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Ticketing Prices  
User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

OK, so I booked BDA-BOS-BDA back in February for departure on Mar. 31, return Apr. 6. and paid $335 for the round trip. Out of curiosity, I had a look at the DL website to see what it would cost for the same trip if I booked it today and the price had gone up to an astounding $1157!!!
(All tickets economy, BTW....)

Now I realize that oil prices are through the roof, but for a 772-mile, less than 2-hour flight this is freakin' ridiculous. (I'm glad I booked so far in advance)....

How on earth can they justify these prices? The guy in the seat next to me who just paid $1157 to sit in a cramped 738 is going to get the same Sun Chips, Biscoffs and sodas as me.....


'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Supply and Demand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand


User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2301 times:



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
Supply and Demand.

That may very well be true, but to me it looks more like price gouging.



'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2289 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 2):

That may very well be true, but to me it looks more like price gouging.

Or trying to be profitable? Just a thought.  Smile


User currently offlinePDXBJV From Turkey, joined Apr 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2264 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 3):

Or trying to be profitable? Just a thought.

I thought thats what the people up front were for??



TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Because it's BDA! You know everyone goes with suitcases full of cash to hide in a nice offshore bank account  Wink

DL publish 29 fares in my GDS, from USD 144 o/w for a 14 day advance purchase Y seat, to USD 1010 o/w for F. The various categories include min/max stays and advance purchase rules and of course class of travel.



Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2216 times:



Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 5):
You know everyone goes with suitcases full of cash to hide in a nice offshore bank account

If that's the case, where's mine?



'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

This is exactly what we were talking about here: Delta Flights Went Up $500 Overnight - What? (by Ansett767 Mar 17 2008 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2110 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Thread starter):
Now I realize that oil prices are through the roof, but for a 772-mile, less than 2-hour flight this is freakin' ridiculous. (I'm glad I booked so far in advance)....

How on earth can they justify these prices?

Because people will pay them.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 2):
That may very well be true, but to me it looks more like price gouging.

I believe it's only price gouging when you have no choice but to pay for it. If you don't want to fly Delta, there are lots of other carriers happy to have your business.

Tom.


User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Get use to it. The value of the dollar is dropping like a dead fly!

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Delta also recently announced that they are dropping their seasonal summer service LGA-BDA which normally started in May, in response to the high fuel prices. It's mentioned in this recent BDA news item.
http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?Se...nID=205&ArticleID=36897&TM=58612.7


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2032 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 2):
That may very well be true, but to me it looks more like price gouging.

...or could it perhaps be that Delta needs someone to subsidize pax traveling on loss-leader $335 roundtrip fares?

Quoting Kmh1956 (Thread starter):
The guy in the seat next to me who just paid $1157 to sit in a cramped 738 is going to get the same Sun Chips, Biscoffs and sodas as me.....

What's really wrong with this proverbial picture is not that this is an example of price-gouging but rather the huge disparities in what pax pay for the same mediocre service (on a good day) to fly from the same point A to the same point B on the same flight on the same day in the same cabin. Such pricing shenanigans got the U.S. legacies in trouble well before 9/11/01 gave them a conveniently timed excuse on which to blame their malaise -- and it is getting them in trouble once again (only this time, the well-timed excuse is fuel prices). But then again, no one ever has been able to justifiably accuse the U.S. legacy airlines of being managed on the basis of common sense and realities that should be self-evident.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2023 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 3):
That may very well be true, but to me it looks more like price gouging.


Or trying to be profitable? Just a thought.

one or both flights are probably near 100% load factor.

Higher prices have to subside the loss leaders that most airlines put out to generate publicity or increase market share.

U could probably fly to Australia cheaper than that, so why don't you all, we need the foreign exchange.

With big announcement on V Australia routes, launch dates & silly launch fares 27 March (26 March USA time), you'll probably be able to fly round trip west coast to Australia inc all taxes/charges for under AUD$1000 (today USD$920 - who know what the US dollar will be worth soon-many commentators/economists here are saying it will soon be AUD$1=USD$1).

Watch as other carriers like NZ, FJ & QF put some sales fares out there as well.


User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1972 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
there are lots of other carriers happy to have your business.

Unfortunately, in March, the only direct flight to BOS is with DL.....otherwise you have to fly through New York....



'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1964 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, in March, the only direct flight to BOS is with DL.....otherwise you have to fly through New York....

Therein lies part of the answer....convenience.

And it's not price gouging. You have a wide choice of options, no one is forcing you to buy the DL ticket. If you don't like the price, buy somewhere else.


User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

The cheapest published fare is with UA via PHL. It is precisely USD 10 cheaper on a round trip before taxes.

To BDA you really don't have a whole lot of choice.



Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineTranceport From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

My partner works as a ticketing manager, and after years I still can't understand airline fares. There's no doubt logic behind them and it's all about supply and demand, but I've never understood why there can't be one fixed price for every seat on any given route with the price set to be profitable. I don't conceptually understand the idea that 'people up front' are the revenue generators for an airline. Why carry coach passengers at all?

Obviously if it were this simple, the airlines would have a simple fare structure. Does competition create the need for all the different fare buckets?

I have no knowledge of this topic, but the only thing that makes some kind of sense is that air fares must be structured so that you have to look at fares as an average instead of individual.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 1818 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 2):
to me it looks more like price gouging.

Price gouging cannot exist unless there is a complete monopoly in place. That is not the case here.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, in March, the only direct flight to BOS is with DL.....otherwise you have to fly through New York....



Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 15):
To BDA you really don't have a whole lot of choice.

The market of flights from Boston to Bermuda is not defined by the number of non-stops. I just did a quick search on Travelocity and found BOS-BDA flights on USAirways, Delta, JetBlue, American and Continental. There is plenty of choice -- you can save money if you're willing to make a quick stop in New York or Philadelphia.

Quoting Tranceport (Reply 16):
There's no doubt logic behind them and it's all about supply and demand, but I've never understood why there can't be one fixed price for every seat on any given route with the price set to be profitable.

It's because demand (and, to a lesser extent supply) for travel on a fixed day and time fluctuates in the days/months prior to that flight. If every seat was priced at the same level, and that price was just a tad too low, there is a good chance that all of the seats would be filled, say, a week or so before the flight itself -- thereby leaving last-minute travelers out of luck. At the same time, pricing the seats just a tad too high could result in a very empty flight come the "big day." Airlines, like most businesses, are (or at least should be) profit-maximizers, not just profit-takers. With load factors approaching 85% recently, they seem to be doing a good job of filling the seats by pricing them as to what the market will bear -- each and every day.

Quoting Tranceport (Reply 16):
I don't conceptually understand the idea that 'people up front' are the revenue generators for an airline. Why carry coach passengers at all?

It's not that they're the sole revenue generators for the airline, but they are clearly the principal revenue generators for the airline, and can be the key to making or breaking a flight's profitability. It all has to do with ease of marketing combined with opportunity cost. For example, on a high-traveled route, it's probably going to be easier to market 15 first-class seats (to wealthy individuals/business travelers, of course), at $1500 per seat, than it would be to market 50 coach seats at $450 per seat. Essentially, the airlines can virtually guarantee the profitability of a flight if it fills the front cabin. However, they would be blowing a huge opportunity cost if they just left the coach cabin empty. As I indicated earlier, they are profit-maximizers, not just profit-takers. Even if they already have a profitable flight by filling first class, why would they forego the additional revenue that the coach passengers would bring in?



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1749 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 17):
Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 15):
To BDA you really don't have a whole lot of choice.

The market of flights from Boston to Bermuda is not defined by the number of non-stops. I just did a quick search on Travelocity and found BOS-BDA flights on USAirways, Delta, JetBlue, American and Continental. There is plenty of choice -- you can save money if you're willing to make a quick stop in New York or Philadelphia.

don't Zoom UK offer low price tickets from JFK to BDA ?

Ok, you'd have to fly on separate tickets & do separate check in at JFK, so in other words, if u want convenience, pay up or shut up !!!


User currently offlineNZA320 From New Zealand, joined May 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1713 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Thread starter):
How on earth can they justify these prices? The guy in the seat next to me who just paid $1157 to sit in a cramped 738 is going to get the same Sun Chips, Biscoffs and sodas as me.....

Simple answer, because the guy beside you was willing to pay $1157 to get on that flight. The reason airlines increase ticket prices as the day of the flight approaches is that there will always be people who will need/have to be on the flight out that day. For most it will be some sort of family emergency or a business man needing to get to a last minute meeting etc. So these people really have no choice but to buy these high airfares simply because they need to get somewhere fast.

Its also called price elasticity of demand. Which is an economics term measuring how much the quantity demanded of a good responds to a change in the price. So leisure travellers, where price is important will have elastic demand, meaning that any change in price has a large change in quantity demanded. But last minute travellers who need to get somewhere fast, will have inelastic demand, where any change in price will only have a small change in quantity demanded. More info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_%28economics%29

Quoting Tranceport (Reply 16):
There's no doubt logic behind them and it's all about supply and demand, but I've never understood why there can't be one fixed price for every seat on any given route with the price set to be profitable.

One part of it, is price discrimination, where the airline charges different prices to different consumers. E.g. Leisure travellers will be looking for a cheap ticket, wheres business travellers are looking at the times of flights so they don't have to spend any more time away then they have to, and price isn't as important. So the airline will have X amount of low fares and X amount of high price fares on each flight. Its just a way for an airline to be able to fill the plane with some cheap tickets and still make a profit off higher paying fares.



Hovering is for pilots who love to fly but have no place to go.
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1643 times:



Quoting NZA320 (Reply 19):
The reason airlines increase ticket prices as the day of the flight approaches is that there will always be people who will need/have to be on the flight out that day.

U didn't mention that cheaper seats may have sold out & the airline might not be increasing fares(the fully flexible Y class was probably alwys that fare), just cheaper tix gone.

Interesting thing seems to be happening now, in OZ with short business trips.

The outbound sector is often purchased as the cheapest, but the return sector is often the more flexible ticket & higher yield, so airline does well in 1 direction only.

In reality, how many people on flexible tickets, need the flexibility, or how often are these tickets actually changed.

A much better model for businesses purchasing tix is to buy the cheapest possible tix & if a different return flight is needed occasionally, then maybe just pay whatever for those few times.

With the recession starting to bite big time, expenditure on travel will be one of the 1st areas to be scrutinised by company accountants.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1632 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 20):
In reality, how many people on flexible tickets, need the flexibility, or how often are these tickets actually changed.

In my experience, often. On at least half of the business trips I take each year (and usually more), I end up changing my return flight. I would imagine this is the case for most business travelers in the US.

When I travel on business abroad, however, I usually need less flexibility -- I do, on occasion, need to get that last-minute ticket a day or two before departure, but my international trips usually have a set duration and there's no need to return a day/hour earlier or later.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1573 times:



Quoting Tranceport (Reply 16):
There's no doubt logic behind them and it's all about supply and demand, but I've never understood why there can't be one fixed price for every seat on any given route with the price set to be profitable.

They can, it's just a very bad way to maximize overall profit, which is the whole point of the enterprise.

Quoting Tranceport (Reply 16):
I don't conceptually understand the idea that 'people up front' are the revenue generators for an airline. Why carry coach passengers at all?

They're not the only revenue generators, but they're the main profit generators. The margin on premium travelers is a lot higher than economy. However, without economy, you can't afford to fly the premium passengers. An airplane small enough to carry the typical premium passenger load only has vastly worse operating economics than a mixed premium/economy aircraft. Biz jets cost far more per seat than any business class airline seat. The only way you can make it work out is to have a route with such high premium class demand that you can fill an entire large aircraft (MaxJet, Silverjet, etc.) or you split the aircraft seating to match the demand.

Profit comes from the premium travelers. Revenue to make the whole operation possible comes from economy and premium.

Tom.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1525 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 21):
In reality, how many people on flexible tickets, need the flexibility, or how often are these tickets actually changed.

In my experience, often. On at least half of the business trips I take each year (and usually more), I end up changing my return flight. I would imagine this is the case for most business travelers in the US.

so then do u buy a cheap outbound with a flexible inbound ?


User currently offlineTBYO787 From Colombia, joined Feb 2008, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1501 times:



Quoting Kmh1956 (Thread starter):
How on earth can they justify these prices? The guy in the seat next to me who just paid $1157 to sit in a cramped 738 is going to get the same Sun Chips, Biscuits and sodas as me.....

This happens in every flight, in every airline, in the world. even low cost airlines.

It is impossible for an Airlines to sell a plane for 150 USD ow per seat.

Inventory control is set for many classes with different prices from usd 150 to 1000 for example. This varies by market.

Revenue managers control the prices to be available in each flight keeping control how much they are making flt x flt.

TBYO787


25 REALDEAL : the high fare mentioned partly subsidises the loss leader fares. It's ll about price elasticity. The best yield revenue managers fill aircraft to as
26 Ssides : It's usually a flexible round-trip ticket. It's much easier (and usually cheaper overall) to just buy a flexible round-trip ticket a day in advance t
27 REALDEAL : not with all one way fares these days in OZ !!! Don't think there are even round trip domestic Australian fares anymore. With V Australia launching i
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