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US Airways To Receive Two Ex-332's From Swiss?  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10144 times:

I have searched for this on google and done a thorough search on A.net but can only see very limited information...

I was reading the below threads about Swiss disposing of 2 A330-200s and the other thread about US Airways' engine deal with Rolls Royce and in both threads someone has mentioned in conversation that US Airways is taking the two A330-200's that Swiss are to dispose of...
2 A332 Leaving LX (by FlyTUITravel Mar 9 2008 in Civil Aviation)
US Selects RR To Power A330 Fleet (by Raggi Mar 14 2008 in Civil Aviation)

Does anyone have any further information on this?

I am curious to know, when they are due to arrive and what routes they are supposed to be covering? It seems a little weird they would acquire two used A330-200's ahead of the large order of 332's that are due to arrive next year.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would doubt they are being used to fly the new PHL-China routes, as this would really be stretching the range. Im unsure if they even have the legs to fly this route non-stop, especially westbound to China!

It maybe totally untrue, and that there are no ex-Swiss 332's joining the US fleet.

[Edited 2008-03-15 12:59:49]

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10118 times:

They could possibly be used for the 2 B762's that might be leaving the fleet as well

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10103 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Correct me if I am wrong, but I would doubt they are being used to fly the new PHL-China routes, as this would really be stretching the range. Im unsure if they even have the legs to fly this route non-stop, especially westbound to China!

Parker has been quoted as saying that if they can't find more suitable aircraft (i.e., A340s), they will start PHL-PEK with A332s in a very low density configuration until the A350s arrive.

As for these particular A332s, I don't know whether or not US is taking them.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9883 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
As for these particular A332s, I don't know whether or not US is taking them.

The delivery schedules as of 2 weeks ago (Kirby) is 6 332s in 2009, 6 in 2010 and 5 in 2011. That's 17 total. So unless 2 are being optioned off of the original 10 order, which I believe currently precludes any deliveries until at least 6 months after the first 350 is available, it's quite possible the extra 2 are the Swiss units, which were discussed as potentials during an Analyst Conference. I have heard the Swiss units are HB-IQG (275) and HB-IQP (366). Also, if US decides to try and get away with using a significantly weight reduced 332 for China (A very Bad Idea IMO), can they even get 2 from Airbus by say January 2009 for polar proving runs and a March start?


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9824 times:

It sounds like US is really in a conundrum with the China situation. Did they really expect to be able to locate 340s on the market for cheap?


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlinePowercube From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9795 times:



Quoting Whappeh (Reply 4):
It sounds like US is really in a conundrum with the China situation. Did they really expect to be able to locate 340s on the market for cheap?

I would go further and ask if they ever had any intention of running the route. Wouldn't a weight restricted 332 still have to make fairly regular tech-stops in, say, ANC? Furthermore wouldn't the same restrictions on a 332 drive the CASM way up? Who knows how high oil will be by the time US starts, running a low-density route of questionable demand seems a recipe for disaster.


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9778 times:

Aye. I'm usually a fairly large US cheerleader, but unless they have something up their sleeves (which they may), it is just starting to sound more and more like a bad idea.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

US is taking delivery of the 2 Swiss A332 this summer when they become available. IIRC they are going to replace 2 767's that are leaving the fleet. Unless something has changed that I missed. There was a thread on this about, I guess 3-4 months ago. These aircraft were to be delivered regardless of what they use for China. The China aircraft situation is something that occurred after they agreed to lease these A332 from the leasing company.

MD


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2117 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9687 times:



Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
have heard the Swiss units are HB-IQG (275) and HB-IQP (366)

It will be not those aircraft mostlikely HB-IQQ (322) and HB-IQR (324) as the planes mentione before feature 3 Classes and LX is in the process to increase it's F Class offering on all routes. The ones US will mostlikely receive are ex SN and LH birds that have a 2 class config 42C and 186Y seats. Both birds were first put into service early 2000. Will US upgrade the plane with a new interior?


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9676 times:

What is an Ex-332? An A332 that decides it wants to become something else?  Wink


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2117 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9659 times:



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
What is an Ex-332? An A332 that decides it wants to become something else? Wink

Error Big grin


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9589 times:



Quoting LXA340 (Reply 10):
Error

I disagree, I think this must be some sort of aircraft sociological or psychological phenomenon. The question is whether the A332s feel that they are perhaps a A342 (engine count envy), an A333 (size envy) or an A346 (engine count envy coupled with extreme size envy). Or perhaps they think the are a 787 or 777 (transvendorism)

Regardless, it warrants further research and probably the formation of a new academic discipline that probably should be callled aircraft transmodel and transvendor studies.

 hyper 



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

I have to correct myself. US will take delivery of 2 A330-200 in the summer of 2009 from ILFC, not 2008 as I said earlier. This is in addition to the new build A330-200's from Airbus. It is my understanding that these leased aircraft will come from Swiss, between May and July 2009 IIRC. The seating config of Swiss aircraft being different than what US plans is irrelevant, as the interiors will be changed over and the seat count can be changed very easily. Just wanted to correct what I posted as I have finally had a little more time to do some digging.

MD


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9243 times:



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 11):
disagree, I think this must be some sort of aircraft sociological or psychological phenomenon. The question is whether the A332s feel that they are perhaps a A342 (engine count envy), an A333 (size envy) or an A346 (engine count envy coupled with extreme size envy). Or perhaps they think the are a 787 or 777 (transvendorism)

Regardless, it warrants further research and probably the formation of a new academic discipline that probably should be callled aircraft transmodel and transvendor studies.

Nice... Smart alec  Wink



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9203 times:



Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 1):
They could possibly be used for the 2 B762's that might be leaving the fleet as well



Well i have heard these will go to US from LX 333 thread.

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 4):
It sounds like US is really in a conundrum with the China situation. Did they really expect to be able to locate 340s on the market for cheap?

Well knowing how cheap US is, then no. US needs to offer decent price bids in order to secure A340's. If not, then will not see 340's in US colors.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5551 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9142 times:



Quoting Powercube (Reply 5):
Wouldn't a weight restricted 332 still have to make fairly regular tech-stops in, say, ANC? Furthermore wouldn't the same restrictions on a 332 drive the CASM way up? Who knows how high oil will be by the time US starts, running a low-density route of questionable demand seems a recipe for disaster.

PHL-PEK is only 225 nm further than AKL-LAX, on which QF is currently operating A332s in a 36J/199Y configuration, so a "low density" configured A332 as describe above should in fact work for US, at least as a temporary measure pending the arrival of more suitable aircraft.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8104 times:

I thought US has rights to purchase new build A343s from Airbus as part of the A330 purchase.


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7969 times:



Quoting Powercube (Reply 5):
Wouldn't a weight restricted 332 still have to make fairly regular tech-stops


If they can get it up to MTOW, and at the lower-density spoken of, then it shouldn't be too bad.
Take CO's EWR-HKG, that actually pushes the capabilities of their 656K 772ER (91% of its max available range just for the GC routing!) than PHL-PEK would on a high-MTOW A332 (89%).

Quoting Powercube (Reply 5):
in, say, ANC?

That would make about as much sense as LAX-NRT making a tech-stop in DFW.  no 

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 11):
Or perhaps they think the are a 787 or 777 (transvendorism)

...that is about the funniest sh!t I believe I've ever read at this place!!! ROFL!  Big grin Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7868 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7358 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
I thought US has rights to purchase new build A343s from Airbus as part of the A330 purchase.

They do but they missed the window of opportunity to get them in time for the start of the PEK route.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7358 times:



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
Well knowing how cheap US is, then no. US needs to offer decent price bids in order to secure A340's. If not, then will not see 340's in US colors.

Can you show any instances where US has been unwilling to pay the going price for a A340. Please do not give a.net rumors of that as proof.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
I thought US has rights to purchase new build A343s from Airbus as part of the A330 purchase

I believe the A340 on order will arrive after China service is due to begin.


User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

How about asking some of their Star Alliance friends? UA used SK birds when their planes were in maintenance from IAD, didn't they?

How about both SQ and LH renting them one 340?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineRB211TriStar From United States of America, joined May 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Why would US opt for the A343 and not the A345 if they were going to spend all that money on new metal?

User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6602 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):

Can you show any instances where US has been unwilling to pay the going price for a A340. Please do not give a.net rumors of that as proof.

Bob, look all the threads and you will see that US has let several A340's go to other carriers when they could have had them. The AC 345 examples are my first listing followed by their 343(X) examples. They let them go.

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCberflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6428 times:



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 11):
The question is whether the A332s feel that they are perhaps a A342 (engine count envy), an A333 (size envy) or an A346 (engine count envy coupled with extreme size envy). Or perhaps they think the are a 787 or 777 (transvendorism)

Now THAT made for a good laugh... thanks!  hyper 


User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6328 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
I believe the A340 on order will arrive after China service is due to begin.

I was unaware that they had any A340s on order. I know they have rights to change some A330s to A340s, but was unaware it had happened. As Airbazar stated, the window has expired to make the change in time for the China start up.



JLB54061
25 DTWAGENT : I will say this. US has been using their A332's for PHL-SJU and CLT-SJU routes for the cruise lines and spring breakers. Now I would think they would
26 Post contains images BA744PHX : A333's not A332's they are not in operation as of yet
27 DTWAGENT : Sorry. I thought they were. Thank you for correcting me. Chuck
28 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Ah, but will you be laughing when these aircraft start saying that they have a fundamental right to vendor change operations as part of passenger fun
29 ConcordeBoy : Because the A345's massive deadweight renders it horrifically inefficient on routes outside of the C-market, relative to what the cost of running A34
30 MCOflyer : They should order now Bob. You and I both know that. If US can get 332's with RR engines, A350's, and 332's from Lx then they can order new build 340
31 Flighty : I think it will go like this. They will operate A332 PHL-PEK. Yes, certain internet posters will believe the flights to be ill advised. But they will
32 ScottB : With oil at or above $100/bbl and the U.S. economy apparently headed into recession, there is no room for airlines to operate routes for "status" or
33 Flighty : They would be the discount player, no question about it. But US-China business traffic should remain pretty constant through a recession. We're not g
34 Gigneil : A new aircraft order isn't necessary. If they don't get leased 343 lift, then the 332s only have to run PEK for a month or two. They can swap 332 deli
35 BAW716 : First, PHL-PEK is stretching the legs on the A332...by a lot. How low you do you have to go (sorry for pun) on the A332 before it can make PHL-PEK? T
36 Gigneil : Its not THAT far of a stretch for a Trent 772B bird. 6000nm on 6650nm still air is not ideal, but not undoable. NS
37 Captaink : I sounds like it is, but considering that other airlines fly A332s on rather long routes as well, similar in length you look at the miles, the A332,
38 Centrair : I believe the furthest A332 route operated was AF's 3 weekly frequency on CDG-NRT (5256nm). This was dropped and they increase capacity using a 772ER.
39 Gemuser : Not even close! QF is currently doing AKL-LAX, 5652 nm. The QF aircraft is in a 36J/199Y config and I have not heard of any payload restrictions on i
40 Etops1 : the swiss a332 will be coming online in 2009. they will first go to ilfc then us will lease them out. they are not replacing 2 767. these 2 767 will r
41 MCOflyer : I still am waiting fr Bobnwa to reply to my answer in reply 30 and 22. I believe i have presented enough evidence to support my facts proving that US
42 Gigneil : You could also reply to mine in 34, where I did react to your post. A new aircraft order is not necessary. They can get new A340s delivered in May 09.
43 Bobnwa : Yes you did answer and I stand corrected. bob
45 Viscount724 : QF also uses the 332 SYD-BOM (5482 nm), over 200 nm further than CDG-NRT.
46 MCOflyer : Why pay more when you can pay less? Kinghunter
47 Centrair : WOW! Are there restrictions on the flight? What are the winds like on the outbound and inbound flights? Are they stronger, weaker or the same as Nort
48 SunriseValley : The quoted 6750nm is likely to be max passenger load. The westbound ESAD JFK-PEK is about 6200nm so PHL would be about the same . For what it is wort
49 MCOflyer : I think US missed on a lot of opps to buy A343's. If the 332's can do it then cool, but will they need more ETOPS training? Kinghunter
50 Gigneil : First of all, The 332 can hold in the meantime. They already have ETOPS 180. Second of all, you have no way of saying that those planes were availabl
51 MCOflyer : I think I do when I say AC does US's MX and is in the * Alliance plus they could have gotten them for a good deal. They had a chance to get those. I
52 Post contains links Gemuser : I asked about this over on the Australian Aviation thread and had this reply (No 125) from member Airnewzealand, who is an AKL based QF F/A who curre
53 BP1 : Great, but when should we expect to see the A340-500's on the ramp? Regards, BP1
54 Centrair : Makes me wonder why other A332 operators haven't tried longer haul flights like QF?
55 LXA340 : As the flights get wieght restricted if you push the range too far.
56 A330323X : They don't. They did such a bad job with the first batch of 330s (taking *way* too long, so US had to park planes that ran out of time, and cancel fl
57 Seabosdca : The A332 has a very shallow payload/range curve relative to most widebody airliners. It can only fly 4300 nm with maximum payload, but you can get a
58 N1120A : Actually, I believe it was the other way around.
59 MCOflyer : That is almost in direct competition of the 763ER and 757 on certain routes. Kinghunter
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