 Post contains links and images LifelinerOne : The first protests are started... According to a small news bit on www.nosnieuws.nl more than 300 maintenance employees of Alitalia had a clash with t
40 Bardoman : Easy stereotyping aside, the Alitalia uber-mess has little to do with the national propensity for dramatization. Alitalia has been used as private pr
41 Post contains images LifelinerOne : And the story continues today... Yesterday the unions broke off the talks with AF-KLM because they accuse AF-KLM of dictating this merger rather than
42 76er : Today dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad quotes an angry Spinetta: "Loss making activities MUST be terminated. It seems like no one in Italy want to fac
43 Bongodog1964 : IMO AF- KLM would be wise to walk away from this one. They appear to have successfully managed their affairs over the past few years; which with the F
44 Post contains links Art : He's started: Centre-right coalition leader Silvio Berlusconi said Air France-KLM's offer for flagship carrier Alitalia SpA is "inadmissible" and cal
45 Beaucaire : Roberto Maroni,a former Minister of Berlusconi,compared Cyril Spinetta with the former French comic's actor Fernandel ,just adding that the jokes of F
46 Boeing777/747 : Mr. Berlusconi might own a fortune but that doesn't say anything about his IQ and his capabilities to run a country. Italy shall elect and deserves t
47 Art : It is looking less likely that the AF/KL offer will be accepted by all who need to accept it for the deal to go through. If AF/KL walk away I doubt t
48 Acelanzarote : This seems to be a mess in the making, AF-KLM may well end up walking away time will tell I guess. Seems the Itatlians don't really want any outsiders
49 RobertS975 : Of course! As soon as I can be confident that AZ will still be there, I will book 3 biz class roundtrips BOS-FCO for this coming October.
50 Post contains links Bardoman : Again, it's not that easy. Pride and emotions play no role. Berlusconi is a smart businessman, but he's putting his brain to serve his own interest r
51 Bennett123 : If I was running AF-KLM, I would be starting to wonder if buying AZ was a smart idea. The fact is that AZ is losing shed loads of money, that is why t
52 ZRH : If I were AF I would of course not negotiate but dictate because AF does not need by all means AZ but AZ needs money desperately. Spinetta was not ar
53 Beaucaire : Spinetta has never had an arrogant style of management and is to me one of the very best French managers . Yes I do sometime criticise Air France - bu
54 Post contains images LifelinerOne : I agree! It's also the best way to approach the Italians who are still not recognising the problems surrounding their national carrier. When Spinetta
55 Beaucaire : I do love Italy but think Italians don't deserve Berlusconi... It's just that the opposition is so weak,he's so rich so he can brainwash via his TV ch
56 Pihero : We need a much clearer picture than the one we have now. There probably is a *diktat* from AF/KL on this merger. The fact that they have asked for a s
57 ZRH : For me Berlusconi is a stupid moron and obviously criminal. You could vote for anyone but not for this guy.
58 Post contains links Bardoman : It looks like Alitalia's CEO (former? It seems he's resigned) said the only thing that can save the company is an "exorcist"!!! http://www.corriere.it
59 Pihero : God ! What a tragedy ! Let the vultures in, now !
60 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Let's continue here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3915080/
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