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Delta Joins UA+US In $25 For 2nd Bag  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Seems to be taking hold in the industry.

Quote:
Delta Air Lines announced yesterday that it will follow United Airlines and US Airways in charging passengers $25 for a second checked bag starting May 1. The move comes as US carriers are scrambling to contend with rising fuel prices and a weak domestic economy and looking for "revenue enhancement" measures to help offset escalating expenses.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=3%2F19%2F2008


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7444 times:

Interesting. With those three moving towards the $25, can AA, NWA, and CO be far behind?


Hey Swifty
User currently offlineAmccann From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7422 times:

I honestly think this is a smart move on all airlines parts. But then again I have always been a firm believer that the cost of airline tickets should be calculated on a simple formula of how much you and your baggage weigh, how much space you and your baggage occupy, and how far the flight is going. Then add to that some sort of built in profit factor or competition factor due to other airlines on that route. But that would never happen, so the $25 for a second checked bag works for me. I never check a second bag so this doesnt bother me, but it does bother me when I see people checking two or three bags and not paying for the extra fuel they are causing the aircraft to burn.


What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7379 times:



Quoting Amccann (Reply 2):
I never check a second bag so this doesnt bother me, but it does bother me when I see people checking two or three bags and not paying for the extra fuel they are causing the aircraft to burn.

Can I get a discount on your airline on account of the fact that I weigh 140 pounds and never check a first bag?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2807 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7186 times:



Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
Can I get a discount on your airline on account of the fact that I weigh 140 pounds and never check a first bag?

No but on my airline we'll be serving you an inflight meal or two so you make more money for us next time.  Smile


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 760 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7179 times:



Quoting Amccann (Reply 2):
but it does bother me when I see people checking two or three bags and not paying for the extra fuel they are causing the aircraft to burn.

The number of checked pieces are not directly related to the fuel needed to carry them. Unless airlines reduce the actual allowed weight, this $25 "patch" is not aimed at reducing the fuel bill but it will help lowering costs.

When you force people to only check-in one piece you're reducing the handling work. The check-in agent will only need to take care of one bag -> one tag and thus the process will be quicker. And that's also going to reduce the amount of pieces handled, thus reducing baggage handlers work and reducing the number of pieces that end up miss-handled.

They're trying to offset the high fuel bill with lower costs at other areas. It's a cause-effect but not that directly related as you point out


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7064 times:

For two airlines, US and Delta, to follow United so quickly, means the bean counters at all of the airlines have been studying this idea. I think it's great. I'm sure we'll see more "menu" pricing ideas from the airlines.

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7048 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 5):
The number of checked pieces are not directly related to the fuel needed to carry them. Unless airlines reduce the actual allowed weight, this $25 "patch" is not aimed at reducing the fuel bill but it will help lowering costs.

Half true. It won't help lower costs. It will only help bring in more revenue. More money doesn't equal cost cutting. Cost cutting would mean restricting the weight of the bag or number of bags without the option to pay for a "penalty" if you go over the limit.


User currently offlineGivenRandy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7015 times:



Quoting Amccann (Reply 2):
I honestly think this is a smart move on all airlines parts.

Same here. Will probably (indirectly) encourage more fuel efficiency than any protesting would. Might temporarily get some people taking more onboard, but I HOPE they will think about it and start taking less with them. Yes, more than one change of clothes, but not like half a house that I have seen many, many times (for a five day jaunt).


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6994 times:



Quoting Amccann (Reply 2):
but it does bother me when I see people checking two or three bags and not paying for the extra fuel they are causing the aircraft to burn.

I eat Kosher and never pay for a BOB sandwich, can I get a refund from delta for not having to pay the extra weight of those sandwiches? I also bring 2 bags yet never bring anything for the overhead bins, can i get a refund on that as well???


STOP NICKEL AND DIMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 729 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6992 times:



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
For two airlines, US and Delta, to follow United so quickly, means the bean counters at all of the airlines have been studying this idea. I think it's great. I'm sure we'll see more "menu" pricing ideas from the airlines.

True that. I am sure it was being studied by everyone waaaay before UA announced the change. They probably kicked that into high gear after the UA announcement.

I am also fairly sure that everyone has already decided what they are going to do and is just waiting for an opportune moment to make the announcement.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1436 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6886 times:



Quoting JFK69 (Reply 9):
STOP NICKEL AND DIMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see it as nickel and diming. If you check only bag as would be customary for ONE person this is a non-player. If you choose to utilize more space in the cargo hold and carry more baggage than is customary there is now a fee for this. If you eat dessert at restaurant they charge you more than if you choose not to. Also, there are cases where if you are FF you do not have to pay the fee. So if you are loyal you get a pass and if you are intent on "nickel and diming" the airlines with cheap tickets then you will have to pay the fee. Not sure if you have noticed but the cost of operating the airplanes has gone up significantly due to fuel cost. Should the airlines be expected to operate at a loss so you can carry more bags than Tensing Norgay on the way up Everest?

I am all in favor of passing along some of the operating cost to the customer. The employees have given so much they can ill afford to subsidize another economic downturn. Put this one on the consumers and not on labor for change.

Also, so many said they would never fly UAL after they announced this change. With DL and US joining can the other carriers be far behind? Sounds like many will be riding Amtrak coast to coast if they are true to their word.


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

I wonder if this rule is across the board including PMM's.
Also I am afraid this will lead to even more ridiculous amounts of carry on being on board. It amazes me what some people will carry on the plane unnoticed. That should be monitored closer IMO.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6830 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 5):
The number of checked pieces are not directly related to the fuel needed to carry them. Unless airlines reduce the actual allowed weight, this $25 "patch" is not aimed at reducing the fuel bill but it will help lowering costs.

You may be correct.


What I love is how these so called legacy airlines think they offer a better product than LCCs, like WN and FL.

I was in the main Crown Room at ATL last week and it was pathethic.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6810 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 13):
was in the main Crown Room at ATL last week and it was pathethic.

Compared to WN's ???? lounge???


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6754 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 11):
I don't see it as nickel and diming. If you check only bag as would be customary for ONE person this is a non-player. If you choose to utilize more space in the cargo hold and carry more baggage than is customary there is now a fee for this. If you eat dessert at restaurant they charge you more than if you choose not to. Also, there are cases where if you are FF you do not have to pay the fee. So if you are loyal you get a pass and if you are intent on "nickel and diming" the airlines with cheap tickets then you will have to pay the fee. Not sure if you have noticed but the cost of operating the airplanes has gone up significantly due to fuel cost. Should the airlines be expected to operate at a loss so you can carry more bags than Tensing Norgay on the way up Everest?

I am all in favor of passing along some of the operating cost to the customer. The employees have given so much they can ill afford to subsidize another economic downturn. Put this one on the consumers and not on labor for change.

Also, so many said they would never fly UAL after they announced this change. With DL and US joining can the other carriers be far behind? Sounds like many will be riding Amtrak coast to coast if they are true to their word.

I understand your quote in regards to dessert at a restaurant except for the fact that is something that you have always paid for. a second bag was never a "luxury" per say, it was part of your ticket. In the days of TSA and other bullshit procedures, it makes it hard to pack a way we did years back. My wife is someone who is forced to carry a fair amount of medicine with her. Much of this stuff is put in her overhead which would otherwise be used for clothes.......that means I am forced to take an extra bag sometime. I am someone who flies about 18-22k miles a year so I may choose to go after medallion this year.

I am not every situation. But look at what the airlines are doing....they have taken away every single "luxury" (free food, Blankets, Friendly service in some situations" and then raised the prices...the fact that they are trying to squeeze every penny out is nickel and diming in my mind. I know the one job of an airline is to get you from Point A to point B....but sometimes they don't even do that. If Oil prices do go back down, what are the odds the airlines will dump the second bag fee? slim to none IMHO because once is is there people will pay it.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6692 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 11):
I don't see it as nickel and diming. If you check only bag as would be customary for ONE person this is a non-player. If you choose to utilize more space in the cargo hold and carry more baggage than is customary there is now a fee for this.

The flaw in that way of thinking is that the fares already includes all those "extras" so by removing the extras, people who don't use them should actually be getting a cheaper fare and that is not the case. If you're going to apply that to luggage then you have to apply it across the boad, including the lard ass who spills into my seat. At 155 pounds I should be paying half of what the 300pound gorilla next to me is paying. When you don't apply the same standard across the board, then it's called NICKLE AND DIMING.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6683 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):
Compared to WN's ???? lounge???

youre missing the point...WN doesnt deliver anything but they also dont promise anything...airlines like DL consistently like to think they offer a higher product or service than do the LCCs, they dont.


User currently offlineGpbcroppers63 From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6625 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
airlines like DL consistently like to think they offer a higher product or service than do the LCCs, they dont.

There's a simple solution to your problem: Fly WN or another airline that doesn't disappoint you. Don't fly DL and then moan.



According to one of my colleagues, my problem is that I'm addicted to travel!
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10998 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6595 times:

Two reasons this trend sucks:

1) you can't take your skis or snowboard into the cabin, and you can't put them in your first luggage. Therefore, it will now cost $50 more to fly to the slopes.

2) people will simply take more and bigger bags into the cabin to avoid the fee. Do we REALLY want more crap in the overhead bins?



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6571 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
2) people will simply take more and bigger bags into the cabin to avoid the fee. Do we REALLY want more crap in the overhead bins?

Which in turn will lead to more delays as some asshole tries fitting his mother in law up there and causing people to take 45 minutes to load a MD88.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quick question that is kind of off topic, but it still has to do with weight and needed fuel. My roommate was arguing with me a couple weeks ago that nonreving is extremely costly for an airline and that OH and DL employees should pay more (the only airline he ever worked at was MQ). He argued that it costs a lot more in fuel and catering for an employee to nonrev, and I disagreed with him, and would the fuel to hold a couple extra passengers really be that much that it would make a difference? Sorry for the off topic, but it's been bothering me for a while. I will say that as long as this policy makes airlines a little bit of extra revenue, I don't mind it. I rarely even check one bag, so it won't effect me, but as stated above it might irk some golfers or skiers. I guess we'll see how it pans out.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6530 times:



Quoting GivenRandy (Reply 8):
Yes, more than one change of clothes, but not like half a house that I have seen many, many times (for a five day jaunt).

While I can appreciate that, at times that just doesn't work when you are working sale trips/ expos & conventions when you need fresh outfits for each day and different suits, etc for business dinners each night..particularly when these trips run 5-9 days at a time, and a different city each day/ night.


User currently offlineChicagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6505 times:



Quoting JFK69 (Reply 20):
Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
2) people will simply take more and bigger bags into the cabin to avoid the fee. Do we REALLY want more crap in the overhead bins?

Which in turn will lead to more delays as some asshole tries fitting his mother in law up there and causing people to take 45 minutes to load a MD88.

I am not sure about this. If you are charged for any checked bag, it's probably true--people will lug stuff into the cabin and the gate agents will have nightmares dealing with the filled-up bins. But it's hard to check one bag and then say that the 40-pounder right next to you is going as carry-on. In a situation where you are checking in at a counter (as you are obviously forced to do with 1 bag), it is harder to avoid checking the bags that should be checked... yes some people will try everything to avoid the fee, but the operational impact is probably not as bad as you think.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6503 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 19):

1) you can't take your skis or snowboard into the cabin, and you can't put them in your first luggage. Therefore, it will now cost $50 more to fly to the slopes.

I believe Skis are exempt from this along with other unusual items. It least it is for United's revised policy. I didn't check on DL or US.


25 Bicoastal : Most people like this have reached the frequent flyer level that will allow them the two bags. Others will learn to build loyalty at one or two airli
26 Panamair : The presence of a lounge is already a differentiator; or the presence of a wider seat or an elite boarding line or a separate check-in line, etc. Gra
27 Mcdu : I don't really agree due to the way the pricing model has changed. If you look at the tickets this affects it is the non-refundable cheapest tickets.
28 RwSEA : CHANGE IS .... What you pay to check your second bag. ------- All kidding aside, I'm sure we'll see the rest of the industry follow suit in short-orde
29 SLCUT2777 : When are airlines going to start charging $25.00 to take a 20"-22" roller-board in for the overhead bins?
30 Mir : Not really, since passengers are not weighed - an average weight is used to calculate the load. You and the gorilla are both counted as the same aver
31 Airbazar : True but what if I don't want any of those things, which I don't. Can I substitute it for a second bag? See what I mean? You're either a full service
32 Post contains images Acey559 : Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense, but yet he still argues with me about it....
33 Mcdu : Again, I disagree with you. Adding a $25 charge for a second bag on a NON-REFUNDABLE ticket is not an in between move. It is actually the passengers
34 JFK69 : My friend, they will charge us to use the lavatory soon enough.
35 MMEPHX : True words are often spoken in jest! Here's what I don't understand, airlines are charging us for 2nd bags, extra legroom, "premium" seats, food, pri
36 Post contains images CB97 : The problem with this theory is that instead of 100 average sized suitcases, you will have 50 super sized ones which will be close to max weight, or
37 Yellowtail : And $25 for the kids stroller too.
38 Evan767 : I'm not disagreeing with you, but often times it's more than just 1 person non-revving, especially on Delta. However, I know a majority of those "non
39 Widget1580 : Do not forget your FREE bag of mini-pretzels on flights over 750 miles! Blankets and pillows are rarely put in the a/c.. usually just enough for F. P
40 Cubsrule : I wonder what the hidden costs of this policy are. Are there hidden costs in more people checking bags which are close to the weight limit? Are there
41 Post contains images Flynavy : Did mommy and daddy pay for your membership, too? [Edited 2008-03-19 14:40:53]
42 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I still firmly believe that free IFE brings in no additional ticket premium in economy. I think this is one of the few places where F9 is actually ah
43 Rwy04LGA : You can afford to go skiing but can't afford a lousy $25 for taking your skis? You can always take up cross-country and get there yourself, that'll c
44 N917me : This whole 25.00 crap is crazy. If airlines would just raise ticket prices to cover the increase in fuel costs. No instead they raise fares only to ha
45 Mcdu : Would you rather pay individually for these items?
46 PA110 : Good analysis, but you didn't take it to its logical conclusion... Reduce the amount of pieces, thus reducing the number of handlers required to do t
47 Mir : That's what I figured, but it was easiest to base my calculations on just one person. The fuel burn penalty is linear, so just increase by a factor o
48 SNCntry32 : Does UA, DL, US, AA charge for the exit seats like NW does? Or 'Coach Choice' seats? Why dont they do this? NW must make a fourtune off ma and pa who
49 UsAirways16bwi : the airlines are struggling financially, well most are. Thats a fact. If they want to charge for a 2nd bag, let them, they need to make more money. If
50 Mir : They do. If I'm not mistaken, they charge extra for the entire economy section starting from the exit rows forward. I'm not sure how they do it on pl
51 KingAirMan : CO Does Not charge for exit seats, Reserved for elite customers until within 24 hours of departure
52 Jeffrey1970 : How long will it be before airlines start charging you for checking any bags at all? I understand that these are tough times for airlines, but at some
53 Atmx2000 : To the extent it reduces the number of passengers packing multiple bags instead of one bag, or checking in all bags, it will reduce the costs. It wil
54 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Of course it won't, because airline ticket costs aren't based on what it actually costs to operate the plane from Point A to Point B, but rather, wha
55 CitrusCritter : Precisely, last year I took a flight to visit my parents and I used two suitcases...one with my normal clothes (just a small roll-on that I guess I'd
56 Lufthansa411 : Realistically, tagging baggage is not all that time consuming. It is one of the easiest parts of the check in process. All the tags print at one time
57 Post contains links Iloveboeing : These airlines have absolutely no right to call themselves "premium carriers." And yes, I know US calls itself a "low-cost carrier" and sometimes a "l
58 Ocracoke : It has been said that 60 years ago, the average price for a long distance/international flight was about 1/3 the price of a new Mercedes Benz. If and
59 SkyguyB727 : I can give you two examples of two other industries using the "charge for services" concept. 1-- A major restaurant chain (at least in the Midwest) e
60 SkyguyB727 : Apparently you have forgotten PeoplExpress. They had no free baggage allowance. They charged a fee for every checked bag.
61 Gpbcroppers63 : I personally don't see what all the fuss is about. Here in Europe we have much more restrictive baggage allowances and we all survive. On many carrier
62 JFK69 : Congratulations for the airlines coming back to reality and not raping a customer on something that is a need nowadays...that need is flying. With th
63 Cubsrule : If every 2nd bag gets carried on and winds up having to gate checked, that's going to increase costs. That's an extreme example, but I (still) don't
64 DTWAGENT : I can see this hitting the families hard that don't fly that often. With me I'm not that worried about it, because I fly Business class or first for t
65 Ocracoke : That is what is so great about the market economy. No one is forcing me onto an aircraft. I assume that is the case for you as well. If I need to get
66 JFK69 : You are right a free economy is what makes our country so great, but But, what about after 9/11 when the government was forced to bail out our wonder
67 Cubsrule : Do I smell an argument for (re-)regulation?
68 JFK69 : Sure why not, did ya see how happy people looked back when they all wore suits. The regal age of aviation.
69 Planetime : Is the $25 for extra bag for domestic only or both domestic and international?
70 RobertS975 : The law of unintended consequences: they have to charge for a lot of extra $25 bags to make up for a single $500 fare that books elsewhere to avoid th
71 Bicoastal : [quote=Planetime,reply=69]Is the $25 for extra bag for domestic only or both domestic and international?[/quote United is not charging the fee for int
72 MSYPI7185 : Why not put the smaller bag inside the larger one and check one bag? You would then have 1 bag! Please use you head when packing. This has been tried
73 Post contains images Airtechy : My suggestion would be....take the $25 bucks that you object to paying and buy a good book that teaches you how to pack. Jim
74 Floridaflyboy : Not only PeoplExpress. Even today, Spirit and SkyBus charge for all checked baggage, including the first piece.
75 Silentbob : If you (and others) want to pay an equivalent rate to what was charged when all of those "luxuries" were offered, I'm sure the airlines would be happ
76 DLOnur : This was officially announced yesterday internally at DL. $25 systemwide (domestic and international) for revs and non-revs. Those with DL status or f
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