Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
MIA-based Start Up Airline Requests Incentives  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

Rumours have been going around in Miami, and on these boards, about a group of investors wanting to begin a new MIA-based airline offering service between Miami and Latin America, as well as domestic. It is rumored that the airline will be called Eastern Airlines (and that the investment group has already secured the Eastern name). The airline does not plan to be a low-fare airline, but a full service carrier more in line with Virgin America.

Whether or not this airline gets off the ground or not is one thing (IMO, I don't think they ever will, but I never though Eos, Maxjet, or Skybus would launch either), but the unnamed airline, this past week, sought $1M in local incentives from the county and Florida.

http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/...ida/stories/2008/03/17/story6.html


a.
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Well, logically, the first step in organizing a new airline is getting incentives from the local government to assist with start-up costs.

However, given AA's large number of frequent flyers to/fromt the Miami area, "Eastern Airlines" will definitely have their work cut out for them - especially now in this $100+ barrel of oil-era. Unless someone is looking for a tax write-off for a sure-fire failure, a la "The Producers", I can't really see a new airline coming into the market at this time taking on "Goliath".

Good luck - they'll need it!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6303 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):

However, given AA's large number of frequent flyers to/fromt the Miami area, "Eastern Airlines" will definitely have their work cut out for them - especially now in this $100+ barrel of oil-era. Unless someone is looking for a tax write-off for a sure-fire failure, a la "The Producers", I can't really see a new airline coming into the market at this time taking on "Goliath".

I think the market clearly exists for a second airline to hub at MIA. The problem, as you say, is getting from "Phase 1" (start-up) to "Phase III" (having a strong customer base), because "Phase II" (watch AA aggressively do everything they can to stop Phase III) will be killer.

Then of course, there's the fuel costs issues - a huge hurdle but one that may go away in two years. Though, on the other hand, now is a better time than ever to establish yourself against AA because AA is running very low on resources and even lower on employee morale, and is in quite a volatile condition.



a.
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

Wonder what the equip will be?


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6090 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Then of course, there's the fuel costs issues - a huge hurdle but one that may go away in two years.

I know this is off subject but did I miss something that may lower the price of oil in two years?


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3139 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

Of the 15 largest metro areas with airline hubs, only MIA, DET, and SEA have just one airline claiming a hub or "superfocus". (Not counting regional airlines.) MIA would probably have the largest international feed, and a very large air market. MIA is ripe for a new entrant.

AA manages to allow competitors in New York, Dallas, and Chicago. I would expect them to compete, but on how many fronts would an airline like an all out battle? UA has this problem in DEN, LAX, SFO, and DC.

-Rampart


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5844 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
I think the market clearly exists for a second airline to hub at MIA.

With clear 20-20 hindsight, regardless of the metrics of why UAL first fooled around with, and then squandered, the position it acquired from PAA, it has always been apparent that UAL was making money on even the minimal routes it retained until they were withdrawn, namely, GRU and EZE. The economics of maintaining the crew bases notwithstanding, it is conceivable that they could have operated a focused, niche operation at MIA to serve the high income routes, even with crews based at IAD, ORD, SFO or LAX. In other words, service the point-point MIA traffic they continued to enjoy despite AAL dominance of the connecting traffic, offering flights as they did to UAL hubs via either the TED product to ORD/IAD/DEN, and the mainline product to SFO/LAX, or mainline to all. At least they would have maintained a locally supportable feed from MIA south to the major points to hold rights, slots, etc. without relying only on thinner segments feeding directly to IAD and ORD. Then again, not being a UAL analyst or manager, I cannot understand their rationale although I am sure they make total sense to them. My point is that UAL might not have pulled the plug so completely on MIA and survived to fight another day into Latin America with Star feed at Concourse J, as originally envisioned.

Then, too, DAL probably missed the boat to compete at MIA, where they had an historic foothold in terms of a customer base along with FLL, when they passed on taking the PAA LAD when they took JFK and FRA. By now, they, too, might be utilizing not just J but H and J combined in, yes, a smaller more focused operation than AAL but nonetheless complimentary to ATL. They would not be needing MIA o/d as much as UAL to support South American operations but they could have done something with the former PAA franchise.

AAL's permanent acquisition of the MIA-LHR route was always a thorn in the side of the UAL purchase of the PAA MIA LAD operation, but by now UAL could have switched or restored the MIA-LGW secondary certificate over to LHR. Yes, hindsight is always so clear.

However, moving ahead to the current and future prospect for a competitor at MIA:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 5):
Of the 15 largest metro areas with airline hubs, only MIA, DET, and SEA have just one airline claiming a hub or "super focus". (Not counting regional airlines.) MIA would probably have the largest international feed, and a very large air market. MIA is ripe for a new entrant.

Yes, but DTW and SEA do not have a fully competitive airport less than 20 miles away, namely FLL, that serves a significant portion of the available local market. Also, FLL does have a locally based LCC that provides north-south feed, namely, NKS. It has been apparent over time, beginning during the pre-historic "regulated" days before 1979 that NEA and DAL were able to carve a very nice domestic niche away from EAL and NAL by siphoning South Florida traffic in North Miami-Dade and Broward counties away from MIA to FLL. Does anyone recall the ad campaigns NEA ran on the late news of WTVJ with the late Chuck Zink promoting NEA flights from FLL?

Fast forward: NKS and FLL are positioned to offer AAL and MIA continued, vigorous competition. There is a reason the LCCs have taken FLL as their own: location and landing fees, not necessarily in that order.

If MIA is going to drop landing fees as incentive for a focus or mini-hub at MIA, while trying to complete the ever ongoing North Terminal project bottomless pit, they are going to really open a can of worms, to say the least.

We had heard that DAL was thinking about targeting 738s in conjunction with Sky Team feed at MIA last year but they did not (yet) follow through.

To summarize, given the current oil market (which could again change up or down) and all the other factors at play, location, the high current MIA landing fees, negotiating lower fees (which, if not offered to all, would really anger the likes of COA, DAL, NWA, USA, et. al.), FLL (and the potential for its near-term expansion), it would seem that the deck is stacked against a new entrant at MIA.

Perhaps we can speculate about something else for MIA. What about the entry of a current LCC or legacy for a focused north/south operation at MIA, such as the possible DAL entry of last year? With DLH buying into JBU, what about JBU? Or, interestingly, VRD? As MIA sorts out its gate shuffle, and as the North Terminal is now moving forward again (our fingers are crossed), there will be room it seems on F and G for someone who is interested. There may be other likely suspects, or perhaps no one.

In any event, it appears that anyone interested would have to not only offer a domestic service to key points but also either an (a.) Caribbean-Central America-Shallow South America, or (b.) that, and/or Deep Latin America service. Only the legacies have the equipment to handle (b.) and GRU-EZE-SCL type markets, and, the alliance heft to really make something work, unless the new US entrant works out arrangements with the likes of TAM or AVA (LAN is already taken by oneworld, of course).

Interesting conversation, and it would be great to hear everyone else's speculation.

[Edited 2008-03-17 07:43:55]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5797 times:



Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 6):
As MIA sorts out its gate shuffle, and as the North Terminal is now moving forward again (our fingers are crossed), there will be room it seems on F and G for someone who is interested. There may be other likely suspects, or perhaps no one.

How much room is there now? It seems like there's a fair amount of room on E also during much of the day (does AA lease those gates? I seem to remember that ticket counters at MIA are all common-use but I can't remember if gates are as well).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5706 times:



Quoting LV (Reply 4):
I know this is off subject but did I miss something that may lower the price of oil in two years?

There's some evidence that the recent run-up in oil prices is due in part to speculation, and there may be a price "bubble" that could burst in the fairly near future. How much of the run-up is speculation vs. demand (China, India, etc.) vs. the fall in the dollar (from a US perspective) seems to vary depending on who you listen to, but there seems to be a growing consensus that we could see a short-term price drop in 2008 and more modest increases after that.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 6):
If MIA is going to drop landing fees as incentive for a focus or mini-hub at MIA, while trying to complete the ever ongoing North Terminal project bottomless pit, they are going to really open a can of worms, to say the least.

The gist of the summary - the link is to a summary, the full article requires a subscription - is that the incentives would not be for service per se, but for the job creation that would come from having the airline based at MIA. Presumably if some existing airline was to offer to move a comparable number of jobs to MIA they'd be eligible for the same incentives. Most of the money is actually from the State of Florida and the article says the rest is from Miami/Dade (presumably the county general fund, although the article isn't clear on this.)

Frankly, it still doesn't sound like that good of an idea to me, it would seem that the state and county has to have better ways to spend their money right now than subsidize the creation of an airline.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Question? Why does it allways have to be FLL or MIA. What about MCO or TPA. I know TPA has alot of terminal and gate space sitting wide open just waiting for someone to move in. And that airport is a lot easier to get around then FLL and MIA. MIA is down right bad. About as bad as LHR. And FLL is so full of air carriers year round you can not move around in that airport. Your walking on top of people all the time just to get from your gate to bagagge claim or ticket counter through TSA (another story there) to your gate area that has no food court to speek of.

I say if your going to start a new airline do it in TPA or even MCO for that matter. Another airport that as alot of gate space sitting open.

Chuck


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5438 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

This "Eastern" will undoubtedly also have to deal with VX, whom we would expect to be fairly firmly settled in MIA by the time "Eastern" starts flying. True, we don't really know what sized station MIA is planned to be by Virgin -- anywhere from a spoke terminus for 1 or 2 flights to SFO to a major focus city connecting the US mainland with the Caribbean (and Latin America?) -- but it certainly could be a factor.

Let's check back on this subject in about a year and see what's going on, then the real speculation shall commence!

bb


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Considering their plans to fly to South America i see their available options as very limited.

Well, need to say that unless they buy the rights from another airline, flying to Brazil will be not possible while 3 more Brazilian airlines join the game (one is expected, RG, a second is possible, Ocean Air. But i can't even see a third one). So forget about Brazil during the next 3 years.

Argentina, they have some available frequencies, but at time they have everything set up, probably other airlines will apply for the rights to fly more.

Paraguay and Uruguay, i don't think so. But can be the option, but yields are not so good.

Peru, Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador, competition is stronger and some like Colombia does not offer available frequencies any more.

Chile, i'm not sure about bilateral rules.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5448 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Argentina, they have some available frequencies, but at time they have everything set up, probably other airlines will apply for the rights to fly more.

We haven't seen it yet... I suspect the days of Argentina frequencies being worth anything are over.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Chile, i'm not sure about bilateral rules.

It's open skies, but there probably isn't room for another carrier.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5406 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 9):
Question? Why does it allways have to be FLL or MIA. What about MCO or TPA.

Main reason is that greater Miami is a much larger O&D market than Tampa Bay or Orlando. South Florida SMSA is about 5.5 million, compared to 2.7 for Tampa-StPete-Clearwater and 2.0 for Orlando. Admittedly SMSAs aren't perfect, and to be full comparable to the South Florida SMSA we'd probably want to add Manatee, Sarasota, and at least part of Polk counties to Tampa, but that still leaves Tampa Bay quite a bit smaller than the MIA/FLL catchment area. Same thing if you add Daytona Beach and the Space Coast to Orlando-Kissimmee.

Also, South Florida has a substantially larger Latin American population (in absolute terms and as a percentage of population) than Tampa Bay or Greater Orlando, so you get more of the "visiting friends and family" outgoing traffic.

True, a new carrier could use TPA or MCO as a hub to connect various US cities to Latin America, but since they'll be competing not only with AA at MIA for connecting traffic but every other US carrier as well (particularly CO at IAH), there's a strong argument to be made for going with the larger originating traffic market in Miami instead.

Of course, they have to win that business from AA, which isn't going to be easy either...

MCO would be a better choice than TPA in my opinion, since MCO is a destination in its own right. TPA is not a tourist draw on the same scale as MCO or MIA. That's nothing against Tampa - I lived in Tampa for 8 years, it's a great place - but for Latin American visitors it's just not as big a draw as MCO or MIA.


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3139 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5343 times:



Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 6):
Yes, but DTW and SEA do not have a fully competitive airport less than 20 miles away

Good point. You wouldn't include TOL or FNT as viable alternatives to DTW? Of course, DET has had service before, from WN. None of these could support any large operation. WN wanted to use BFI at one point, but of course impractical for a large operation.

Still, consider the large airports in cities with more than one airport. ORD, JFK, LGA, SFO, LAX are all airports that have more than one hub or "superfocus" operation per airport, while other airports in their respective regions also have hub or focus operations (MDW, EWR, OAK, LGB).

-Rampart


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5275 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
How much room is there now? It seems like there's a fair amount of room on E also during much of the day (does AA lease those gates? I seem to remember that ticket counters at MIA are all common-use but I can't remember if gates are as well).

All gates at MIA are common-use as well.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5202 times:



Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 3):
Wonder what the equip will be?

If they ever get that far along, the optimal equipment is a 73G or A319 fleet, because it's gives them as optimal coverage as you can get within the Americas for a narrowbody.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
We haven't seen it yet... I suspect the days of Argentina frequencies being worth anything are over.

I disagree. We just have a situation right now were airlines are short on aircraft, and dedicating two to Argentina isn't priority right now. Those frequencies will be become a hot ticket again in a few years, IMO. AA - for example - could add a third daily MIA-EZE and MIA-COR. Delta could add JFK-EZE. CO could add EWR-EZE. Maybe US Airways will want to look at PHL-EZE.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 9):
Question? Why does it allways have to be FLL or MIA. What about MCO or TPA.



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 13):
Main reason is that greater Miami is a much larger O&D market than Tampa Bay or Orlando. South Florida SMSA is about 5.5 million, compared to 2.7 for Tampa-StPete-Clearwater and 2.0 for Orlando. Admittedly SMSAs aren't perfect, and to be full comparable to the South Florida SMSA we'd probably want to add Manatee, Sarasota, and at least part of Polk counties to Tampa, but that still leaves Tampa Bay quite a bit smaller than the MIA/FLL catchment area. Same thing if you add Daytona Beach and the Space Coast to Orlando-Kissimmee.

The Miami-Palm Beach metro area, in terms of square mileage of land, is smaller than both Orlando and Tampa. Miami metro is only about 1,300 square miles of inhabited land. Tampa is nearly approx. 2.200 land square miles; Orlando is more than double Miami at more than 3,700 square miles of land. Though Miami's metro stretches for a very long distance, while being extremely narrow, rarely more than 10-12 miles wide. Nonetheless, given the lack of airline service to airports like SRQ, MLB, and DAB, TPA and MCO do offer important alternatives to residents in those areas.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 13):
MCO would be a better choice than TPA in my opinion, since MCO is a destination in its own right. TPA is not a tourist draw on the same scale as MCO or MIA. That's nothing against Tampa - I lived in Tampa for 8 years, it's a great place - but for Latin American visitors it's just not as big a draw as MCO or MIA.

The problem with MCO - and why Latin carriers and flights have struggled sans Copa and AeroMexico - is that South Americans still view Orlando has a day-trip from Miami, not as a vacation in itself. Coach buses leave by the dozen from Miami-area hotels every morning to take South Americans to Orlando and back in one day.



a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5175 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I disagree. We just have a situation right now were airlines are short on aircraft, and dedicating two to Argentina isn't priority right now. Those frequencies will be become a hot ticket again in a few years, IMO.

Agreed, but isn't the bilateral expanding again?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3139 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4984 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
The Miami-Palm Beach metro area, in terms of square mileage of land, is smaller than both Orlando and Tampa. Miami metro is only about 1,300 square miles of inhabited land. Tampa is nearly approx. 2.200 land square miles; Orlando is more than double Miami at more than 3,700 square miles of land.

A metro area's market or potential is hardley ever measured in area, so I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. Density? Because if that's the case, Miami metro, with smaller area and larger population, has greater density, even more reason for a choice of airports, and for a good market potential in close proximity to MIA.

-Rampart


User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4704 times:



Quoting LV (Reply 4):
I know this is off subject but did I miss something that may lower the price of oil in two years?

Yes...OPEC stated last week that they would not allow prices to fall until there was a change in the White House...not their words but mine taken from their statements.

Oil man in White House = High Oil Prices...


User currently offlineNwafan20 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4449 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Of the 15 largest metro areas with airline hubs, only MIA, DET, and SEA have just one airline claiming a hub or "superfocus". (Not counting regional airlines.)

DTW is hubbed by Northwest and its regionals as well as Spirit.....


But either way, with all the talk of mergers and consolidation, isn't it the worst time to try to create a new airline? Sometimes I see the same people cheerleading for consolidation and then turning around and arguing why a new startup is needed...



Long live the Red Tail! | WMU Flight Science major
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4359 times:



Quoting Nwafan20 (Reply 20):
DTW is hubbed by Northwest and its regionals as well as Spirit.....

Spirit no longer hubs at Detroit, is in the process of (or already has) closing their pilot and FA bases in Detroit, and will be reducing operations to three gates this year.



a.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4075 times:



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 19):
Oil man in White House = High Oil Prices...

Was Carter an oil man?


User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3762 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 22):
Was Carter an oil man?




No....and while we can all agree that Carter is one of the best Statesmen of our time, an incredible man and an amazing American..his presidency was, alas, a shambles. He inherited demise and barely survived the same.

Look at the oil status during George H and again with George W.....same pattern. I remember being in NC during Clinton's first term...gas had dropped to .89 a gallon.

OPEC hates the Bush family...plain and simple.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3751 times:



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 23):
No....and while we can all agree that Carter is one of the best Statesmen of our time,



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 23):
OPEC hates the Bush family...plain and simple.

your politics is clouding your ability to think clearly.

I'm not sure how you could possibly say that OPEC would hate Bush when he has allowed the free market to work and has failed to develop an energy policy. The US is completely at the whims of OPEC which only translates into more money for them.

Political discussions belong someplace else so let's focus on the possible return of Eastern Airlines.


25 Davidlc3 : 1. I was repsponding to the posting of a fellow a.netter based on an article I read two weeks ago by the President of OPEC. 2. I agree that politics
26 Sflaflight : I always thought Virgin America should have been the one to fill that void in. Avoid long haul trans con flights (except connect SFO hub to MIA hub) t
27 Post contains links DL Widget Head : New Eastern Airlines - Any Info Available? (by JGPH1A Oct 10 2007 in Civil Aviation)? DL Widget Head From United States, joined Apr 2000, 1393 posts,
28 ConcordeBoy : um, MFW has both AA and NK... so how exactly is that "just one airline claiming a hub" for that metro? 73Gs, not 738s ...because that's where the maj
29 Rampart : Sorry, I somehow overlooked Spirit as an airline with hubs. (Nwafan20, you actually quoted me, not MAH4546.) Not sure how this new "Eastern" will loo
30 DTWAGENT : Thank you for this information. chuck
31 Drgmobile : Sounds like a really poor idea to me for the following reasons: 1) Most international traffic to Latin America isn't coming from Miami, its coming THR
32 Rampart : And we've seen new airlines enter markets as #2 or #3 and are seeing sustainability. B6, WN, FL. Sure, it's competitive. But if it were impossible to
33 Yellowtail : Manages? U kidding right?..WN is like a thorn in AA's side in DAL
34 Jfk777 : In spring of 1991 on the day United took over from PAA at LHR UA operated 4 747's, one from each IAD, JFK, MIA & SFO. UA had "leased" the route from
35 Jfk777 : In spring of 1991 on the day United took over from PAA at LHR UA operated 4 747's, one from each IAD, JFK, MIA & SFO. UA had "leased" the route from
36 AirNZ : Valid indeed, but what is the difference please between that and so-called 'launch aid' to Airbus??? One is local govt non-repayable incentives to st
37 PRAirbus : Really bad timing...a looming recession, skyrocketing price of fuel, high landing fees at MIA. Who would think such a venture would work??? It would f
38 Rampart : I figure that I cover my bases by understating. You are of course correct. And to US at PHL and BAL, UA at SFO, etc. -Rampart
39 MAH4546 : Depending on the market, most of the traffic is coming from Miami. Miami is 49% of all USA-Bogota traffic; more than 70% of all USA-Medellin traffic;
40 BAW716 : It is going to take $1 BILLION dollars in resources to take on AA in Miami. The Miami hub is AA's second largest hub (larger than ORD) next to DFW. AA
41 MAH4546 : Before other people start correcting him, MIA is AA's second largest mainline hub, but third largest total hub including regional operations.
42 ConcordeBoy : MIA is a strong hub for AA, but not by the wildest stretch of imagination is it a fortress for them... nor are just about any of the largest hubs for
43 MAH4546 : Correct. Let's not forget that AA faces non-stop competition on the majority of their international routes from Miami - including all three to Europe
44 B752OS : Thanks to globalization, those numbers are sure to shrink as other areas in the U.S. see more and more LatinAM traffic and business, not just Miami.
45 Cubsrule : MIA is going to be a tough not to crack for any domestic carrier because its location means longer flights than most cities of comparable size. Atlan
46 Jfk777 : A new "Eastern" would get killed by AA like the original did. Miami has to be operated by a well capitalized multi-hub airline willing to give it the
47 MaverickM11 : Plus DL and CO can beat AA hands down on domestic connectivity out of ATL and IAH respectively. AA owns the local South Florida-Latin America market;
48 B752OS : There may be a lack of space to add new runways, MIA is not exactly located out in the sticks like DEN is for example and has plenty of space to grow
49 MaverickM11 : I was talking about the new one they recently added.
50 MAH4546 : US Airways flies FLL-PHX; NK flies FLL-LAX. Like it or not (and I know you don't), Miami is a two-airport town. Not sure if you are implying that MIA
51 B752OS : I was not implying they have space to grow, I was saying how MIA is the opposite of DEN, where out there they have plenty of space. Actually I will r
52 MAH4546 : I understand what you are saying, and marketshares will shrink, yet overall traffic continues to grow. Despite that, however, Miami's share of traffi
53 PVD757 : I wonder if PVD has any chance to be part of the new EA. It'll be fun to follow the development if it.
54 MAH4546 : I'm curious to see how much "development" will follow. I don't think we'll hear much until next fall, and that the investors will keep a close eye on
55 ExFATboy : Ah, terminology error on my part, I was only talking about the "O" side...for outbound local traffic, Miami is a much larger market than Orlando. (An
56 LipeGIG : Brazil also. Miami is less than 35% in number of flights, and considering that people connects to MCO, LAX and other places thru MIA, probably the ma
57 MAH4546 : I doubt that is true. Miami easily represents at least a third of USA-Brazil traffic (and, in 2005 at least, I know for a fact they did). AA's MIA-GR
58 B752OS : While I will not argue with you on the numbers for those countries, I am taking a guess at saying that in the next 10-15 years the market from the U.
59 B752OS : While I will not argue with you on the numbers for those countries, I am taking a guess at saying that in the next 10-15 years the market from the U.
60 MAH4546 : I'm not arguing with you there. MIA's share of the traffic will decrease, but the total traffic will continue to increase, and the room for extra car
61 Rampart : In my original statement, see above, I was looking at the top 15 metro areas. MIA, SEA, and DTW stood out. (I was since corrected that NK hubs at FLL
62 MAH4546 : You were not corrected. You were right in the first place. Spirit has closed their Detroit hub.
63 Rampart : I stand corrected on my correction! But I was still wrong on MIA, when I didn't consider FLL, in the same metro area, as an airport with a hub, NK. -
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Start Up Airline: MetJet posted Wed Aug 22 2007 19:10:32 by AllegiantAir
Lufthansa To Start-up Airline In India? posted Sun Jul 16 2006 12:15:20 by Johnny
Start-up Airline posted Wed Jun 28 2006 12:07:58 by Dw9115
New Mexican Start Up Airline posted Fri Jan 13 2006 01:36:33 by RvA340
Great Start Up Airline Idea 4 Anyone Who Wants It posted Sat Feb 2 2002 19:39:15 by Iainhol
New Start Up Airline "Vacances Air Columbus" posted Thu Jan 17 2002 04:31:57 by BWIA330
Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline. posted Wed Sep 5 2001 01:51:52 by BA
New Start Up Airline Looking At Trinidad Market posted Tue Aug 21 2001 07:39:19 by BWIA330
Slogan Wanted By The Lord For New Start Up Airline posted Mon Feb 19 2001 23:42:35 by Cedarjet
Start-up Airline Idea posted Fri Mar 31 2000 17:59:59 by BizJet
Lufthansa To Start-up Airline In India? posted Sun Jul 16 2006 12:15:20 by Johnny
Start-up Airline posted Wed Jun 28 2006 12:07:58 by Dw9115
New Mexican Start Up Airline posted Fri Jan 13 2006 01:36:33 by RvA340
Great Start Up Airline Idea 4 Anyone Who Wants It posted Sat Feb 2 2002 19:39:15 by Iainhol
New Start Up Airline "Vacances Air Columbus" posted Thu Jan 17 2002 04:31:57 by BWIA330
Top 2 Aircraft For A Start-up Airline. posted Wed Sep 5 2001 01:51:52 by BA
New Start Up Airline Looking At Trinidad Market posted Tue Aug 21 2001 07:39:19 by BWIA330
Slogan Wanted By The Lord For New Start Up Airline posted Mon Feb 19 2001 23:42:35 by Cedarjet